Israel-Gaza war

[C8RKH]

Reading this. Any pity I had for Israeli's is slowly being eroded by the acts of theft and aggression from the israeli settler movement. Anywhere else and their would be a huge outcry and a massive backlash at what is being done to innocent families and people - it is tantamount to state sponsored terrorism and aggression as the state stands by and allows it to happen.

From BBC today:

 

Who wouldn't want a house on the beach? For some on Israel's far-right, desirable beachfront now includes the sands of Gaza.

Just ask Daniella Weiss, 78, the grandmother of Israel's settler movement, who says she already has a list of 500 families ready to move to Gaza immediately.

"I have friends in Tel Aviv," she says, "so they say, 'Don't forget to keep for me a plot near the coast in Gaza,' because it's a beautiful, beautiful coast, beautiful golden sand".

She tells them the plots on the coast are already booked.

Mrs Weiss heads a radical settler organisation called Nachala, or homeland. For decades, she has been kickstarting Jewish settlements in the Israeli-occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem, on Palestinian land captured by Israel in the 1967 Middle East war.

.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

The Russians were doing the same in Ukraine. They were gleefully selecting and trading sea front housing plots in Mariupol, whilst their army was busy razing the city to the ground.

[EGTE]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

Reading this. Any pity I had for Israeli's is slowly being eroded by the acts of theft and aggression from the israeli settler movement. Anywhere else and their would be a huge outcry and a massive backlash at what is being done to innocent families and people - it is tantamount to state sponsored terrorism and aggression as the state stands by and allows it to happen.

From BBC today:

 

Who wouldn't want a house on the beach? For some on Israel's far-right, desirable beachfront now includes the sands of Gaza.

Just ask Daniella Weiss, 78, the grandmother of Israel's settler movement, who says she already has a list of 500 families ready to move to Gaza immediately.

"I have friends in Tel Aviv," she says, "so they say, 'Don't forget to keep for me a plot near the coast in Gaza,' because it's a beautiful, beautiful coast, beautiful golden sand".

She tells them the plots on the coast are already booked.

Mrs Weiss heads a radical settler organisation called Nachala, or homeland. For decades, she has been kickstarting Jewish settlements in the Israeli-occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem, on Palestinian land captured by Israel in the 1967 Middle East war.

.

Is this actually going to happen, though? Quoting a radical organisation doesn't make it government policy.

[C8RKH]

8 minutes ago, EGTE said:

Quoting a radical organisation doesn't make it government policy.

Given Netanyahu's governments track record of arming settlers, and not prosecuting them for shooting Palestinians, looting, bulldozing legitimate homes and stealing property to date, what makes you think this is not already not happening? Plenty of evidence out there to prove it is happening right now. And whilst it might not be Government "policy" their continued lack of action shows they do not condone it.

35 minutes ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

The Russians were doing the same in Ukraine. They were gleefully selecting and trading sea front housing plots in Mariupol, whilst their army was busy razing the city to the ground.

So maybe we should put the same sanctions on to Israel now then?

[EGTE]

1 minute ago, C8RKH said:

Given Netanyahu's governments track record of arming settlers, and not prosecuting them for shooting Palestinians, looting, bulldozing legitimate homes and stealing property to date, what makes you think this is not already not happening? Plenty of evidence out there to prove it is happening right now. And whilst it might not be Government "policy" their continued lack of action shows they do not condone it.

So maybe we should put the same sanctions on to Israel now then?

I haven't heard of a single Israeli settlement in Gaza since they gave it all to the Palestinians what 18 years ago? So I'd say it isn't happening as of yet.

[C8RKH]

So @EGTE you have not seen the verified evidence of Israeli settlers encroaching on to their Palestinian neighbours land. Forcing their flocks onto that land and then claiming it through grazing rights? Or the Israeli settlers who have been armed and forcing out Palestinians from their legal homes? Or the settlers bulldozers moving in and clearing long established homes?

I hope you drive your car with your eyes more open. There is plenty of evidence, all validated, of the incursions, the thefts of land and home, and the expulsions of normal families who have lived in peace for decades.

Israel is going too far.

 

 

[EGTE]

Show me the evidence and don't attack my driving; that's totally uncalled for.

[Kimbers]

Lets keep it Civil please everyone.

 

[EGTE]

That would make a nice change.

[bogle]

The USA should stop funding Israel and cut them off until a cease fire is in place.  Additionally they reduce the funding until a two state solution is put in place.

[C8RKH]

2 hours ago, EGTE said:

Show me the evidence

I apologize for having a joke at your driving.

Please watch this:

Also this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67173344#:~:text=In one of the most,soldier appeared to look on.

And this:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/20/inside-the-eviction-of-palestinians-losing-their-jerusalem-home

And then there is:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/03/04/israel-west-bank-settlers-attacks-palestinians#:~:text=By September%2C 2023%2C the United,West Bank had been displaced.

The evidence against Israeli settlers encroaching on, and pushing out Palestinians from their legal homes and self owned land, is solid and factual and beyond refute.

I HAD every sympathy for Israel and Israeli's after the atrocious attack by Hamas. But a response that has seen well over innocent Palestinians 20,000 killed (women, children, men, and babies), more then 80,000 people injured and maimed (women, children, men and babies) is NOT a controlled and proportionate response. Add in to that the forced restrictions on aid being delivered, 1.1m directly affected by starvation and over 2m people being displaced from their homes and I would call it barbaric!

[EGTE]

Okay watched those videos and read the article.

The BBC one and the Al Jazeira pieces are about the West Bank.  The Al Jazeira one is the demolition of an illegal house.

There's no proof whatsoever of your assertion that Israelis are moving into Gaza.

 

You might want to watch this:, starting at 3:00 to save time:

 

[C8RKH]

Apologies, getting my Gaza and West Bank mixed up - however, the result is the same, Israeli settlers illegally displacing, harassing, and maiming lawful Palestinians, chasing them from their homes, bull dozing them, and clearing them for Israeli settlers to move in, illegally. What makes you think it won't happen in Gaza too?

 

What Israel is doing, right now, is, according to my morals and values, wrong and immoral, on so many foundations and fronts. I believe, that like with Russia, it is now all in support of one man (who as far as I know is under suspicion of breach of trust, fraud and bribery laws) who is desperate to retain a grip on power. This is, in my very humble opinion, no longer about justice for the victims of the heinous Hamas attack.

[Barrykearley]

Frankly these warmongering criminals need taking to task. Same should go for Tony Blair. 

[EGTE]

They won't do it in Gaza because Israel officially gave Gaza to the Palestinians. Did you watch the video? I think it explains very well that Hamas is the genocidal party here and Israel is defending itself after an attack by them. So yes it's like Russia, but as if they had picked a fight with the USA instead of Ukraine. Hamas=Russia.

[C8RKH]

I find it hard to accept that Israel is just defending itself when it has slaughtered over 28,000, mostly civilians, is forcing over 1.1m into starvation and has maimed and injured over 80,000. But we can each choose to believe what we want to believe.

As for Israel handing Gaza over to the Palestinians, my best guess is that this is Israel taking a significant chunk of it back. Netanyahu seems intent on "ruling" the whole territory.

We can disagree, without falling out, as we live in a democracy that currently, despite some politicians best intents, allows the freedom of expression and speech.

I have nothing against Israel, or Israelis, except a deep rooted sense of injustice for the way they are operating right now, the suffering and loss they are delivering, and their deliberate withholding of aid to those so desperately in need. As a nation brought about by so much injustice and suffering of their people, you would have thought they'd have taken a more compassionate approach, as opposed to a draconian, destructive, one.

[Barrykearley]

Saying Israel is acting proportionately is like saying Adolf Hitler was misunderstood.

[EGTE]

I don't actually remember saying that they are.

[C8RKH]

On 25/03/2024 at 18:56, EGTE said:

Hamas=Russia

In this case I actually think Israel is behaving like Russia in Ukraine. Although Israel, unlike Russia, was of course provoked, most heinously.

The Israeli targeting of civilians and civilian infrastructure is just as cynical as Russia in Ukraine and is now being just as widely condemned.

As I said before, I doubt we will agree, but that is OK as different points of view form, or frame, a debate.

[Barrykearley]

24 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

As I said before, I doubt we will agree, but that is OK as different points of view form, or frame, a debate.

Wind it in - you’ll offend the lefties

[bogle]

53 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

Wind it in - you’ll offend the lefties

Don't worry not offended. I would prefer to have Yahu and Putin removed from office (the method of which doesn't matter).  Both are using far right tactics and behaving poorly.  Putin is unbalanced with delusions of grandeur whereas Yahu is out for vengeance (approximately thousands of years in the making).  Their paths are same in regard to eliminating all roadblocks in their way to accomplish unachievable and unrealistic goals.  If the USA and other NATO countries fail to stop both of these dictators* (disguised as democracies), then the world continues to head in a sad direction.  

Ok, technically Yahu is pseudo-dictator just like Trump.  However, Yahu and Putin don't appear to have a massive inferiority complex.

[C8RKH]

10 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Wind it in - you’ll offend the lefties

People can take offence if it stops the killing, maiming and starvation 

Put religion and politics and race aside and you are just left with people. Families. Who want to live life. Make the right memories.

Religion is responsible for more human deaths than anything else.

I personally believe organised religion, the groups that thrive and survive through it (which includes the various christian churches), are bordering on evil. They pray on people to generate wealth and project power for their own good and benefit.

Maybe we should ban religion in all its commercial forms.

A timely example of their lust for power and influence and the problems it causes:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/26/clapham-attacker-abdul-ezedi-christianity-asylum/

[C8RKH]

Seven food aid workers killed in Gaza. Israel tells the UN to dismantle the UNrwa relief agency, the one that is responsible for 90% of the aid being circulated, and the Israeli Government has passed a law to allow it to block Al Jazeera (and any others it deems unfit) news teams from Broadcasting. This is the primary source of independent news covering what is happening in Gaza.

This is draconian and in the extreme. If the shoe was on the other foot you could imagine the outrage. The world needs to intervene and stop this. Now.

The calls and protests from within Israel to halt Netanyahu are growing as Israeli's more and more realise he is out of control. He should be held to account like Putin should be.

Israel has every right to defend itself, and its citizens, but this has, in my very humble opinion, gone well beyond that.

[bogle]

2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Israel has every right to defend itself, and its citizens, but this has, in my very humble opinion, gone well beyond that.

I completely agree.  Netanyahu has gone too far.  He's attempting to hold on to power using this war to keep himself in office.  Just awful.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

You’ve got to wonder whether Hamas really thought this through. After the gleeful hysteria of that attack on 7th October, their very existence and that of their friends, families and neighbours in Gaza is on the line. Probably 33,000 dead so far, many of whom would have been part of that Hamas incursion. Thousands more facing starvation and relying on international aid. Huge swathes of their land reduced to rubble. Infrastructure decimated. Israeli military acting with impunity all across the Gaza Strip. Is that really what Hamas was hoping for? What have they got in return? A few dozen primarily civilian hostages cooped up in a tunnel somewhere? Of course every sensible person knows Netanyahu has gone too far, but Hamas themselves gave him this opportunity.