Porsche 911 R

[NW76]

I am not sure, how many of you have seen this:

 

http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=976

 

Almost sounds like Porsche realized that a lot of there Cars are not really attractive to the ones that are looking for a real sports car / drivers car anymore... the 911 R might have been a right step in that direction - at a very high price though (in Germany most of them will be around 200k EUR ...)

 

 

Edited March 8, 2016 by NW76

[The Pits]

An interesting idea and I applaud Poesche for throwing the manual gearbox a lifeline after doing so much to kill it off with pdk only GT cars. The 911R, along with the GT4 is helping to make the manual gearbox cool again, a bit like vinyl, a retro curiosity for the connoisseur. 

However, I don't get the pdk-only or manual-only policy, it's still a shame you can't buy a manual GT3 or RS.

I don't buy the purity line on the 911R either, if Porsche were serious about that they'd have ditched the electric 4 wheel steering and fitted a hydraulic rack. Interesting to note that their Le Mans racers use hydraulic steering.

I am amazed that they're using the full GT3 RS engine but expected it to be very expensive when I read that. It's one for the 911 fanatic so not my cup of tea, I think it's crying out for a ducktail of some kind to differentiate it from a boggo Carrera 4 but no doubt Evo are already writing their ECOTY winners gush fest as we speak.

An interesting point was made about current 997 GT3RS prices being based on the idea that Porsche would never make another car like it again. I'm guessing this 911R will be too rare and expensive to alter that but it does raise questions about that assumption.

[TBD]

Its a nice marketing exercise, tailoring to the fans of "classic" Porsche and sportscar values. But, as such it will always be a salon racer. A GT3 RS will drive circles around the 911R, making it look like it was standing still. No downforce where you need it, much slower shifts than the PDK, etc.

Though, on London (or Munich) streets the 911R just looks better.

But then, that is probably where the market is. 

[NW76]

It starts at approx 180k EUR here in Germany ... you guys are absolutely right: it looks too "normal" and crys out for some kind of ducktail like the 1980 RS had... surprised that the really put the RS egine in ... the GT3 RS was suposed to be the last ;-) ... looks like now the 991 R is the last ;-) ... or whatever follows after... in my opnion: as long as there is a market (and there clearly still is) they will come up with a naturally espirated engine ...  

Curious to see how it develops in prices... and if we will see a similar "appreciation" as in 991 GT3 RS values...

I am still happy that I went for an Exige V6 CR a couple of month ago (even with a 350 Sport coming out just a couple months later)... its a fountain of happiness ;-) ... can not imagine a 991 R could beat that feeling ;-)

[The Pits]

Yes they Exiges are very special to drive, I look forward to enjoying a good soak in my fountain of happiness soon!

 

[JayEmm]

I am pretty sure Preuninger and his team work very hard to get these GT3 programs working, I recall an interview with him where he said the decision was made fairly early on to go PDK because they could only really afford to develop a car around one gearbox, not two.

The 911 R will no doubt be quite collectible in years to come, and I am sure is great fun to drive. I do agree, it desperately needs a ducktail. Weird, as I am sure you can get a ducktail as an option on the normal 911...

[The Pits]

Porsche did develop a manual test mule for the 991 GT3 but chose to make it pdk only for reasons best known to themselves. I think at the time it was considered the way forward. Easy in London traffic, no stalling outside the nightclub, faster on the track, there simply was no obvious reason to continue with the manual at the time. Coupled with the projected small percentage of manuals ordered, Porsche simply didn't bother. To plead poverty is a bit absurd coming from one of the most profitable car makers in the world, I'm sure they would have produced a manual GT3 if they thought there was sufficient demand for it. They have since learned that there is a greater demand out there for manuals than they realised and have seen strong demand with the manual-only GT4 which I'm sure has contributed to this U-turn in company policy. It will be interesting to see where we go from here.

Me, I'm more of 'a fountain of happiness' kind of guy so it really doesn't matter what they do! I have never really wanted to own a 911 and the 911R has done nothing to change that.

[JayEmm]

I think the GT4 being manual only is two-fold - one to keep the "purists" happy, two to make sure it won't be as quick as the GT3 on paper or round a track.

Last time I checked you couldn't order a manual Ferrari, Lamborghini or new Audi R8 so Porsche are doing their best to hold onto the manual. Mercedes haven't put one in a performance car for years, neither have Jag (although they recently introduced one, not sure how well it's selling).

To my knowledge the Porsche GT team is a fairly small team, with a probably relatively limited budget compared to the rest of the company. 

I believe they also mentioned there hasn't been a 991 GT2 because the "GT" cars have always been RWD, and if you made a current turbo with 2WD it'd be slower... which defeats the point.

[Jacques]

I think it's a great looking car, and I am sure that with 500 hp is no slouch.

I find the seats a bit strange in that they seem awfully angular and Square, in contrast to the round exterrior.

I am sure that this Porsche is oing with making small special series cars, is working well in making buyers feel they are something special.

Thank goodness that Lotus never did the same with their mass produced Esprit

Jacques.

[NW76]

I am also happy to see that they hold on to their manual whereas most of the others have completely moved to the dual clutch. You can even choose between the rev match on and off for those guys who still want to heel toe it themselves ;-)

I am not a big fan of the seats either ... nevertheless this 991 is getting closer to what I would want from a sports car... but also moving it close into Ferrari 458 (my all time favorit, in particular as a speciale) or McLaren (thats one that I have never driven - not even for a test drive - but still very high on my list) territory ... where I probably would spend that amount of money ... maybe even w/o a manual option beeing available ;-)

Edited March 9, 2016 by NW76

[LF1]

The problem with this car like the other "desirable" Porsche is they were all sold before they were even announced. 911 being made, something like 40 for the UK and reserved for those on the dealer "GT Club". So although aimed at the purist, no purist can actually buy one. I read somewhere last week they were already changing hands for 500k, and they are not even built yet. 

This is where Lotus is great, although numbers of limited run cars are lower, compared to the numbers sold if you want one there is a likely hood you can (3-11, Cup 360, LF1, etc). And because real people can buy them they actually get used as intended which is surely the point of making these special driver's focused cars in the first place?

[C8RKH]

It's just another example @LF1 as to how the world in the west has gone bonkers with speculators looking to accumulate rather than enjoy.

I do not see the point in having a 911R stuck in the garage just for me to look at it, pat myself on the head for making an astute financial investment, and then keel over from a heart attack the next day and leave my accumulated wealth to others to enjoy and squander as they see fit. I mean, it's not as if I can resurrect myself and come back and enjoy it once I've gone.

The older I get the more I realise life is for living and the only asset I really need is my home - somewhere to live that is 100% mine and not a penny owed to anyone. 

For the price of a 911R I could have a 311 road and race, an Evora 400, and a lifetime of fun and enough Nurburgring trips and alpine pass holidays to make me dizzy. Or, I could have a lump of cold metal, plastic and rubber in the garage that I looked at and patted every now and then. Which would be the "richer" experience I wonder.

[JayEmm]

Having crazy residuals is not a bad thing for the company. It's a bad thing for the people who want to enjoy these cars, but when trying to build a Ferrari-level brand image it's important. Ferrari are known to make many less cars than they could actually sell - but they always want people fighting over them to maintain exclusivity.

I think the moment interest goes back to 10% we'll probably see a lot of these classics being released back into the wild.

[LF1]

I naively called up to see if I could get one a while back and had the usual conversation. They then offered me the choice of 2 virtually zero mile GT4 cars for 104/107k respectively. I laughed and explained that is exactly the problem with porsche at the moment. Whilst quietly kicking myself for not grabbing one in November when I had the chance - my theory was that everyone that wanted and could afford one has by now. I figured come January when mine would have arrived the bubble would have burst, oops... maybe we should have gone for it eh @The Pits?

Although that said, I'll probably get a call in a few months saying someone has pulled out and I can get a build slot if i get a deposit down in the next 24 hours?

[NW76]

Have they stoped or even limited the GT4 or the GT3 RS ?? ... I was at the Zuffenhausen factory (for business ;-)) just a couple of weeks ago and saw a lot of GT4s and GT3 RS on the line still ... asked the guid and he didnt know of any limitation for either just said that there only is a certain allocation per year due to "capacity" but that they will continue to produce  until the model will be discontinued (he didnt know when that will be ...)...

If this is true this will probably sooner or later lead to more realistic selling valuations ...

I clearly prefer the Exige to the GT4 though ... even if I would get one at list, it doesnt attract me ;-) ... 

And I am clearly with C8 btw ... a sports car is meant to be driven and enjoyed not just to brag and pet in the garage ....

Edited March 9, 2016 by NW76

[The Pits]

You've outgrown that luke warm, soft core stuff now Tom, you're a proper Caterham racer now1

I have to say that paying over £100k for a GT4 still doesn't look like the smartest move right now. Firstly I don't believe the car to be worth that much, certainly not so much more than a brand new Boxster Spyder (which I would prefer personally). Secondly you're going to lose money at £100k unless perhaps if you mothball the car for 20 years. It works really well as a proposition at £75k when you can thrash the nuts off it for 5000 miles and make a small profit at the end of it. But to pay north of £100k for one is an act of desperation, something I just don't have when it comes to the GT4. There are delivery mileage cars on ph for under £100k so that £107k car would have cost you the best part of £10k straight away Tom. Onwards and upwards! High time we got our V6s out on track together.

[LF1]

I was referring to grabbing that buil slot I was offered last year we joked about going 1/2s on and flipping - looks like we could have made 30k. But I would have wanted to try it out on track first, that would no doubt have cost 10k!

would be madness anyone buying one for 100k now, surely the manual 911 shows there are going to be GT cars with a manual going forward. Not so much hype around them at the moment, guessing prices will come down now anyway - but I've been wrong on that before. 

I'm done with Porsche now anyway - fancy a Mclaren 570 - bit exclusive and a daily. Heard a rumour a track focused and maybe manual version on the way. Although very much looking forward to the Evora roadster. 

it is high time, Spa in a couple of weeks - still loads of room if you're up for it? 26th with BaT.

[The Pits]

I don't know what's happened to you Tom, but I like it!

Will investigate the Spa weekend but quite a few visits being planned already. I'm very keen to do Brands GP now Arun has proven that a V6 can get down Paddock Hill without scraping the splitter! 

[LF1]

We'll have to follow him round because I could not manage it. We are booked at brands GP 29th June - BaT. Taking the Caterham for the evening session too. 

[NW76]

Porsche 991 R for 1.250.000 €

mobile.de: http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?id=223251213

How many much faster 311 do I get for that prize? Crazy ...

 

[Jacques]

I think humans are different to each other, so that one person wants the 911R for driving it on twisty roads, another wants it for bragging rights in the Company lunch canteen, and another wants it for only looking at it in a garage, only wanting that, and only seeing the joy in that. Well, one might even go so long as to say, that that buyer may even get scared of even the thought of driving it.

Still: a bit silly in my view. On the other hand, I am sure Porsche is highly speculating in this, adding some (needed?) sport into the main stream cars. hoping that it will sell even more of this, possibly even 4*4's and other strange conceptions. Buy some Krugerrands instead.

As they say: the last coat does not have pockets.

Jacques.

[JayEmm]

£1m for a special edition 991? Dreamer I think.