Caterham A Lotus?

[Paul C]

However, as a life-long Lotus nut I love the fact that lurking somewhere in the cars I drive is Chapman's genius.

I'm with that. The Lotus Seven was sold by caterham and then they continued to make it when lotus stopped.

It has a direct link to Colin Chapman as he saw it from design to completion. With the end of Esprit manufacture the irony is that the only true chapman designs (this and the Eleven) still being made are not being made by Lotus.

The Carlton

The VX220

The Elise

The Exige

The Evora

The 2 eleven

Were not designed or overseen by the creator of Lotus. The Seven (beit Lotus or Caterham) can claim this. IMO this actually makes it MORE of a Lotus than any of the cars being quibbled about on this thread. A car that came from the founder of Lotus has (IMO) as much, if not more right to be called a lotus than something penned by someone still in nappies when the founder was under the soil.

[Kim.com]

I totally aggree with you Paul!

What else could be the reason for all these Caterhams visiting Hethel 2 years ago?

Guess you newer have seen so many sevens at one place at the time. There was 500 and 70% was Caterhams.

/Kim

[73JPS]

I'm with that. The Lotus Seven was sold by caterham and then they continued to make it when lotus stopped.

It has a direct link to Colin Chapman as he saw it from design to completion. With the end of Esprit manufacture the irony is that the only true chapman designs (this and the Eleven) still being made are not being made by Lotus.

The Carlton

The VX220

The Elise

The Exige

The Evora

The 2 eleven

Were not designed or overseen by the creator of Lotus. The Seven (beit Lotus or Caterham) can claim this. IMO this actually makes it MORE of a Lotus than any of the cars being quibbled about on this thread. A car that came from the founder of Lotus has (IMO) as much, if not more right to be called a lotus than something penned by someone still in nappies when the founder was under the soil.

By extension, then, there are no true Fords, Chryslers, Porches, Ferraris, or Hondas (to name a few) being made today on account of the fact that the persons who started these companies are all dust... ?

Don't get me wrong, I would personally have no issue with Caterhams, Kia Elan M100s, Teslas or whatever being included with a Lotus club event. I just don't think that the health of the company founder at the concpetion of the automobile in question is in any way a valid marker for considering a vehicle's inclusion or exclusion.

Edited November 20, 2009 by 73JPS

[Paul C]

By extension, then, there are no true Fords, Chryslers, Porches, Ferraris, or Hondas (to name a few) being made today on account of the fact that the persons who started these companies are all dust... ?

Read my post, i did not say they were not 'true' lotus's once, you just thought i did.

But yes, i'd say a 356 designed by Ferry Porsche is a 'truer' Porsche than some 4 x 4 school run thing. But thats only my opinion

Chryslers, Hondas and Fords (well, I have no possibility in owning a desirable Ford) do not interest me true or untrue, whatever that means.

I'll never own a porsche, that does not mean i think they are bad cars, i'm just never going to be a Porsche owner.

[Advantage]

I think you'll struggle to find a single item in a modern day Caterham that can be interchanged with a Lotus 7.

It's an ancient idea that is nothing more than Chapman's cast off. A metal tubed dinosuar which he no longer wanted or needed and sold to the highest (only?) bidder.

No, a Caterham isn't a Lotus or it would be called a Lotus, it isn't it's called a Caterham. Probably something to do with the name of the company which makes them.

[molemot]

I always wanted a Seven, ever since I saw one of the very first at the "Do-it-Yourself" exhibition at Olympia when I were a lad. Trouble was, they were always too expensive for what they were. So I went down the "buy a wreck and rebuild it yourself" route...first with the MG TC and later with assorted TRs, Alfas, Mini Coopers, and finally I was in a position to buy and build a Seven. I really had a hankering for an Aston DB6..but the price of those shot up before I could buy one, so I fell back on the Seven idea. Then I realised that for the same cost as building a Seven, I could buy a Giugiaro Esprit Turbo.....and thoughts of Sevens disappeared!! Having been down the "open sports car with no weather equipment" route years back, and knocked out by the Esprit aesthetics, I bought the second one I looked at. That was 21 years ago...still haven't found anything I'd want to swap it for. Having said that, I'm currently inserting a 4.2 litre Audi V8 into a road legal single seater...so sanity hasn't claimed me yet.

The modern "Caterham" version of the Seven caters for a constant, if restricted, clientele..and I think it will go on forever; Chapman DNA - as has been said - in possibly the purest form. But NOT a Lotus!!

[73JPS]

Read my post, i did not say they were not 'true' lotus's once, you just thought i did.

I think I made a logical interpretation based on the fact that you stated the Seven was MORE of a Lotus than cars that were produced since the founder took his final drive . "True", "More of"... eh, whatever. The reasoning is specious regardless, IMO, at least when it comes to the question being asked at the start of this post.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

I say definitely Lotus. The Caterham's pure Lotus DNA, just evolved over the years but then that's what all Lotus models do.

Edited November 20, 2009 by Stirling_Villeneuve

[Paul C]

I think I made a logical interpretation based on the fact that you stated the Seven was MORE of a Lotus than cars that were produced since the founder took his final drive. "True", "More of"... eh, whatever. The reasoning is specious regardless, IMO, at least when it comes to the question being asked at the start of this post.

Live long and prosper.

No, a Caterham isn't a Lotus or it would be called a Lotus, it isn't it's called a Caterham. Probably something to do with the name of the company which makes them.

By this measure, and off topic mate, but purely out of interest on 'the company that makes it' thing, is the 2010 Lotus f1 car a Lotus or not?

[73JPS]

I was going to make an "Is Your Car a Lotus?" flow chart, but I became distracted by a rubber band.

[Mr_John111]

Now you see I've got this antique broom, been handed down for generations. The brush part has been changed twice and the handle has been changed too but its still an antique - right?!

Working on the basis that unless its preserved in aspic then none of us has a Lotus (my wifes certainly isn't the same as when it left the factory 25 years ago) then perhaps we could give the Caterham a little slack.

I have to declare an interest, I had one in 1989/90. I put it together from a kit specified my own engine and wheels but pretty much the rest came from Caterham. (and it was fun,fun,fun)

There was one part that didn't come from Caterham though. I was so impressed by the lotus heritage that I put a genuine Lotus badge on the nosecone.

So surely all I did was rebuild an original Lotus 7 series 3 around the original badge using non original parts?

See- its a minefield!

Anyway I was welcomed with open arms at Lotus 89 at Donington when hundreds of Caterhams turned up

[cncreffield@bluewin.ch]

my wifes certainly isn't the same as when it left the factory 25 years ago

You bought your wife from a factory ?? coooool

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

Now you see I've got this antique broom, been handed down for generations. The brush part has been changed twice and the handle has been changed too but its still an antique - right?!

Absolutely, it would be interesting to know whether the Elise has developed more over the past 13 years than the Lotus 7 S3 has in the past 35+ years at Caterham. There's a world of difference between an S1 Elise back in '96 with it's stripped out interior and 118bhp K serie and a new S2 SC with it's fly by wire throttle, air bag, sound proofing, air con, not to mention the completely revised styling, the odd 220bhp and of course the cup holder. Then there's the word of an S3 around the corner!

[USAndretti42]

I suppose the first thing to find out is, which Caterham? The early ones were definitely Lotus being the same design. I think the very first ones used parts from Lotus. Over the decades, though, it has evolved and changed to the state where now it is no longer a Lotus but a Caterham design.

Ask yourself if an Evante is a Lotus. It was based on an Elan, using some Elan body parts and a twin-cam engine. But the body was modified to ass spoilers, the engine had Vegantune's own cylinder-head design and the chassis was modified. I don't think we would call it a Lotus. Likewise, the Kia Elan. It was built under license with their own engine but otherwise a copy of the M100. No-one considers it a Lotus.

So the modern Caterham 7 is a fine car in its own right but no longer a Lotus. It's the broom whose handle has been replaced with a carbon-fibre rod and a slightly-wider head with improved bristles but not what your local hardware store sells.

[Roger 912]

Colin Chapman gave the manufacturing rights to Caterham cars for the Lotus Super 7 Series 4 not the series 3. It was only when Caterham realised that the public did not want the series 4 that they then started producing the series 3.

Unfortunately there are now far to many clones of the Series 3 that I agree that only the original Lotus can be considered a Lotus. I have owned two Birkin Super 7's that have been badged as Lotus, but even though they were made better than the Lotus they do not carry the Lotus Heritage.

Just for information, Caterham Cars took Birkin to court in South Africa over them making the Birkin Super 7 and Caterham lost.