Komotec 460 or SSC TVS1900?

[toshers]

Seriously considering one of these upgrades. Trouble is which one do you go for?

There are positive arguments for both, let's face it there are no real downsides to either upgrade, but which would you spend your hard earned on?

I'd be installing a full 2bular race manifold kit with 200 cell cat at the same time. Would either car be quicker than the other?

[Crouchy]

Personally I would go for the SSC but I would wait and see what komotec launch next. rumour has it there may be a turbo conversion coming in the not too distant future. no idea how true it is though and I can't see it personally but who knows.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Crouchy

[Trevsked]

I like the idea of the SSC kit as it makes sense to me and is a lighter intallation. I would imagine the KT460 is faster and a little more reliable delivering power at track temps but have heard little from anyone in the UK about the SSC so nothing to go on there. Be nice to see a power graph on the SSC.

 

Trevor.

[Hangar 111]

Answering your specific question, the EX460 car has more power and torque, so will be quicker.  It is chargecooled, so will keep that power all day long on track.  There are 45 cars worldwide running the 460 kit now, with lots more running the previous upgrades.

EX500 is released early next year, it is engine internals so will not be cheap, but sets the ground for more beyond that.

Dave

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by Hangar 111

[French Frie]

Ex460 kit is also much dearer... the direct comparison should be the EX430, which should still be more powerful than the SSC conversion... in cold climates at least  !

[The Pits]

If Lotus don't pull their fingers out with the next Exige or I don't like the look of it for whatever reason I'm giving SSC a call.

I've seen Komotec '430' in action at Spa and, well, see for yourself. Flat out from La Source to Les Combes 2.46 onwards

I think there are still big question marks about how the DPM system will cope with a big torque increase, I think RACE mode might struggle and intervene too early. That of course applies to both upgrades.

It would be interesting to try both solutions. Let me know Hangar 111 if you'd like TLF to do an honest review?

[Gashead1105]

Hangar 111 don't have a demonstrator so far as I know, think you would need to find a generous owner. 

[NW76]

1 hour ago, The Pits said:

If Lotus don't pull their fingers out with the next Exige or I don't like the look of it for whatever reason I'm giving SSC a call.

I've seen Komotec '430' in action at Spa 

I think there are still big question marks about how the DPM system will cope with a big torque increase, I think RACE mode might struggle and intervene too early. That of course applies to both upgrades.

It would be interesting to try both solutions. Let me know Hangar 111 if you'd like TLF to do an honest review?

Hi Jonny, 

I have the EX460 now a couple of weeks and had the same concern re the DPM ... it works just fine ... no issues at all... the software seems to fully adjust / correct for it.

I was in Spa just a couple of weeks ago and brought it down easily to a 2:51 at 3-4C outside temp and in traffic. It was just my second time there and I still was very careful (first time with the standard package - I ended up doing 3 min flat).

I had a friend, who is a pro, drive the car a couple of laps and he immediatly did a 2:47 in a lot of traffic. We bot think on a warmer day, with less traffic and at least for me with 100 laps more experience in Spa. You can get very close to a low 2:40 time.

Give it a go - but I warn you ... you will want to do it after you have tried it ?

Re the SSC kit - I have never seen a driving option w/o complains about major issues ... is there one anywhere in Europe that is regularly used hard on track (not just for posing and bragging)?!?

KomoTec has a demo car and I am sure they are happy 

 

[The Pits]

I have experienced what a bigger supercharger can do to Ford GT and the results are dramatic! Done properly it can be a good solution.

2.47 is a very fast time. The race CupR cars go just below 2.40 now so to get near them without the aero kit means serious speed before Les Combes. What were you hitting there?

[NW76]

235 kmh is what I did on a regular basis ...  my friend hit 240ish ... GPS measured ... he carried more speed through Eau Rouge ...

 

Agree on the larger SC - the done properly for me is the question mark ... 

[550superfast]

2min 53 secs with traffic on the same day for me, running standard power.

The KT460 cars did not appear/look to be 110bhp faster than my car when they went past. I would have thought 110bhp in 1100kg would be very very noticeable.

I did ask Komotec for a passenger lap, but after saying yes, they were not really forthcoming.

Still interested in one of these upgrades though!

[NW76]

.

[NW76]

Jonny and Gary, 

you both are seriously quick and very skilled drivers. I think Gary, you probably were the fastest standard powered street legal Exige V6  that day and its as always if you run against a slower driver in a EX460 you won't see the full potential of the car. It is still not the easiest car to drive at the limit and even more so with more power. 

@Win911 was there as well and he was doing a 2:48 in traffic with the KT test car, as you can see below. That was much closer to what the car can do then my 2:51. 

For me the EX460 upgrade has really transformed the car to the next level. I would not hesitate to do it again tomorrow. And no, KT is not paying me for advertising  ... I was very sceptical myself before I did the upgrade... 

You guys need to drive it and experience it for yourself. Or at least do a passenger ride - I will be in Spa again next year as soon as the season is open ... you are always welcome to ride shotgun ;-) 

I am also pretty sure a bigger SC will be available as an upgrade through KT at some point in time, but I much rather have them thoroughly develop that, then end up with a desasterous experience, as the guy from Switzerland who went that route. 

Cheers

Norbert

 

 

 

[550superfast]

Norbert - I don't think it was you I kept meeting on track, it was the car with number plate EX460. It was certainly quicker and I am still keen on an upgrade of some sorts.

Good video, certainly get an feeling it is quicker at the top end.

Looking forward to my shotgun ride in spring.

[NW76]

Yep,

I think we never met on track... we should have timed better... next time 

Cheers

Norbert

[Crouchy]

1 hour ago, NW76 said:

I am also pretty sure a bigger SC will be available as an upgrade through KT at some point in time, but I much rather have them thoroughly develop that, then end up with a disastrous experience, as the guy from Switzerland who went that route. 

 

Any more info on this swiss guy and where the info came from. As im looking into taking the plunge later next year i want to make sure I know all the possible problems with both methods

[NW76]

Crouchy: I will send you a PM with his EMail. He also wrote about the issues at length in the blog of his wife. 

http://angiundmartinonracingtour.blogspot.de/search?updated-max=2016-07-31T02:55:00-07:00&max-results=7&start=7&by-date=false

June 27, 2016 entry from Martin. All in German unfortunately. 

Its important to know that he did the upgrade with an Austrian Tuner (Juhu) who got the parts from Australia. It sounds like they did not know what they were doing. In particular when it comes to programming the ECU.

If you are really considering going that route, and you are the first one. It might really be worth while to contact him. I do not know him personally but his whole story is pretty well known in the German Lotus community. 

 

[Crouchy]

Having read that blog it seems like the main problem the Swiss gent had was with Jubu and their incompetence rather than with the tvs1900. It sounds as though Jubu butchered the car and provided software that just wasn't up to scratch. I will investigate further though.

[NW76]

Yes, you are right.

 

I think that is the key: do it with somebody who knows what they are doing ... its hardware and software and whoever is installing it better knows both ... the TVS 1900 as a piece of hardware probably is pretty good ... what I have not seen so far is one properly installed and the software updated properly in a running car that is used on track ... 

Would be interesting to find out if there currently is somebody out there in Europe.

[toshers]

I find it strange that the TVS1900 kit hasn't been developed to produce more in the V6 package than it does. Am I missing something? I'd have thought this hardware would be capable of producing as much as the KT430 or 460 kit in the right hands.

[Steve Banks]

I have the SSC TVS1900 installed and done a couple of track days now. The car walks away from none upgraded Exige's. I haven't had a single issue with the upgrade thus far and find the car idling much smoother and a joy to drive. The car is also my daily. The work was carried out by Harrop in Melbourne so top quality work done. I've had it on a dyno and it put out 422bhp, but again without an intercooler it will drop off over time. SSC do have an intercooler coming. They have it on a few test cars and they are putting out ~450bhp. Their race car with new gearbox etc puts out over 550bhp. 

With the bigger supercharger and intercooler however, it does require the glass boot to be replaced as it doesn't all fit with the stock boot lid. 

The TVS1900 can increase power further but I believe SSC are concerned about the gearbox and transmission giving up. I'm happy with the power it's putting out, don't really want to blow anything up. 

[NW76]

8 hours ago, toshers said:

I find it strange that the TVS1900 kit hasn't been developed to produce more in the V6 package than it does. Am I missing something? I'd have thought this hardware would be capable of producing as much as the KT430 or 460 kit in the right hands.

 

It should be ... but its like @Steve Banks wrote - with a bigger SC you will have even bigger heat issues and w/o a c/c you cant reach those power dimensions sustainably. I think its clear to everyone that a proper job updating to a bigger SC will have to include all the engine peripherials to be updated (manifold, kat, airbox etc)...

Also, if you want to go past 460 imho the engine internals have to be improved and also the transmission. 

Getting in 500 bhp regions is not easy with the Exige...

 

8 hours ago, toshers said:

I find it strange that the TVS1900 kit hasn't been developed to produce more in the V6 package than it does. Am I missing something? I'd have thought this hardware would be capable of producing as much as the KT430 or 460 kit in the right hands.

 

It should be ... but its like @Steve Banks wrote - with a bigger SC you will have even bigger heat issues and w/o a c/c you cant reach those power dimensions sustainably. I think its clear to everyone that a proper job updating to a bigger SC will have to include all the engine peripherials to be updated (manifold, kat, airbox etc)...

Also, if you want to go past 460 imho the engine internals have to be improved and also the transmission. 

Getting in 500 bhp regions is not easy with the Exige...

 

[TBD]

430 HP has shown to be the limit without charge cooling. similarly 460 HP is showing to be the limit with the stock SC with added charge cooling as well as the stock engine internals.

[Hofmanns]

Whilst I can't give you any concrete numbers yet we are the UK distributors for SSC and have a customer with a TVS1900 Supercharger. We fitted the kit a while ago but gave the car straight back to our customer as he had a few trackdays booked. We've now got the car back in for some further work (racelogic equipment, harnesses etc) and will be getting the car on a dyno asap for some numbers.

If anyone would like any more information on the TVS1900 you are more than welcome to call me or Chris Randall on - 01491 848800.

Pat 

[The Pits]

Thanks Pat. Is it true that the 1900cc charger won't fit under the glass engine cover in an Exige? If so how have you gotten around this for your first customer car, if it's not an Evora?