Exploded

Great looking car. Good to see that "laughing-MK1-styled-mouth" again. Feels like coming home.

Exactly, that is why I never was and never will be, a Ferrari fan. In fact, when they are leading a GP, I tend to turn off tv. I couldn't care less if they win. How crazy is that?

I agree, although a few people pointed out to me, in other topics , that build quality is more important than the place where the car is made. Me on the other hand, I just can not see that a new Esprit, which should be in the league with Fezza's and Lambo's, is not built at Lotus. Would customers from Fezza's or Lambo's accept their car is not built in Italy, not in Modena? I can not understand that any customer would buy that. Let's face it, it's going to take quite a lot of effort, to convince people to buy an Esprit instead of another Super Car, that market is simply swamped these days. Adding to that the car is not even built by Lotus themselves, will not help, I think. Their is no passion in letting other people do the work. As said before, blowing your money in F1 and then asking the tax payers for money, is not done. Although I do understand the worries from the locals. To them it's a sad thing.

Bibs it was Clive himself who owned the rights way back in the nineties. So it was his personal wish not to leave it in history and sell. He made the choice himself and I am quite sure he took a big fat cheque at that time. So now that Bahar is going to build him a heritage center in Hethel, saying that everyone should leave it in the past is not appropriate imho.

Exactly why I always say that I am a Team Lotus fan and no TF fan, nor Bahar fan. But I feel no hate for anyone Bibs . The only persons who should be admired are David Hunt and MJK. They both kept it easy and simple. They should both be honored, given a medal. But TF and Bahar are 2 little kids at play, playing with other people's money and my favorite F1 team and my favorite cars.They both should be slapped!

Yes indeed Bibs you are close to truth. But once you made a deal and added a timeline to that, being a gentle man, then you should honor that, shouldn't you? TF demanded DH that he would write him a guarantee that he will win the trial, while everyone knows such things are impossible. It's the judge to decide and you are never ever sure what is the outcome of a trial unless the judge has spoken.

It's as simple as can be, if you buy something, then you have to pay for it! Simple isn't it? Maybe TF should start paying David Hunt??? Was that clear enough? I think someone in Hethel is walking around with a very big smile on his face. But hey that is what happens TF, if you are trying to rip some one, you shot yourself in your own foot. I suggest that TF should react swiftly.

I do that more than you could ever know, trust me. I just want Lotus to be affordable to any of us, here at the forum. And I am 100% percent sure that over 40% of the people here on the forum, can not afford a Lotus any more, the way things are going now, without giving up on other luxury. And to be honest, I was a Lotus fan ever since I was little kid, with the cars that are coming now at such mentioned prices, with big engines and very high taxes here in Belgium, I'm giving up on Lotus, because there are other things in life except from Lotus. And I sincerely believe that a lot of people think likewise. But yet again, in time I hope you prove me wrong.

Great beer idd! Did you know that the other Belgian Gordon Xmas lover, agrees with me entirely, about this topic? Yet you did not call him irrational yet :-)

My point exactly! It's stupid to throw everything away, what was at Lotus 2 years ago and point at it, as if all was bad.

Read my post above please, you are right! And MJK acknowledged that too and so do I, but it's hard when your cars are not making enough profit and you don't get a budget from the share holders (Proton) to build new cars. Super Cars require Super Money to develop. If you have to do it, with "own" earned money instead of getting a big cheque, then things are just a whole lot harder. Believe me I would be happy if you all came down to me in 2 years time and tell me: See, we told you so that Bahar's way, is the way to go. I would really happy if Bahar and his team could really do that with "his" own cars, with his own new created platform. But honestly for now, I don't see it and it seems the fact that I dare to say so, makes me some kind of outcast; although I feel respected as I can speak freely. And next time you are Belgium I would feel honoured to help you, to add Duvel, Jupiler and Westvleteren to your vocabulary

I agree with you that the Elise and Exige could not cover all costs and action needed to be taken, but there for, MJK did bring the Evora and even you know that the Esprit was in a very advanced stadium, but there was money needed from the Evora to finance and complete that Esprit. It's a lot easier if you do like Bahar and just build the car with other people's money. It's clear that you are a big Bahar fan or at least a big fan of the current management, while I am not, but still we both like Lotuses, don't we? Not all was perfect under MJK, certainly the marketing bit could have been a whole lot more better, but saying that everything was bad, that is shameless. That 10 miles to the gallon was just a way of speaking, I wanted to point out that the majority of people is not waiting for a car that consumes a lot of fuel, when just normal driving on public roads. Sorry if that was not clear. I'm not a native English speaker as you all have noticed for sure, I only assume that my English is a tiny little better than most people from the forum's Dutch

You are centainly not the enemy to me and the only reason for not shaking hands and say hello, was because you were talking to someone and I felt it would be unpolite to interrupt your conversation. You were standing around 50m away from me and as I was talking to someone from an other stand, at that moment, I only noticed you because I was standing faced to the Lotus stand. I got an invitation to have a drink with that person I was chatting with and when I came back, I didn't see nor find you any more, although I did my very best and even asked several people like mr Bing, where you were. You know how crowded it was. I would feel much better if Bahar would stay and really bring in the money as he has promised, stopped his stupid F1 sponsoring scam, started support Team Lotus AND go from where MJK left. Acknowledging the fact that the Elise and Exige are THE sports cars to have fun with and the ones to build in these times of economical crisis, where fuel prices are soaring. I don't think that the majority of people are waiting for cars with big engines, high taxes and will only do 10 miles to the gallon. That would honestly make me much happier, I don't care what the CEO's name is, I just think that the current CEO's business plan stinks. That's all.

Just one more point to make especially for you Bibs, how many times before, were you at the grand opening in Geneva? Well I don’t know but knowing you are a big motoring fan, I guess you were already there a few times in the past as well, and if you had been there, ever since Proton was owning the Lotus company, as some people were, then you would have noticed, that there were at least 9 or 10 Malaysian (Proton) representatives in Geneva, EACH year. They did not miss a single year. How many have you counted this year? So if you say that nothing is going on at Lotus, that every one agrees with Bahar’s views and all is fantastic and great, then I think you didn’t look very well. There was very very nervous CEO in Geneva, that is for sure! I certainly do not prefer that, but you can not be best friends with some one and then tell the world, that you are the most objective person.

Well my Porsche Panamera was 21 (!!!!!!) times in at Porsche and had 2 new engines in less than 1 year (and I can prove all this as all is documented).... No Lotus will ever beat that I'm affraid.... I feel no hate for the person Bahar, but only for the way that he is digging a very deep financial hole, where Lotus will never get out. Maybe things would have been a lot better now, if Proton had invested some money when MJK was still leading the company? He never got any money to invest, he only got money to cover the losses and he even succeeded in bring up a very small profit. Did you know I get many emails from people who actually support me and see things the way I do? It's only sad that they do not dare to come out for their opinion, affraid of being pointed at as a person with an irrational hate. Bibs, you have a great forum and I am happy that you are not censoring my thoughts, as you could easily do, but I saw you at Geneva shaking hands with the new management team big shots, your good friends, so it seemed, so please do not tell me that YOU are objective mate, in fact you are as subjective as you could be. It's not because you are acting innocent and objective, that that is what you really are. I feel like your comment was going in a personal way and is aimed to have my mouth shut, if that is what you want , fine. And if you don't want peoply who like to think outside the box who do not want to repeat over and over the new management's opinion, then it's also good for me.

Well do you think an Esprit rattles or squeaks, or it's finish is more worse than a super car of the same era? Well then I woud totally disagree with you and I know so because I had cars like a 348 and I wouldn't trade my Esprit for any 348 in the world. If you say that the Elise rattles and squeaks and it's finish is less, then I would agree, but that car is in the first place meant to be a trackday tool, and not a comfy car. You get what you pay for imho. Outsourcing your poduction of cars is not the way to go, if you want to ask such ridiculous prices as are mentioned and you can not compensate that with a rebranded V8 or V6 engine. And GKP do you think it's fair to ask the government for money now, just to keep production in Hethel and eventually outsourcing it any way?

Building special types cars, building cars in a different way, taking new approaches, viewing things from other angles, wasn't that Lotus's core business????? I believe you are missing my point exactly, Lotus is giving up all what it stands innovation into the car industry. I'm affraid that when Bahar will be forced to leave the factory, then Lotus will only be seller of "empty boxes", they have their cars built by other companies and are just selling the boxes with no added value at all. That seems to be Bahar's trademark, selling hot air, just as in F1, putting your name on a car, with no added value what so ever!!! That is totally NOT what Lotus stands for. And as Lotus passionate and Lotus driver, ever since I got my driver's license, I feel very sad about that. Buddsy, you are right regardless of what Bibs is trying to say, they layting off people, people who leave, retire, etc, are not replaced, ever since Bahar got there.

Interesting reading Interesting points to highlight, imho “The firm, which had 1,400 staff when Mr Bahar joined in 2009, now has 1,700 staff globally, including contractors, he said.” But surely Bibs, you replied to me in one of the topics that he had employed 750 in several different posts. “will also need a level of “right-sizing” in the next year.” So not only is the 750 figure wrong but he’s going to make some considerable lay offs. “So, where will the new cars be built? There is potential to outsource production, said Mr Bahar.” So I feel I must defend myself and Kimbers earlier posts, as we are right, and everyone who said they would be Lotus’s, are simply wrong. They will be built by someone else and rebadged, just as the engine will be, should the Esprit come next year! ““There will be losses for three years and then we will start to break even.” If they last that long. But no mention of a profit!!!! “Its bid for £27.9m of cash from the government’s over-subscribed regional growth fund to help expand manufacturing in Norfolk is also up in the air until the end of this month.” Is directly contradicted by Bahar himself saying “The money the government is offering would never fill the gap we need to meet.” They aren’t offering it! That’s a lie! firstly because its over subscribed, secondly because you have already stated you will outsource some production (at least some!!) and lastly because you are about to blow more than that on a stupid court case just to show you are spoiled little brat, who wants to be right all the time and play the boss all the time! Why would the UK govt give you that money when they know it will go on legal fees??? Isn't the UK in an economic crisis anymore?

How I wished, that Team Lotus could repeat this result in a real race situation, some where this season. Yesterday's times: Pos Driver Team/Car Time Gap Laps 1. Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1m21.761s 95 2. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m22.092s + 0.331s 132 3. Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1m22.466s + 0.705s 97 4. Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1m22.637s + 0.876s 105 5. Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1.22.892s + 1.131s 89 6. Nick Heidfeld Renault 1m23.541s + 1.780s 32 7. Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Renault 1m23.990s + 2.229s 40 8. Vitaly Petrov Renault 1m24.233s + 2.472s 24 9. Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1m24.334s + 2.573s 108 10. Jaime Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m24.779s + 3.018s 107 11. Jerome D'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth 1m27.336s + 5.575s 96 12. Jarno Trulli Lotus-Renault 1m34.485s + 12.724s 6

Funny that there is not a single clue on the car that the work is done by Mansory. As you can see there is only Lotus Bespoke on the car and the funny thing is, on the Mansory stand there is no Evora... Funny isn't it? Too bad they took the Lada-Renault-colored-Evora away...

I hope you bought this: Lotus Esprit Although I heard that all engineers, who were involved at that time, have to come together to get this masterpiece up and running again, yes it is that complex...

Idd I believe this means that Toyota’s days are counted in Hethel indeed. And what worries me the most is that they are buying chassis as well. Lotus are known for their innovating chassis, which comes with their great ride and handling… Yesterday it came to our mind that nowadays Lotus has their cars tuned by others, instead of tuning for other car companies, as it was in the past. So what is next, now even buying chassis as well, were innovating chassis was Lotus' core business? These are all very very bad signals and show that the crisis at Proton and affiliates is very big! It’s panic all the way.

Bibs, so I will be able to see the protoypes tomorrow? Which one? All of them? Still I think they should have showed the world that they had done a lot of work and made progress with the Paris models. If they had done that, that could have created an opportunity for the banks, to approve the loan, needed to fund all Bahar's crazy plans. What about an Exige V6, a lot of people (including dealers) and even Bahar at one stage, were hinting there could have been a V6 Exige in Geneva...

Around 6 months ago there was this big show in Paris, with 5 new prototypes! Now half a year later, errrrr..... none of them are on the next big motorshow in Europe. Instead there is this ridiculous announcement that Lotus will build their own new V8 engine in around 1.5 year time... Bollocks!!! I can not understand who can still believe all this crap and lies.

This could be the start of the end... when speculation starts, thing will get nasty... and fast!