Octane - Extensive Write Up

[matk]

The thing is with the early cars that "natural selection" over the years has meant those that are left are generally in the hands of people who love them, look after them properly and they're in good condition. As the years roll by this is going to lessen the perceived gap in reliability to the S3 cars. In effect after 30 years plus (which the S1 and S2 are entering and the S3 will soon) it doesn't really matter what the engineering integrity of the car was when first built, it's more about current condition.

Maybe I'm biased but I can see the S2 becoming a lot more desirable. The S1 has always had the Bond factor to keep it's price relatively higher and ensure more were restored, but if demand increases, the S2 is cheaper while retaining a lot of the purity of the S1 looks. There are not as many restored S2 cars about so if demand increases, there aren't enough around to supply.

[M Blur]

what tends to happen is that the different marks will move at different pace.. value tends to gravitate to the early cars over the long-term but it will vary on the number produced, improvements.. however suffice to say the most expensive in the market are not always considered the best by inside loti circles and the increasing values are dependant on new money coming in to own these cars.

What I never get is folks splitting hairs about one or the other.. the interest is good for all cars.. go with it and you'll all benefit in time. If you think S2 and S3 are more desired then great - pick up a bargain, if the market agrees with you they wont stay a bargain for long.. in 5 yrs it might be the late-model Stevens cars or the later v8s - you got to remember how classic residuals move in relation to depreciation.. late cars are still moving through their depreciation, their higher value means they are the last to pick up the uplift.. values always follows the money, money follows the interest, interest changes as type of owners turnover..

Personally I'd love a JPS.. it's a personal preference.. a G car in black and gold commemorating the glory yrs.. as they say it's all good

[Bazza 907]

It's a pretty small pic (2.5" bottom right of page 65) and I think it's just one of the library "side view" shots of our ice-blue S3s which used to appear in the brochures around that time. Possible I've missed something though!

It is small but it's a photo of my car taken at the factory about 14 years ago by William Taylor and first used in his The Lotus Book (yellow one) - I was standing behind the white cotton sheet holding it up !

I thought that the Octane piece was one of the best ones I've read about our cars for quite some time. It was great to see something that didn't have huge mistakes in it and was upbeat.

It makes a pleasant change to see a detailed (& positive) report about the cars and one which suggests that prices are going up. I look at those G turbos and S3's on the LEW site and think that they're simply too cheap bearing in mind the cost of spare parts alone. When these are going for sub

[Mark Blanchard]

Thanks to David Lillywhite for writing such a positive article.

It's a pretty small pic and I think it's just one of the library "side view" shots of our ice-blue S3s which used to appear in the brochures around that time. Possible I've missed something though!

Some of the "Library Picture" along the side came from brochures and some I took at Donnington last year.

[M Blur]

one of the early catalysts/signs of classic appreciation is when the rough examples are swallowed up and become thin on the ground due to breaking for spares.. this also reduces the total number of cars with a rising interest pool of new buyers.. this can quickly turn into a bit of a frenzy. We're not maybe talking a market the size of the 901-930 911 but the sheer difference in number of cars means it doesn't have to.. no reason these cars shouldn't be priced in line with similar contemporaries of the time..

rising kudos in the old cars can only be a good thing for Lotus product development.. the Esprit's halo should shine far more than it ever did in the past..

[cbclotus]

Well i for one think ever Esprit ever built is a fantastic car.When i owned my S1 . 22Years ago .The s1 was the cheapest Esprit you could buy.I was then friendly with a guy who used to buy damaged Esprits .He repaired two S2s both frontal damage .And one s3 .The point i am trying to make is i always wanted the next model .and went on to own as s2 s3 then i think the best looking Esprit a turbo .Circumstances changed with my daughter coming along shes now 13...........Ithink the S3 is a great car with the running gear of the turbo better engine suspention etc .i will just quote a few words from the first Jeremy Walton published .The Esprit3 we tried had the optional larger wheels and tyres ,providing a convincing demonstration of why many insiders feel this is simplythe best Lotus yet .Turbo included. If i had the money i would buy a Turbo .Maybe one day .cheers Mike

[Bibs]

I sent David Lillywhite an email on behalf of us owners today to thank him for a well researched and informative article. It's nice to see a positive article about our cars and to be fair if that's read by the right people then values will start to increase at a decent rate

[esprit350]

top idea Bibs, thank you

[tonyp]

As above, thanks, Bibs, a nice touch. My daughter bought me a copy of Octane for my birthday the other day & read it through in an alcoholic haze.. A nice surprise (the Esprit bit that is !) Never read the mag before, actually quite nice, will read again this weekend.

[Quicker]

very nice article indeed. It almost makes it seem like my recent purchase was a wise investment and even a bit trendy....

Which sounds a lot better than I just spoiled myself with a love of driving a quick handling auto, a project to qwench my need for continually working on cars, and satified the ultimate supercar shape imprinted in my mind....

[simon gleave]

Bibs,

Thats a great idea!! and i must say having read the article that it was very accurate in the detail of the different models and a very useful list with pics to identify different cars. Not all write ups get the facts right and then they show some bloody awful pics that dont show the cars off......

Well done Octane!!!!!!!

[cly_mitchell]

I've been to a couple of shops this evening but no luck. I'll hope to pick up a copy tomorrow and will scan it for our overseas cousins

Thanks, cuz!

very nice article indeed. It almost makes it seem like my recent purchase was a wise investment and even a bit trendy....

Which sounds a lot better than I just spoiled myself with a love of driving a quick handling auto, a project to qwench my need for continually working on cars, and satified the ultimate supercar shape imprinted in my mind....

Hookm Horns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, had to.

Clay

[pyropolymer]

wow great thread

can anyone scan the alternate cover and post it hi-res please?

I bought a better engineered and built S3 with the intentions to make it look like a S2 by changing the bumpers. I would luv to date back the interior as well but that may be too much for me to handle especially when the interior is in excellent shape.

its been decades, I still cant pick between the S1 and S2

cheers

D

[lotustt]

Thanks for the pdf. Good article. Some brief history for those that do not know and some positive comments and outlook.

[Mark Blanchard]

Peter Stevens has written into Octane magazine to congratulate them on the Esprit article. He makes a few points; notably he tried to improved the rigidity of the Esprit body shell over the G shape and reduce it's weight, also the wind tunnel tests for the Stevens shape were originally worst than the Giugiaro shape Cd 0.042 against Cd 0.0330. He said he eventully got it down to 0.320.

Interestingly, he also mentioned he had very little to do with the McLaren F1 design, just tweaked a few details. Funny how history get changed over time.

I'll try and get the letter scanned on Monday.

[nello]

Adding to the approval of a good piece which can only heighten the profile of our beloved supercar.....

Anyone know how they got the build figure listed for each model? I know LEW has data but had no seen any definitive figure for the G Turbo HC before?

[hedgerley]

For anyone interested, this is the definitive production list in Jeremy Waltons Esprit book produced by Esprit expert William Taylors Coterie Press a year or two back. Note the caveats at the bottom. I'm sure the debate on individual models will continue but this list was orginally produced by Lotus themsleves and maintained when the Esprit went out of production, with a couple of modifications by Brian Angus, as the notes say. I haven't compared them with LEWs list.

The book by the way, despite some typos, is an excellent reference with some tremendous insights and rarely seen photos. My Publishers edition even has a pull out copy of the original Guigaro drawing dated 28-2-73, in Italian!

Just in case the notes are illegible:

Sources: William Taylor with Lotus supplied this list originally, please do not try and add individual totals together for a final, because sometimes, as explained, limited editions/race cars are included in two or more type references! Just know that 10,675 has been the total for Esprit output ever since production ceased in February 2004. Some production dates modified by author in light Brian Angus 2004-5 research, signified by this symbol *.

Notes: a- S2 'JPS' badged as 'World Champion' 1977. Our research confirms the first JPS/Special/Black/Commemorative built December 1978, not '77, b- 34 production + 11 development/prototypes.

Edited January 27, 2008 by hedgerley

[pyropolymer]

mark

is this esprit publisher editions still avalible??

kind regards

[hedgerley]

It would seem so.

http://www.coteriepress.com/CP_ProductDeta...mp;Productid=61

As is a "Limited" edition.

http://www.coteriepress.com/CP_ProductDeta...mp;Productid=60

As is the "Normal" edition.

http://www.coteriepress.com/CP_ProductDeta...mp;Productid=59

[pyropolymer]

It would seem so.

http://www.coteriepress.com/CP_ProductDeta...mp;Productid=61

As is a "Limited" edition.

http://www.coteriepress.com/CP_ProductDeta...mp;Productid=60

As is the "Normal" edition.

http://www.coteriepress.com/CP_ProductDeta...mp;Productid=59

mark

thank you kindly for the links

i would love to get the publisher's edition but.... OUCH! $400 usd

our greenbacks are taking a licking.

the normal edition would just have to do for now.

would luv to seem some of the early development photos someday

cheers

PP

[hedgerley]

Not sure about the other editions, but mine has quite a collection of early prototype photos. In fact, there is a series of black and white photos showing the construction of the "Silver Car" by Guigaro in Italy back in 1972.