Exige Cup 430 lap times

[Cemil Tacir]

Hi Guys,

Have anyone recorded their Exige CUP 430 lap times in a track?

I am really curious that how it compares to 991.1 GT3RS's and 718 GT4's. Due that it is a very special and a limited car, there aren't many lap times by journalists and professional drivers.

Also, do you think that there is much difference between CUP430 and Sport 410?

[Paul_D]

That's an interesting question.

The problem with comparing them to other cars from the perspective of track day drivers is that the driver can have far more of an effect than the car. That said, my gut feeling from being on track with them is that GT3 RS is quicker and a GT4 is probably in roughly the same ballpark if it's a manual car. PDK will save you a lot of time.

As for 410 vs 430? I personally believe that there's very little difference between them. The tyres, brakes and suspension are obviously identical. The 430 has marginally more power, but I've compared videos on youtube, and even at a really long straight like at Snetterton the top speed difference is only 2 - 3 mph. Downforce - the 430 has a quoted figure of 220kg vs 150kg for the 410 . But that is probably quoted at top speed. The difference at real life fast cornering speeds 80 - 100mph is likely to be 30 or so kg? I'm not sure how many 'normal' trackday drivers would be able to notice or exploit that difference.

It may or may not be significant that Hethel never posted the lap time for the 410...

Having said that, I'd still have a 430 over a 410 if funds allowed. It's the top dog, and the most special out of all of them. 

[Cemil Tacir]

Thank you for the answer. Just like you said, the downforce and the speed differences wouldn't differ too much. I asked this because in Anglesey Coastal, the CUP 430 destroys a lot of cars on lap times. However, in German and French tests, the results are not good. Most of the people in here knows and have driven porsches, ferraris and knows how their Lotus' compare to them.

[chumaxa]

1 hour ago, Cemil Tacir said:

Hi Guys,

Have anyone recorded their Exige CUP 430 lap times in a track?

I am really curious that how it compares to 991.1 GT3RS's and 718 GT4's. Due that it is a very special and a limited car, there aren't many lap times by journalists and professional drivers.

Also, do you think that there is much difference between CUP430 and Sport 410?

It is not due to the limited factor that the car is not much driven by journalist, but because Lotus does not give it to the journalist .. As ligth the car is, and as powerful the engine is, it does not have the grip or composure of a Porsche, pretty sure it would be faster than a Gt4 in the hand of the same pro driver. 

[jimichanga]

If the 430 makes more downforce and therefore more drag then you need more than ‘marginally more power’ to go 3mph quicker down a straight. What is the basis for believing that PDK saves you ‘a lot of time’? I don’t believe that’s the case with skilled driver. Your average joe will of course be quicker in the easier auto but the milliseconds saved in shift time does not add up to much. Just another internet myth.

Car magazine laptimes have become very political and manipulated by car makers, Ferrari have cars specially prepared for track tests, Porsche use prototype tyres and stripped out cars for laptimes. Nissan did eventually offer the same spec GTR as their Nurburgring laptime car for sale it was massively changed and hugely expensive (six figures on top of the base car purchase). Nobody bought one. God knows what Lambo have been doing to get such crazy laptimes. Lotus have probably been a bit more naiive and given stock press cars for the comparisons having neither the budget nor inclination to cheat which is ironic given how well that worked for them in F1! Heavy cars need only be fast for one lap too. Lotus real world advantage is being fast all day. On trackdays the most capable driver will be fastest in either of the three cars you mention.

Edited March 8, 2022 by jimichanga

[Paul_D]

31 minutes ago, jimichanga said:

 What is the basis for believing that PDK saves you ‘a lot of time’? I don’t believe that’s the case with skilled driver. Your average joe will of course be quicker in the easier auto but the milliseconds saved in shift time does not add up to much. Just another internet myth.

A 'lot of time' is obviously relative, but my basis is purely from personal experience. I've been doing track days for lots of years now in a few different cars I've owned,  two of which were PDK Porsches. 

There is virtually no power interruption or loss of speed during PDK gearchanges. The Lotus on the other hand does not have a gearbox in which you can rush changes in my experience. This is especially true going from 3rd to 4th and 4th to 5th. Looking at my AIM data (and other Exige videos), changing from 4th to 5th causes a drop in speed of 2-3mph during the change. That 2-3mph has to then be recovered once you're back on the power to get back to where you were. During that one change alone the Porsche has gained 4 to 6mph. Over a lap those changes will add up, but whether you consider that to be 'significant' or not is subjective.

The PDK also makes it much easier for a non-professional (i.e. 99.9% of us) driver to brake much more consistently and accurately, not having to worry about heel and toe or taking one hand off the wheel when you're trail braking into the apex.

This difference is obviously narrowed if you're a pro and you're not worried about mechanical sympathy in the slightest, but that's not most of the people on this forum. 

It's not scientific, but this magazine found the PDK GT4 to be 1.2 seconds a lap quicker than the manual. And I would argue that the GT4 box is much easier to shift quickly in than the Exige box. https://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/282/articles/automatically-better#:~:text=All in all%2C the PDK's,1%3A32.78).

This article was a bit more technical and used VBOX data to analyse time lost, and claimed 0.9 seconds difference over a track only 2 miles long. https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a13442203/dual-clutch-vs-manual-on-track/

[jimichanga]

I certainly don’t consider 0.9 seconds ‘a lot of time’. Just usual internet exaggeration. Tyres, geo set-up and dampers can all make up more difference than that on their own. Driving tuition could easily find over 10 secs a lap for most of those claiming DCT is ‘massively quicker’!

[34Vette]

if driven by same driver and in same tire

430 cup laptime is about the same as 991.1 GT3 

but faster than GT4 for sure

gt3rs is way faster , higher corner speed and faster acceleration

[Cemil Tacir]

Very good then. Thank you for your response.