Exige S2 or Elise Cup?

[Mr 🦊]

Hi,

First post, massive fan, big up to all Lotus owners and dreamers. I’ve been the later most of my life and plan on changing that soonish... who hasn’t dreamt of owning one of the purest sports cars ever produced...? 
 

Long story short, I’m in the market for a toy and it’s definitely going to be a Lotus. I’m torn between an; Exige S2 (220bhp) which it seems to me are holding value, if you are smart about your purchase and an Elise Cup of sorts. Cup R or a 220 seem to be more in budget (£30k).
 

They are both going to be incredible, that is the win-win situation, but because of the age between the two cars and the model variance (S2/S3) and also that the newer Elise Cups seem to be the new Exige (that’s not the V6), I’d be really interested to hear thoughts on pro and cons, maybe owners of the two who have been through the same buying questions... 

 

Thanks for listening! Very excited to become a Lotus owner.

James 

[Petrolgeneration]

Welcome to the club (soon!)

It kinda depends. I actually feel the S3 Cup's are the ultimate evolution/successor of the S2 Exige and the current Exige V6 is a totally different car in my opinion.

Exige 220 is a lot more playful on exit while the S3 cup is a lot more planted and 'on rails' so it kinda depends on what you're looking for.
Keep in mind: the 2ZR in the S3 Cup has more torque in the low-band so it is more comfortable to drive in the city because it needs less revs and build quality on S3's has been up'ed a lot in my opinion.

Exige 220 sounds better, has higher rev-limit and a weaker gearbox. I love the Exige 220 but I personally would always go for the S3 Cup, preferably a MY17.5 with the improved open gear linkage.

[Mr 🦊]

Thanks! I totally agree on all fronts. I’ve read that the S2 Exige’s are a bit more lively on exit, but you never know whether to believe what you read these days!

You’ve pretty much answered my main concern which was the available torque. Coming from an M140i which has one of the best engines I’ve driven (in a smallish car) I was worried that the S2 would only feel quick when ringing it’s neck. 

I am looking for ‘on rails’ but in comparison to the M140, both the S2 and S3 are going to wipe the floor with it. Handling isn’t it’s strong point... 

I’ll definitely test drive a few, but it sounds like newer will offer everything and older will hold value and feel a little more raw. The budget is sadly not big enough for the open linkage. Complete work of art!

[Petrolgeneration]

3 hours ago, Mr 🦊 said:

Thanks! I totally agree on all fronts. I’ve read that the S2 Exige’s are a bit more lively on exit, but you never know whether to believe what you read these days!

You’ve pretty much answered my main concern which was the available torque. Coming from an M140i which has one of the best engines I’ve driven (in a smallish car) I was worried that the S2 would only feel quick when ringing it’s neck. 

I am looking for ‘on rails’ but in comparison to the M140, both the S2 and S3 are going to wipe the floor with it. Handling isn’t it’s strong point... 

I’ll definitely test drive a few, but it sounds like newer will offer everything and older will hold value and feel a little more raw. The budget is sadly not big enough for the open linkage. Complete work of art!

Having a daily with 847nM (625ish fout pound of torque) I can honestly say I've never felt disappointed with the Cup 250. It feels lively over the whole rev-band so I can assure you, lack of torque won't be an issue!
I actually love driving mine, even in city traffic. My modified C63 is only fun at high speeds, hard acceleration or when making ridiculous noise while I enjoy the Elise even at slow speeds due to the steering response. I've driven a lot of high-end sportscars and supercars and for me personally Lotus really was an eye-opener. Less really is more! 

Have you considered test driving one?

Edited May 29, 2020 by Petrolgeneration

[scotty435]

I went from a S2 Exige 240 to a cup 250 and have to be honest the cup was a little disappointing in comparison with the S2. Cup a great car but never put a smile on my face like S2 could especially when you it the 8500 rev limiter getting there use to make the hairs stand up on the back of my neck and the supercharge wine was unbelievable, the supercharger is nearly impossible to hear on the Cup and lacks the frantic nature of the 2ZZ engine from the S2. Cups are much better built and and quality of materials much better. It’s a hard choice between the two but have to say if it was my money I would look for a nice well looked after S2.

[Mr 🦊]

2 hours ago, scotty435 said:

I went from a S2 Exige 240 to a cup 250 and have to be honest the cup was a little disappointing in comparison with the S2. Cup a great car but never put a smile on my face like S2 could especially when you it the 8500 rev limiter getting there use to make the hairs stand up on the back of my neck and the supercharge wine was unbelievable, the supercharger is nearly impossible to hear on the Cup and lacks the frantic nature of the 2ZZ engine from the S2. Cups are much better built and and quality of materials much better. It’s a hard choice between the two but have to say if it was my money I would look for a nice well looked after S2.

There’s the ‘spanner  in the works’! Did the supercharge wine never get annoying? I’ve never owned a supercharged motor before. 

 

It definitely sounds like both need test driving. It would be so good to be able to drive them back to back, though Almost impossible unless a dealer has both!

 

Were you bothered by the S2 not being an open top? I love the idea of getting the roof off, but that probably because the U.K. has seen 4 weeks of relatively nice weather and let’s face it, that’s not exactly the norm!

[Mr 🦊]

10 hours ago, Petrolgeneration said:

Having a daily with 847nM (625ish fout pound of torque) I can honestly say I've never felt disappointed with the Cup 250. It feels lively over the whole rev-band so I can assure you, lack of torque won't be an issue!
I actually love driving mine, even in city traffic. My modified C63 is only fun at high speeds, hard acceleration or when making ridiculous noise while I enjoy the Elise even at slow speeds due to the steering response. I've driven a lot of high-end sportscars and supercars and for me personally Lotus really was an eye-opener. Less really is more! 

Have you considered test driving one?

Music to my ears!
 

Couple of us tried to tick the daily and sports box with the M140’s and whilst they are unbelievably quick in a straight line, they disappoint/want to kill you, the second it rains or the roads aren’t straight and under 40 degrees c! I see why BMW made them, because thousands of muppets like me went out and bought them! If they had an M3 touring, I’d have bought that. Not a saloon man.

 

Test driving is the next stage, just waiting for the world to heel itself a bit more. Mad times... but it’s slowly getting there. 

[scotty435]

Like the S2 the Cup originally was meant to be a hard top only when it was launched as the S Cup and 220 and like  the S2 the roof can still removed if that is what you want. The Cup only became a soft top when the 250 was launched and I spec’d mine with a hard top and in the time of ownership two and a half year I removed one time. The 2ZZ engine in the S2 is just intoxicating. Like it’s been mentioned you need to drive them both. If you are looking at a S Cup or 220 be warned the interior is a bit low rent some very poor materials for the cost of the car when new, with the launch of the 250 came a massive improvement with interior trim.

[Mr 🦊]

The budget definitely isn’t going to push to a 250 Cup. I’ve looked at an S Cup but no test drive yet... doesn’t seem to much (any) difference between that and the Cup 220. Just a rebrand. Kinda like that the S Cup is the original of that era of toughened Elise. 

You are not the only person who has told me that the removable hard tops are all very well, but they tend to stay put. If you’re going on a long drive, you need it, and nowhere to store it... so unless it’s a drive away from and back to home, I see your point. 

No doubt though, the adjectives that seem to accompany the letters 2ZZ does sound fun if the toy is only going to use for the benefit of smiles!! I wasn’t even going to test drive one a few weeks ago because I had convinced myself to buy the newer engineering... but on you advices and with the added value of holding their prices, I think I’m going have to! 

[Neal H]

I’ve not owned an S2 Exige - I did test drive one a few years ago but couldn’t agree a deal with the dealer  I have owned a 2-11 though which had the 2ZZ engine and I can’t argue with the fact it’s probably the perfect engine for a high performance Elise. The later engine is a bit dull in comparison, but I wouldn’t let that be a deciding factor - it’s better low down torque makes it more drivable.

I’ve never noticed any significant differences in refinement between an Elise with a hard top and a soft top (they’re both noisy!) and the soft top is just as water tight if properly adjusted, so I think the hard top is redundant unless you prefer how it looks.

S2 Exige or S3 Cup? I think the S2 Exige has almost reached classic status and prices are probably on the up (pre-Covid anyway). Unless you drive it and add miles of course. If you want a garage queen and plan minimal miles then it’s a great car and you may even make a profit on it in future.

An early Elise Cup won’t depreciate much now and as an ownership proposition represents great value - it genuinely is the spiritual successor to the S2 Exige.

I’d say stay open minded. Take a look at what is available in both types and pick one that really catches your eye. I usually find that when looking I’ll eventually spot one and think “Oooh I really like that!” Either way, I guarantee you won’t be disappointed 😁

[Mr 🦊]

Thanks Neal, great reply 👍🏻
 

As you have correctly picked up on, I’m keen on a toys depreciation not being too high... or even non-existent... tough with cars. 
 

seems to me that mechanically the S2 Exige 2ZZ’s are strong and reliable, maybe due to their Japanese origins and easy lives pushing a lightweight car! 
 

Mad a few enquires so I’ll loop back! 
 

🙌🏻

Please read this - 

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Bibs

[philcool]

Have owned an Exige S2 240 now for 7 years have done 28k miles in it and only problems a new radiator as the plastic header ends split and 2 batteries and one failed LED on the rear light and have changed the Toyota plastic header tank other than that just servicing 

And changed the exhaust as original lotus stage 2 noiesey and droned at speed so fitted a 2bular lovely build quality and great sound and easey to fit 

 

The 2ZZ is a cracking engine spins up a treat never burnt a drop of oil but would suggest if you can check the ECU print out if you can as I think some people can get overly enthusaistac with the rev limit and although going up the gears is protected coming down isn't other than that and a few rattles and squeaks it's been a blast.

Improvements I thing would definitely be the new open linkage gear shifter and proberbly overall slightly better build quality but what ever you choose I don't think your be disappointed 

[Petrolgeneration]

On 30/05/2020 at 17:14, philcool said:

Have owned an Exige S2 240 now for 7 years have done 28k miles in it and only problems a new radiator as the plastic header ends split and 2 batteries and one failed LED on the rear light and have changed the Toyota plastic header tank other than that just servicing 

I've had my Cup 250 since june 2019 and with winter storage and covid storage (so about 4-7 months november till may) I already did 9300 miles? haha

Guess I drive mine too much then

Edited June 2, 2020 by Petrolgeneration

[philcool]

No I don't drive mine enough 

[Gashead1105]

I had a 2008 S2 Exige Sprint from 2011 to 2015. Did 15,000 miles, many trackdays, modified it a fair bit - basically I loved it at the time. However, there's no way I would pay the prices that they are going for now when, for basically the same amount of money, one can buy a decade newer S3 Elise 250 cup. Will Blackham has had a couple up over the lockdown period at c37k, and either one of them would have been where my money went (I think he's sold one already though). Personally I'd take one over a c40k V6 powered Exige every single time. I've had a V6 exige as well, which I also loved for the power and brutality of the drive, but in my view both the Elise and the Evora are better cars than the V6 Exige...

I was chatting to someone at Snetterton yesterday evening actually. I think the current Elises are tremendous for what they are, if you want to do loads of trackdays a year the Elise Cup is a total winner in my opinion. So adjustable with the throttle, low running costs, looks great, more than quick enough in a straight line, amazing to drive, reliable. If I had more garage space (and money) I'd love to have a 250 in there along with the Evora... 

[Bibs]

@philcool, use it for work. You only need to throw a few spanners and a roll of PTFE tape in the boot.

[697OK]

8 hours ago, Gashead1105 said:

 I'd love to have a 250 in there along with the Evora... 

Have to agree with that Will

 

April9 by S, on Flickr

[Neal H]

The perfect pair 👍

[Mr 🦊]

Definitely just bought an S-Cup!! 
 

Thank you for all the advice. In the end it made sense to buy as new as I could, within the Cup Elises. I kind of also liked that the S-Cup was the first variant of what is now the 220 and 250, directly from the S-Cup R. During the test drive, I never felt it lacked power on the B-roads and even on relatively worn tires, it felt like serious traction forces were in action! 
 

I’ll throw some pics up when it’s on the driveway! Unbelievably excited to become a Lotus owner. Dreamt about this for decades! Thanks again 🙌🏻

[Bibs]

Nice one James, congrats mate 

[scotty435]

Toxic Green James?

[Mr 🦊]

Carbon Grey...

[scotty435]

Great colour for a Cup congratulations on your new purchase you will love it 👍

[Mr 🦊]

Thanks Guys 🙌🏻. Collecting first thing Saturday morning.. pray for no rain for me!

Anyone know what the production run was on the S-Cups? I’ve never one of them on the roads, although I do indirectly know another owner of a 250Cup.

[Hangar 111]

2 hours ago, Mr 🦊 said:

Anyone know what the production run was on the S-Cups?

S Cup itself only lived for about 3 months before it became 220 Cup.  Not sure if the lairy bodykit was changed for MY16 (when Sport 220 appeared) or slightly later (when Cup 250 first appeared)... I think it might be the latter, but pre MY17.5.

Dave