Komotec 460 or SSC TVS1900?

[French Frie]

@The Pits: if does fit under the glass ! It won't if you want to fit both the TVS 1900 AND the sandwich plate of the intercooler, also offered by SSC ... that's at least what I remember from Aussie's post !

[alias23]

3 hours ago, The Pits said:

Thanks Pat. Is it true that the 1900cc charger won't fit under the glass engine cover in an Exige? If so how have you gotten around this for your first customer car, if it's not an Evora?

My understanding is that the TVS1900 unit used in this case was just a charge swap. It didnt include the charge cooler which is being tested in Oz and does require the CupR or similar rear hatch to accommodate.

If you're just going the standard SSC TVS1900 unit you can retain the glass hatch.

[The Pits]

Thanks Imran. Good grief the gearbox would have its work cut out with the chargecooler add-on!

I'd be very interested to know how the K460 guys get on with their gearboxes. So would Lotus also I bet!

[NW76]

Mine still works ... but I have a hunch that it wont last forever... imho some parts are just not strong enough for the massive torque at least if you use it on track regularly...

When it goes I will go for stronger internals and for the short ratio gears ... good excuse to do that ?

[Dani]

On 22/11/2016 at 22:29, NW76 said:

Crouchy: I will send you a PM with his EMail. He also wrote about the issues at length in the blog of his wife. 

http://angiundmartinonracingtour.blogspot.de/search?updated-max=2016-07-31T02:55:00-07:00&max-results=7&start=7&by-date=false

June 27, 2016 entry from Martin. All in German unfortunately. 

Its important to know that he did the upgrade with an Austrian Tuner (Juhu) who got the parts from Australia. It sounds like they did not know what they were doing. In particular when it comes to programming the ECU.

If you are really considering going that route, and you are the first one. It might really be worth while to contact him. I do not know him personally but his whole story is pretty well known in the German Lotus community. 

 

If SCC kompressor kit includes the software tool for updating the ECU, how Jubu could have commited mistakes? Is not it just to plug it and update it?

[NW76]

5 hours ago, Dani said:

If SCC kompressor kit includes the software tool for updating the ECU, how Jubu could have commited mistakes? Is not it just to plug it and update it?

They did not update the existing ECU properly - they ended up installing a new one.

I suppose because just updating didnt do it (they went for 500 bhp) and because of a lack of programming skills - there are very few people in the world outside of Lotus that are capable of programming in depth changes to the Lotus ECU. But if you do that its like replacing the heart of the car - the ECU / CAN Bus system in the Exige controls almost everything.

In the end it looks like it comes down to an Jubu issue more than anything else. But I do not know those guys - normally you have to hear their side of the storry as  well.

Its what I wrote above - the SSC kit seems to work (now there actually is somebody already using it) but imho if you go that route and do not intend to ship your car to AU for installation, make sure you have somebody doing it that knows what he is doing.

And imho a bigger SC w/o improved cooling is not a sustainable solution...

[550superfast]

Big difference fitting the 1900 charger and running the standard SSC ECU update versus a bespoke map trying to run 500bhp.

Come on Pits get it fitted.............

[The Pits]

Well, along with NW76 it would test my theory about the gearbox. Either A: it's fine to handle the extra torque but only for 50,000 miles or so and Lotus are torque limiting the cars so they can go over 100,000 miles without a rebuild - something few cars will ever reach. Or B: the gearbox really is close to its limit at 300lbsft.

I would have thought a gearbox originally intended for a diesel would be built to take a lot of torque, but if it's close to the limit the 460 cars will get through gearboxes in no time. If they don't eat gearboxes then it would suggest Lotus are depriving the first few owners of torque for the benefit of the guys further down the line.

Ferrari set up the ZF box very differently to Mercedes who are thinking about longevity, Ferrari go more for shift times knowing their cars will never see 100,000 miles. I'd like to see Lotus do something similar, if only on a Cup car perhaps, but to at least give the owner the choice of the full torque on the condition that the gearbox is rebuilt every 50,000 miles. Maybe it's 30,000 miles, maybe 20,000? I would probably decline the offer if it was 10,000 or less but anything over that I could live with. It does depend to some extent on driving skill and mechanical sympathy but thanks to the KT460 guys we are about to find out what the gearbox is good for.

[NW76]

If mine is gone its gone ... the car is just so much more powerful and fun that I can live with it ... and 5th and 6th gear are way  long anyway ... with the added power I now really realize how long 6th really is ... I can now hit speeds above 300 kmh plus on the Autobahn if I dare to ... I do not need this - I much rather have a more swift acceleration in 5th and 6th

[Dani]

If I´d go for a Komotec close or superclose ratio final drive, will my gearbox have less mileage?

[NW76]

I dont know - but If you do a decent rebuild with some stronger parts (some are known to be weak) and an oil cooler my hope is that it will last longer ... 

[Win911]

On 22.11.2016 at 20:15, 550superfast said:

2min 53 secs with traffic on the same day for me, running standard power.

The KT460 cars did not appear/look to be 110bhp faster than my car when they went past. I would have thought 110bhp in 1100kg would be very very noticeable.

I did ask Komotec for a passenger lap, but after saying yes, they were not really forthcoming.

Still interested in one of these upgrades though!

Sorry Mate...you ask me for some Laps. Was a bit busy on this Day cause we have an Issue on the Cat Flex Pipe and as a reason the Shiftcables get burned. I saw you running behind the KT car. But there was Daniel K / Owner of KT driving. He has no experience in SPA and did the last Laps on a Track Years ago. I did last Year some 2.44min Laps with the 430 Kit but you loose a lot of Power after some laps. With the Chargecooler you have no Probs with the Power. Our Target is 2.40min. We will Test in March17 in SPA.

[550superfast]

On 28/11/2016 at 17:50, Win911 said:

Sorry Mate...you ask me for some Laps. Was a bit busy on this Day cause we have an Issue on the Cat Flex Pipe and as a reason the Shiftcables get burned. I saw you running behind the KT car. But there was Daniel K / Owner of KT driving. He has no experience in SPA and did the last Laps on a Track Years ago. I did last Year some 2.44min Laps with the 430 Kit but you loose a lot of Power after some laps. With the Chargecooler you have no Probs with the Power. Our Target is 2.40min. We will Test in March17 in SPA.

Hi Win, no problem, I understand if you had issues to deal with - that is priority. I am keen to see what KT460 upgrade is like and the 1900 SSC too.

2.40 will be a fast lap, and more where I would expect a 460bhp exige to be. March 17th at Spa, who is that with? I see LoT are there on the 18th.

[toshers]

Seems SSC are doing more development work with the 1900 and trying custom headers. Might be attemting to get closer to the figures of the EX460. Let's see what info comes out, but I'm certainly very interested in this.

[550superfast]

On 27/12/2016 at 15:21, toshers said:

Seems SSC are doing more development work with the 1900 and trying custom headers. Might be attemting to get closer to the figures of the EX460. Let's see what info comes out, but I'm certainly very interested in this.

They have a charge cooled option that will do 450 very very easily, and 550 or 600 but that will require engine internals

[Alex L]

I'm considering some level of performance upgrade to mine and like the idea of the SSC route with the larger supercharger.

Has anyone in the UK been down this route and if so who undertakes the fitting/mapping?

[Hangar 111]

Hoffmans are the UK partner for the SSC upgrade, and we are UK partner for Komo-Tec.

If you want to have a chat about KT options, give me a shout

Dave

[Seriouslylotus]

19 minutes ago, Alex L said:

I'm considering some level of performance upgrade to mine and like the idea of the SSC route with the larger supercharger.

Has anyone in the UK been down this route and if so who undertakes the fitting/mapping?

Yes two now that I know of.

One was finished on Friday, sure the owner will be along with some info

Talk to Chris at Hofmanns

[Alex L]

Thanks both.

Hangar 111 Dave - I'm weighing up options at the moment and suspect the Komo-Tec 430 would be the level I'm looking for. I'll give you a call if I have any questions.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Alex L

[Bravo73]

Be aware that the KT EX430 struggles with high charge temperatures, especially when on track.

[Alex L]

Thanks, that's the kind of info I'm after and also why the SSC option seems more sensible

[Randy]

For all those interested in the SSC kit please do feel free to give me a call @ Hofmann's - 01491 848800

The reason we chose to team up with SSC and distribute their kit as opposed to going down a route similar to Komotec was principally because the standard supercharger is already on the outer edge of its efficiency window so pushing it harder is far from ideal.  Those who know us well, will know we were heavily involved in racing and installing the Honda K20 kits including supercharging and we used to run those superchargers very hard making them difficult to safely map and potentially unreliable so not something I would like to repeat in an ideal world.  The SSC 1900 charger is the correct sized charger for the job whereas the stock Lotus item was the cheapest charger to hit the required power output.  On top of this we have been extremely impressed with both the quality and the simplicity of the kit.  The mapping process is straightforwards too, we receive a programming tool which we use to download the stock map and send that to SSC for modification before loading it back into the car.  Once complete the car retains all the drivability of the standard car but is transformed in terms of outright performance.  There are options for more power including charge cooling and exhaust headers although the best 'bhp per £' ratio comes with the stock kit (the beauty is in the simplicity).  Being the biggest charger on the market its always going to have the most potential for power and there is nothing stopping you combining the kit with a built engine, after market ecu etc etc. 

[NW76]

Randy: the larger charger sounds interesting - do you guys have some figures what that addition power will mean to performance figures? 100-200 kmh or 80-180 kmh or whatever is used in the UK

Cheers

Norbert

[Seriouslylotus]

38 minutes ago, Randy said:

For all those interested in the SSC kit please do feel free to give me a call @ Hofmann's - 01491 848800

The reason we chose to team up with SSC and distribute their kit as opposed to going down a route similar to Komotec was principally because the standard supercharger is already on the outer edge of its efficiency window so pushing it harder is far from ideal.  Those who know us well, will know we were heavily involved in racing and installing the Honda K20 kits including supercharging and we used to run those superchargers very hard making them difficult to safely map and potentially unreliable so not something I would like to repeat in an ideal world.  The SSC 1900 charger is the correct sized charger for the job whereas the stock Lotus item was the cheapest charger to hit the required power output.  On top of this we have been extremely impressed with both the quality and the simplicity of the kit.  The mapping process is straightforwards too, we receive a programming tool which we use to download the stock map and send that to SSC for modification before loading it back into the car.  Once complete the car retains all the drivability of the standard car but is transformed in terms of outright performance.  There are options for more power including charge cooling and exhaust headers although the best 'bhp per £' ratio comes with the stock kit (the beauty is in the simplicity).  Being the biggest charger on the market its always going to have the most potential for power and there is nothing stopping you combining the kit with a built engine, after market ecu etc etc. 

I have had many conversations with both Chris and SSC.

Once I get over /past the 'My car is new' issues I will be adding the SSC kit. There is also an upgrade path, SSC already have a chargecooled version funning over 550 bhp, this did require a set of forge rods and pistons.....

[Randy]

1 hour ago, NW76 said:

Randy: the larger charger sounds interesting - do you guys have some figures what that addition power will mean to performance figures? 100-200 kmh or 80-180 kmh or whatever is used in the UK

Cheers

Norbert

We don't have those figures but SSC might have them - I'll ask next time we speak.