Renault found guilty in spying case

[USAndretti42]

Following the record $100,000,000 fine levied against McLaren for receiving information from Ferrari employees they placed a charge against Renault saying that they received information from an ex-McLaren engineer they hired.

The cases are similar. McLaren received 780 pages from Ferrari, Renault 762 pages on 11 disks. There was no proof that either team used any of the information in the design of their cars.

There are differences. There was no evidence that senior McLaren engineers apart from Mike Coughlan who was suspended as soon as suspicions were raised, saw the Ferrari data but one of the McLaren drawings taken to Renault was on the desk of the chief designer's desk for several months and another on the desk of another designer. There was no what was called "live" data going to Renault, only the original inforamation.

But those differences do not seem big enough to for Renault to get no punishment whatsoever. Also, the FIA have examined their 2008 car and concluded that it carries no McLaren technology while McLaren has to wait until the middle of February to be signed off as legal. Sounds like a tactic to try to stop McLaren stirring things up more.

Any thoughts on why the punishments for two such similar offenses were so different?

[Advantage]

Because Renault weren't challenging Ferrari for championship points.

[mwmackenzie]

FARSE!! Absolute bollox, I hope Mclaren pipe up and get this sorted!!!

[hilly]

The FIA are being totally inconsistent with there rulings over the last few hearings it beggars belief !!!!

It is so damaging to F1 it is spoiling it as events off track are deciding who wins.

They need a reality check !!!!!!!

Hilly

[redshift]

Dont forget that the 'decision' on the Mclaren car was subtly scheduled for the day before......

"Listen Ron, we will ok the car if you dont appeal the fact that we plan to let Renault off the hook...."

And now the 'decision' on the Mclaren car is deferred until just before the 2008 season starts.

Any guesses that they will 'find' something that will be too late to redesign??

This is all the result of a spiteful vendetta against Ron Dennis for daring to try and set up a break-away series a few years ago.

The UK representative of the FIA council has now created a petition for a vote of no confidence in MM:

http://www.gopetition.com/online/15656.html

Please read.

Oh and MM is going to sue the Times newspaper for daring to suggest that this is a personal vendetta.

I dont think the Times has lost a case yet and I just hope the damages are around the 100M $ area....

[peter_england99]

This made an interesting read.

http://news.scotsman.com/opinion.cfm?id=1919592007

Regards,

Peter.

[Mark Blanchard]

This is really putting my off F1. Renault should have been punished as McLaren were. The bureaucracy and double standards and is getting in the way of the sport. If McLaren don't get their car passed in February, I won't be watching F1 anymore.

[hilly]

If McLaren don't get their car passed in February, I won't be watching F1 any more.

You won't be the only one......

Hilly

[Sunbeam Fanatic]

Maybe Max isn't anti McLaren per se but he is certainly anti Ron, they don't seem to get on at all, couple this with Bernie being pro Ferrari and McLaren have the odds stacked against them, hopefully when Ron retires he'll see fit to write his memoirs ..... it may not be a riveting read but it may be interesting!

Cheers,

Steven.

Edited December 12, 2007 by Sunbeam Fanatic

[markt]

You won't be the only one......

Hilly

^^^ Ditto ^^^

From a diehard F1 fan and McLaren supporter for more than 15 years, I think I watched 3 races this year... Next year 0?

[wiseraven]

I haven't missed a single race since the 60s. This latest fiasco comes as no surprise to me. The sport has always been biased towards Ferrari. Whenever a decision has been taken over whether a technology should be allowed or not, it has always gone in Ferrari's favour. If it was Ferrari's innovation, or if they were quick to capitalize on someone else's developments, the technology was approved. If they were slow to catch up, and were at a disadvantage, it was guaranteed to be banned. The effect was not "disallow it if it gives a team an unfair advantage", but rather "disallow it if it would make Ferrari more competitive".

As both constructor and engine supplier, Ferrari get double the votes of most of the other teams, but this isn't sufficient to explain how they ALWAYS get the decision that suits them. There is, and has been for many years, something seriously wrong with the way the sport is administered. This latest farce however takes things to whole new level. It is so obviously crooked that it brings the entire sport into disrepute, far more than the spying (which has of course been going on for many years to some degree in all teams).

At the time of the McLaren/Ferrari judgement, it was said that the punishment had to be so extreme in order to demonstrate that the FIA took seriously its role as the arbiter of fair play. What utter, contemptible crap! The Renault decision has shown that they couldn't give a damn about fair play. From where I'm sat, the impression is that the only thing that matters is who greases the palms of those in power. As Ron Dennis has shown repeatedly (including voluntarily 'fessing up after having already been acquitted), he is genuinely interested in fair play. I imagine that also extends to not pandering to Max Mosley's megalomaniacal tendencies.

I have no doubt that the furore surrounding the McLaren case was at least partly responsible for Hamilton's relatively poor end to the season, and therefore the reason he is not the World Champion - something that both Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone said they did not want to see. They should both go.

[USAndretti42]

Well now McLaren has issued an apology after the publication of the FIA report the 2008 car is cleared to run. The report concluded that Mclaren usd Ferrari insider knowledge in development of brake systems but the evidence does not look proving beyond reasonable doubt.

Still don't know how Renault got off so lightly, though.