New 410 musings - Ex Cayman

[The Pits]

No that was the point of the joke, sorry if it wasn’t clear. I have no stereo at all, just the way I like it. Wimped out and went for aircon though. Anyone deleting that is my hero!

[Inkyfingers]

I have always thought I wouldn't be able to cope without a stereo, but since the stereo in my daily shed Golf stopped working (repairing it would cost more than the car is worth) I've actually not missed it as much as I thought, and quite enjoy spending a quiet journey alone with my thoughts. I imagine it would be even easier with a nice V6 soundtrack added!

[The Pits]

I don't miss it at all. I can get the radio and itunes through my phone if bored in traffic. When pressing on then I'd turn off the stereo (if I had one) for sure.

I get it in an Evora, screen looks quite smart plus reversing camera must be useful but stereo makes no sense at all in an Exige, looks quite wrong to me now, especially in a Cup car!

[C8RKH]

Brought my 75 year old mother up to Scotland in the 410 Sport yesterday. I wondered how she would cope with the stiffer ride and those carbon seats.

After 5 hours in the car her comment was, "oooh, very nice, much more comfortable than that other one (S1 NA) that you had!"  I think she's been a closet petrol head all her life!

Re the stereo - I honestly honestly do not get it - you switch it on and sound comes out. It works. Super.  As for hi fidelity quality - really, in a plastic box travelling at 70mph (give or take 70mph) with big wheels, wind noise, the odd rattle and creak - if that really is your priority then I'm sorry, in my very humblest, of humble opinions, you Sirs, should be being chauffeured in Merc S' classes, BMW 7,s or Audi 8 barges and not be allowed anywhere near one of God's own best driving beasts.

To my untrained and obviously unfussy ears, the system in my 410 sounds just the same as every other car system I have heard.

The ONLY reason for the double din ICE in a Lotus, again, in my humblest of opinions is to display a reversing camera, have Torque or Harry's lap timer loaded, or for the sat nav with speed camera locations.  Any noise it makes is well, just noise....    We will never agree on this and I guess we are all right.

 

[jonnyboy]

Lotus have conditioned you to have low expectations

My main gripe is that at this price level it should have some premium kit really. As mentioned my 8 year old Cayman kicked it' ass in this department. My works van is significantly better and an Aygo hire car. Missed opprtunity for a nice tie up with one of the many UK based audio manufacturers many of whom I'm sure would love to get a foothold into the oem car market. 

I' not over fussy but could never for example use standard headphones that come with a phone. 

Interior noise levels are lower than many cars I have had. In fact with the exhaust off it' almost serene. 

[Neal H]

I think the point is, that while we few hard-core Lotus fanboys will put up with a crap stereo in a £70k - £125k GT car, the wider car buying public won't and if Lotus want to move up-market this is a glaring flaw!

The stereo in my Evora 400 was mediocre at best (I'm being generous), the stereo in my Elise is far, far worse - but what do I expect in a car that 'only' costs £50k! It doesn't bother me personally - it had zero influence on my buying decision - but it seems such an easy win for Lotus that I don't understand why they didn't make a proper effort with the Evora 400/410/430.

[The Pits]

Fair point about UK hi fi bods involved, Bowers and Wilkins is virtually Jeeves and Wooster, about as English as they come!

Trouble is, I can't help but like that there's one manufacturer left who places the stereo system so low down their list of priorities. Too busy finessing the dampers to within an inch of their life. Long may they keep it that way so I prefer that we're left to our own devices with stereos.

But fair enough, if they're charging premium prices for a stereo it needs to offer premium sound.

[C8RKH]

31 minutes ago, jonnyboy said:

Lotus have conditioned you to have low expectations

My main gripe is that at this price level it should have some premium kit really. As mentioned my 8 year old Cayman kicked it' ass in this department. My works van is significantly better and an Aygo hire car. Missed opprtunity for a nice tie up with one of the many UK based audio manufacturers many of whom I'm sure would love to get a foothold into the oem car market. 

I' not over fussy but could never for example use standard headphones that come with a phone. 

Interior noise levels are lower than many cars I have had. In fact with the exhaust off it' almost serene. 

Not true - you missed my point that it sounds no worse nor no better than any other car stereo!

I'm with @The Pits and prefer the fact that Lotus give the stereo little thought as they focus on the things I think are important around driver dynamics etc.

Maybe that's why porsche is so good at selling sports cars to hairdressers and dentists who probably don't give a fig for the driving dynamics but love the stereo?

[Bruss]

It's a LOT worse than any other car stereo, even in the cheapest of family hatches.

But you may be right , it's the incredible attention to detail of everything else that has made Lotus such a massive success against its competitors.

 

 

[Chris J]

10 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Not true - you missed my point that it sounds no worse nor no better than any other car stereo!

Thing is as you said, you're not fussy about music in the car. Los of other people are.  I can say the stereo in my S1 is shockingly bad compared to the probably not high spec system in my skoda. Not that i can hear it most of the time as the valve is stuck open on the 2bular...

 

It wouldn't be a difficult thing for lotus to spec up an actual premium system as a cost option for the Evora. Pointless in an Exige/ Elise but it is expected at the level lotus are moving in to. Anyway i expect now they have Geely's backing there will be a reskinned version of Volvo infotainment (hate that word) in the next Evora.

[PaulCP]

Cup holders and now HiFi quality, fook me, next we’ll have people complaining that their Evora is lacking Automonous Emergency Braking, Lane Keep Assist and Self Park facilities, all of which you can get on a £17k Ford Fiesta 

My only gripe (minor) is the quality of the radio reception, probably due to the chassis earthing coupled with the A pillar aerial. No doubt one of those “bee sting” aerials stuck on the roof would sort out some of the reception issues 

[The Pits]

33 minutes ago, Bruss said:

It's a LOT worse than any other car stereo, even in the cheapest of family hatches.

But you may be right , it's the incredible attention to detail of everything else that has made Lotus such a massive success against its competitors.

 

 

Selling any cars at all against such massively well-funded and heavily promoted competitors is its own measure of success.

I know a few people in the industry who think it's a minor miracle that Lotus are still trading at all. The market has moved massively away from sports cars in recent years. Sports cars are mostly loss leaders now, almost impossible to sustain a business based only on them. Yet the lights are still on at Lotus and they're still making outstanding drivers cars. Unlike TVR, Zenos, Marcos, Weissman, Noble, Ascari and many others.

A truly focused car is never going to sell in huge numbers, by definition. Porsche sold next to bugger all of the revered 4.0 997 GT3RS in the UK (in the days before they played the speculator game). Total RHD production is estimated to be less than 30 cars, that's for all RHD markets.

Should we judge that car by the sales figures?

[Bruss]

No we don't judge the cars by the sales figures. we judge the company and whether we want to invest 100K plus in a new car produced by that company. As I have said many times I am a life long fan and repeat buyer of the Lotus car. I want Lotus to not only survive but thrive so I can keep getting what I want. Fitting below standard parts that are bettered in small family saloons isn't doing the company any favours.

 

 

 

[SFO]

19 minutes ago, The Pits said:

Porsche sold next to bugger all of the revered 4.0 997 GT3RS in the UK (in the days before they played the speculator game). Total RHD production is estimated to be less than 30 cars, that's for all RHD markets.

Should we judge that car by the sales figures?

that was because worldwide production was limited to 600 units. you could not buy one unless you were sleeping with the dealer principal of the OPC

[Cypriot]

Its not a case about whether one person uses a stereo or not, or even whether one believes there even is a point in having it.  The reality is Lotus charge for it, and its a very very poor system when it shouldn't be.  We all love Lotus, hence why all of us on here own them, and love them, and definitely want them to succeed.  Asking customers to pay for a premium head unit, sub and amp, then basically not delivering what was intended (again irrespective of whether one actually uses it or not) is not really acceptable in this day and age, and at this price level, and given the remit of the Evora.  Exige and Elise are different animals entirely.

Its also one of the easiest things to fix about car, so why not just do it? Does lotus not take the quality of its interiors seriously? Ok, I know I am being rather aggressive in my assumptions here, but you can easily see the thought process of your average customer who isn't on a lotus forum... 

Am I being crazy here?:P It definitely didnt stop me, or any of us here, from buying one, but little things like this will stop your average joe from buying one.  Also, fitting a quality stereo will have zero impact on the the small minority who don't care about it, unlike say, adding some kind of "comfort" electric seats...

[The Pits]

The average joe won’t buy a Lotus how ever many iPads you have sticking out of the dash. The only reason they sell any cars at all is because they are different and unique. Different priorities, different approach, different size, different shape. Take that away and it would be game over. It’s better that they’re polarising, loved by some, disliked by others than just merely quite liked by everyone. Who buys a sports car they quite like?

I suspect the next generation of Lotus will be more similar to the usual suspects so we will see the effect of that soon enough. It’s likely they’ll use turbo fours, with paddleshift auto, easier for the elderly and infirm to get in and out of, larger, heavier, easier to drive for the less skilled. That’s precisely why I’m more interested in the last of the current line up. We won’t see their like again.

[Ccd]

Of the things that irritate about Lotus interiors, the stereo is not one of them.  Reason?  It is a standard double DIN radio that is easily replaced.  All you really need from Lotus is to have your car wired for sound.   

[Ccd]

I agree with Pitts that the next gen Lotus cars will be more like their competition.  But the entire sports/supercar market is heading towards a wall.  At some point, customers will realize that 0-60 times are so low as to be meaningless.  Most sports cars/supercars never see the track and they are all pretty much massive overkill for the road.

Lotus will have to find a way to effectively market aspects like driver engagement and steering feel.

[Chris J]

41 minutes ago, Ccd said:

Of the things that irritate about Lotus interiors, the stereo is not one of them.  Reason?  It is a standard double DIN radio that is easily replaced.  All you really need from Lotus is to have your car wired for sound.   

Though if they could give the option to have your car wired with a slightly higher than absolute bottom end bargain basement spec of speaker that would be helpful. The head unit is almost irrelevant when the part that produces the sound is so poor...

Make it an expensive option (then folk will believe it must be quality!) but at least give it as an option!

[Neal H]

I also don't believe that a fantastic driving experience and a decent sound system have to be mutually exclusive.

[Beetleything]

1 hour ago, Ccd said:

Of the things that irritate about Lotus interiors, the stereo is not one of them.  Reason?  It is a standard double DIN radio that is easily replaced.  All you really need from Lotus is to have your car wired for sound.   

I wonder if you opt out of the stereo from Lotus - if the wiring is still there i.e. standard loom for the car so stereo wring already installed - in which case opt out and put your own in?

[The Pits]

I believe that’s the case. Sport 410s still had speakers in too. I’m sure I could beat the factory effort with a budget of £2k to spend, if I had any interest in doing so.

[C8RKH]

I very much doubt the issue re sound quality is the head unit.  If you want to improve sound then you will need to add lots of sound deadening in the right places (behind the speakers in the doors etc), replace the speakers and tweeters etc. as they'll be generic shite, and add a decent amp.

In my humble and untrained opinion it is definitely not the head unit's capabilities though so save yourself a grand on changing that and use the money on the other stuff.

The features of the head unit are extensive with a powerful CPU and upgraded memory chips:

Sound Tuning

• BASS ENGINE SQ
• BASS ENGINE PRO
• Subwoofer Level Adjustment
• Subwoofer Phase Select
• Equalizer: Flat, Pops, Rock, News, Jazz, Electrical Dance, Hip Hop,  Easy Listening, Country, Classical
• 9-band Parametric Equalizer
• 6-Channel Digital Time Correction
• Digital Crossover Setting
• Customized Sound Setting by Car Type
• MediaXpander
• Application Volume Level Setting
• Sound Setting Data Download
• Easy, Step-by-Step Sound Customization
• Alpine TuneIt App read

Sound Tuning

• Subwoofer Level Adjustment: 0 to +15
• Subwoofer Phase Setting: 0° or 180°
• High Pass Filter: 20 / 25 / 31.5 / 40 / 50 / 63 / 80 / 100 / 125 / 160 / 200 Hz
• High Pass Filter (Slope): Off / -6 / -12 / -18 / -24 dB/oct.
• High Pass Filter (Gain): -12 to 0 dB
• Low Pass Filter: 20 / 25 / 31.5 / 40 / 50 / 63 / 80 / 100 / 125 / 160 / 200 Hz
• Low Pass Filter (Slope): Off / -6 / -12 / -18 / -24 dB/oct.
• Low Pass Filter (Gain): -12 to 0 dB
• Time Correction: 0.0 - 9.9ms (0.1ms step)
• Parametric Equalizer (Band 1): 20 - 100 Hz
• Parametric Equalizer (Band 2): 63 - 315 Hz
• Parametric Equalizer (Band 3): 125 - 500 Hz
• Parametric Equalizer (Band 4): 250 - 1k Hz
• Parametric Equalizer (Band 5): 500 - 2k Hz
• Parametric Equalizer (Band 6): 1k - 4k Hz
• Parametric Equalizer (Band 7): 2k - 7.2 k Hz
• Parametric Equalizer (Band 8): 5.8k - 12k Hz
• Parametric Equalizer (Band 9): 9k - 20k Hz
• Parametric Equalizer (Gain): -7 to +7
• Parametric Equalizer (Bandwidth): 1, 2, 3
• Application Volume Level Setting: -14 to +14

 

I can't believe that in a thread talking about one of the most focused Evora's ever produced we are reduced to talking about the bloody radio of all things.  

[Neal H]

4 hours ago, C8RKH said:

I can't believe that in a thread talking about one of the most focused Evora's ever produced we are reduced to talking about the bloody radio of all things.  

Constructive criticism to help our favourite car company sell more cars

Stereo quality is one of the few things on an Evora worthy of criticism.

[C8RKH]

If I was Lotus I would just ship the damn things without a stereo, end of, and let owners do what they want - by all means include the wiring so it is just a hook up job.

I'm a dullard or just a freak, but i really just do not get it. The Alpine W990 is a £600 fully featured head-unit. It has all the bells and whistles you want. There is nothing wrong with the head unit. As I said before its the speakers and other associated shite. I'm just glad my 410 has the sport button. The ONLY THING that pisses me off about the alpine unit is that I cannot turn the damn thing off!

I give up.