Forum accounts - Basic Account - Full Forum Member - Club Esprit

[gtt dave j esprit]

It Should be £25 join fee, then £10 years after for renewing

the long term valuable member get the right discount, and the drifters get told or asked to pay up , i seem confused to how excatley i would get more info by joining ? I have read what you have said bibs and understand, but the amount of posts i read without answers is unbelivable,

if the tech section was closed to non member and only genral like on the other club/forum i am part of then maybe the pay system as i stated would work and you would get 1000s of members the with money gained put back into club with track days and parts discount aranged with traders , arrange discounts and do group buy on things that are hard to get. club shop could sell allsorts.

Edited April 9, 2010 by gtt dave j esprit

[Bibs]

You know we already do most of that, right?

[gtt dave j esprit]

Should be £25 join fee, then £10 years after for renewing ?? mabey cheaper get everyone involved and bring the resposabilitys to share information to everyone.

I have so real good pohos to share but find i can post them or any other freescan logs for that matter

If the tech section was closed to non members and only genral was open to no paying like on the other clubs/forums then maybe poeple would share more information.

I'll join when am good and ready And i wont be going away , i'll always be about....

regards dave

Edited April 9, 2010 by gtt dave j esprit

[Laura]

The forum has always been free to use and open to everyone, that's largely the reason for it's success and huge membership base over the years. The more members the more opinions, advice and technical expertise there is available to everyone.

Removing parts of the forum to non-members has been considered in the past and the general conclusion has been that it would not be in the best interests of the forum. I'm not quite sure how closing sections of the forum off to the majority of members will make people share more information, do you feel less inclined to contribute ideas/chat/info/knowledge to the forum because you have the facility to do so?

You mentioned some posts go unanswered, imagine if we closed off the forums to 98% of the people on the forum (that's roughly the percent of non-paying members on the forum)?

Membership has always been voluntary and it is a way of people showing their support for the forum if they wish. In return for that support there are the discounts you already mentioned and an enhanced use of the forum. We already have a 'club shop' (you'll notice a link to it at the top of every page) which does sell all-sorts and greatly helps fund the time and resources that go in to running this forum - plus there's discounts for full forum members.

You join if and when you want to Dave, it's entirely up to you. There's no pressure to join and everyone's opinions and suggestions are always welcome (even twice ) on the subject.

Please don't think that this forum is run flippantly though and things aren't thought through. An awful lot of hours are put in to the running of the site and a great deal of thought is put in to the best way of running it,

[gtt dave j esprit]

Hi laura.

It seems unless i join , certain people dont talk or have opinions. My veiw.

What am saying is if everyone had to join and had to pay a little fee, For what is a good website with beifits all, maybe all people would chip in rather that the paying member sat back looking at a tech question and thinking there not full member am not answering. bibs as said as mush in his post, either pay or your not getting his time, Fair play but if 8000 people all payed 25 , that would be to much money to give back wouldnt it.

Is this a club ? If yes i belive there would be great beifits to get all members to pay, Just so everyone would feel like everyones on the same level and people WOULD post more about peoples problems. otherwise they wouldnt of paid as member and topics started are by member.

the RENAULT TURBO OWNERS CLUB club i am a member has only 800 paid up memeber most only pay£10 everyyear to renew, £25 to join for new members. Had its ups and down and changes but it Started back 1996

Things are All good, just things in life need and should be made more clearer.

regards dave

Edited April 9, 2010 by gtt dave j esprit

[matk]

Dave

I've been here about 5 years, been to various meets, and met many posters face to face. I can honestly say I've never once come across the slightest mention or sniff of anyone choosing to with hold tech advice, because the requester wasn't a paid up member (and that includes Bibs).

If you have that belief, I'd really like to understand why, or on what, you've formed that opinion.

There can be many reasons why tech queries don't get many responses, that can be related to something as simple as not having the time in life to respond.

I'll leave it to Bibs and Laura to quote the actual figs, but I'm extremely confident that on any meaningful measure of statistics, this forum would compare highly favourably with the Renault forum. That's not mean't in a competitive sense, more in support of the stance Bibs takes in running the forum in this way.

[Bibs]

It seems unless i join , certain people dont talk or have opinions. My veiw.

Can you substantiate this at all?

Oh, and is it RTOC you're a member of? In 14 years they've got less than 2,000 members, in 6 years we've got more than 8,100. Who has helped more people?

[wookiecj]

For what it's worth, I feel that if you benefit from the contents of the forum you should make a contribution to the running of it.

As far as people not giving advice or withholding it, I've personally not noticed it. The only thing that I may have spotted is that anyone who is rude, hectoring, uses that awful text speak or possibly can't string a set of coherent words together due to a scant knowledge of grammar, does seem to get fewer replies to queries. It doesn't have to be perfect, just readily understandable to motivate people enough to want to reply. This is with the obvious exception of people whose first language is not English.... they are always welcomed and helped as much as possible.

I chose to pay each year as a token of support to Bibs and his team of moderators etc who put an awful lot of time and trouble into keeping this site as friendly and useful as it is. Bibs is much more tolerant of people who have been basic members for years and not made a contribution than I think I would be if I was in his shoes... so hats off to him, especially when you think about what it must cost in terms of bandwidth, server space etc to have this site available for all to use.

I think £20 per year is worth every penny and, for heavens sake, I don't even have a (whole) Lotus!

[gtt dave j esprit]

Can you substantiate this at all?

Oh, and is it RTOC you're a member of? In 14 years they've got less than 2,000 members, in 6 years we've got more than 8,100. Who has helped more people?

Am not knocking you or this site at tall bibs. re-read my posts, I just feel it maybe a good idea to listen and take any advise and do somthing constructive rather that compare two car clubs. Do you want me to state what sort of things are great? Think how much money rtoc takes over and above your memebership fees will ! Imagine what they do with all the money they take !

Whats that got to do with the price of fish anyway.

If you want me to state why i think the smaller of the clubs helps the most ? I didnt mean it helps more people. just 149 out of 8000 is poor.

Maybe i havnt explained my self corretley, I think if everyone was a memeber it would benifit everyone. i geuss this site isnt about profit so lower fee and more memebers would go along way to bring everyone together within the club when or if everyone was on the same level.

Regards dave

Ps - 149 of of 8000 hardley makes me feel like joining as a newbie and being part of the minority, got me thinking about it to be honest, why only so few. seems sad. should be more for sure. Am all for helping others and makeing things better or easier for everyone.

Mat,

Every car club is different , this is a great setup no doubt, I wouldnt even compare the two to be fair.

I will say Again, I have said before. My first an most important Intrest, Is to learn more about certain cars.

Not everyone like's to fix there self, I'd rather not fix anything and nothing breaking. But second hand old Cars things break,

When things dont get looked after by previous owners ,mechanics Or just in the years gone bye, things deperciated , Not everyone has a good garage on there doorstep. The cost of transport and petrol is that high , So things get costley.

Many people end up replacing all sorts in the end when they get a problem because of lack of advise or poor judgement. Or a crap garage costing thousands, still for problem to resufuce in the end.

This is were my concern for eveyone come's in, To get honest transparant valuable advice on a car site/forum, Surely Only paying members Should be able to give tech advice and or read it. therfore you would need a lot more paying members to promote good use of it first.

To be fair it seems unless am missing somthing there is a whole lot of topis were people dont get any answers and still have a SE sat in a garage or barn or worst outside there house not working right.

I understand everyone has a life, if theres things i learn and or understand that i can help someone else with, Am all for it , So will give my opinion or advise or just my Veiw. I am not having a dig in any way. am just trying to understand Why the tech section is pritty much non-eventful, And when a new topic comes up Theres only a few that seem to chip in.

Regards dave

Ps voting time , am just going to spoil my ballot , no one to vote for.

Edited April 10, 2010 by gtt dave j esprit

[Bibs]

Honestly Dave you've lost me. There are over 128,000 posts in the technical sections just on the Esprit in reply to 12,000-ish topics, that's an average of over 10 replies per topic and not far off 50% of the total posts on the whole forum.

I could list some of the achievements of this site but in all honesty I don't have time, it's the weekend however for a select few we've done the BigSi car, littleSi car, saved members £100,000's on parts (seriously), had the biggest Esprit gatherings in the world attended by people from all over the world, raised well over £10,000 for charity, helped hundreds of magazines/TV shows with cars, had Lotus re-manufacture obsolete parts saving members thousands, given cars to strangers to fulfil dreams for the day, made hundreds and hundreds of friends, the list does go on and we would struggle to do these without the numbers of members that we have.

Unfortunately most people think the internet should be free and if we were to introduce a compulsory charge we'd end up with, as a guess, 500 members. Now a 500 member site, albeit perhaps slightly wealthier would be no where as near as productive as we are. We're bigger now than Club Lotus who have been going over 50 years although perhaps £250k+ a year worse off but I'd rather the site extended it's reach for now than made me a small nest egg, we'll see where the future takes us. I appreciate the sentiment but as Laura said, this site takes a considerable amount of time and effort to administer and run and we don't make any decisions lightly and often with consultation. This site is so good because it's made good, it's not by accident and I think a compulsory charge would be for the worse.

I'd also like to state that I've never seen evidence of the majority of members ignoring a non paid up member whatsoever due to their status on the forum and also that in reference to my above comments, you have to appreciate I'm an MD of a Ltd Company and don't have all day to chat to people about their cars, I've got bills to pay to which is why I set priorities personally. This site take up well over 40 hours a week of my time on top of my full time job and I'll not go into the personal financial costs but I make decisions that I think are right. Bear in mind though that there is a limit to my charity and time.

[Simon350S]

I quite like the fact its free to browse and contribute, it means a whole load more of thoughts and info being banded about.

I'm not sure where the point about tech advice not being given is coming from though.

I've read most posts on here and there always seems to be answers to virtually all questions no matter what status the member is. If there is an unaswered question it just means that sometimes the problem may not have surfaced before or the people who have that knowledge just haven't logged on for a bit and the topic slides so far down the list it doesn't get seen.

Thats the nature of the beast I'm affraid, but that is also an area where this forum is so helpful. TLF has very stong links and contacts in the Lotus factory and as such a technical support line is available for anyone to contact them direct.

Sometimes its as simple as a topic needing a nudge to get it back into the limelight and fresh eyes that missed it previously may well this time notice and post up a fix.

The reasons for people becoming a paid up member or not have been discussed on here time and time again, the choice is there for everyone to make, it does supprise me though, I'm sure a high proportion of people on here save much more than the £25 a year fee due to the tech advice being shared, parts cross references that have been built up etc, and then theres scope for even more savings on top of that again with a number of main dealers across the country agreeing to provide a 10% discount to members for parts bought direct from them, theres also discounts from specialist suppliers, insurance..... etc, the list goes on....

Its a no brainer if you ask me.

There will be some people who will positively choose to never contribute, thats up to them, they wont loose any sleep. I'm sure if you made it a compulsory fee then we would loose a number of very prolific posters and a wealth of technical knowledge which would not be in the best interests of the forum.

I just wish more people could see how much TLF is helping and has helped them and then willingly contribute towards the costs.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Simon350S

[gtt dave j esprit]

Fully understand all above and agree it is a great site, all the info is great, Am just new and vocal and want attention i surpose.

And being new i dont know how site works/runs or how to reap all the benifits.

2 years nearly and the SE still running pap, I fear only a matter of time untill major failure occurs.

[Kimbers]

Dave

I understand where you are coming from saying that there should be a membership fee, but to Bib's and Laura's credit they have always resisted this and I for one applaud their approach.

This site is fast becoming the place to go for anything from technical advice to talking about politics! It's all about a group of like minded people with a passion for cars...any cars, but more so Lotus, getting together and talking in a secure enviroment. Secure because of the "no nonsense" rule that the boss and moderators adhere to.

However, to say that anyone would withold advice because someone isn't a paid up member is just plain wrong. It won't happen from any of the moderators or Bibs. If a normal member doesn't reply then theres another reason.

The registering to post being free is at the essence of the site and why we have thousands of members and more joining every day. But I do agree it would be great for more people to join up. Without all the discounts you get, the advice people offer saves members thousands and thousands every year. Thats gotta be worth £20!

To offer an example my daughter brought home her boyfriends BMW M3 complaining there was a knocking from the back. After a quick test drive I noticed that it only happened on decelleration, not when going over bumps or accelerating. That sort of threw out the loose exhaust knocking suspension. I made 2 calls. Graham (GKP wasn't in) so I called Andy Clements. "Sounds like worn driveshaft bearing at one end to me".....Thanks bud. My daughter just started working for BMW and asked them to check the driveshaft bearing....guess what! It was worn! And it wasn't even a Lotus!

If anyone wants to join then please feel free to use the link in my signature.

[Advantage]

David, with regards to your family's SE still having running issues - after two years, some of which have been to-ing and fro-ing of information via the forum, would it not be prudent to seek professional help now?

An experienced Lotus technician should be able to give you a diagnosis much quicker with the car sitting in front of him rather than the educated guesswork that comes with long distance/lost in translation forum contributions.

There will be plenty of members, paid up or not, who would be able to point you in the right direction of a trusted Lotus independant in your area. You only have to ask.

[freshcut]

Just to get this topic back on track somewhat, I would like to personally thank Bibs, Laura, and all the other moderators for making this forum what it is today. I applaud the conviction on keeping it free since I too agree that it results in many different opinions being expressed. As for the tech section, I'm glad thats available to free members as well as paid members. I only recently became a paying member (last month) after having been on the site for just over a year and I'm glad I did. I'd hate to lose such a valuable source of information, entertainment and the occasional heartfelt moment just because I was too cheap or lazy to click on a simple button and send a few bucks over to the forum. I personally view my contribution more as a Thank You for providing this site than anything else. Of course the benefits are significant in being a paid member when one throws in the discounts from various advertisers, and should be more than enough incentive for everyone to join. In some cases, a single purchase can more than cover the cost of membership for a few years when taking into account discounts that Bibs has managed to arrange with many of the sponsors.

[Bibs]

Thanks Blake, kind words

I've just added up to 20% off and free delivery with Camskill Tyres to the discount section.

[tonyc]

Bibs - can you please sort out my membership - I have paid it about a month ago but computer satd no! Hope you are OK - enjoy your facebook entries. tonyc

[Bibs]

I've recently raised the PM limit for non members to 25, allowed sigs and avatars again.

[rocket63]

It Should be £25 join fee, then £10 years after for renewing

I have read what you have said bibs and understand, but the amount of posts i read without answers is unbelivable,

Having reviewed your own topics and posts Dave, I can find no evidence of selective or non response to your quastions and there are plenty of replys in relation to information through your subsequent requests for information.

Whilst some posts by other members may not have any apparent response, many a member will send a PM directly to the party in question.

Additionally, many of the topics that new members have brought to bear, upon joining the site, looking for free expertise and guidance, have been answered with significant and detailed responses. Where a topic has been previously answered, Members have been directly referred to these areas.

So whilst it may not always be evident on first sight, very few posts go answered.

Many people contribute a great deal of time and energy to the forum for no cost and for the love of the marque. Sweeping statements show scant consideration for any member that prospers from the free access to the forum and the benevolence of the facility.

Everyone is free to join the Forum, Full membership brings obvious benefits, but one of these is not and never has been selective censorship.

My kindest regards...Paul

[Advantage]

I wouldn't panic, Paul. He's not been online since July last year, although your sentiments are valid.

[rocket63]

Ah yes. Brain fade

[GordonMasson]

The way I see it is that you get bloody good value for money being a paid member.

My main argument about fee’s is that I think unpaid members get a fantastic amount of access to a site which does not run or moderate its self…..probably far too much access.

Lets face it, a full subscription for a year costs less than 50p a week and I don’t think that is going to break anyone.

[Bibs]

Good news, I've just sorted a 10% discount with REIS (the old Richard Eggar) so all Elise/Exige owners will be very happy. They can accommodate all BHPs and virtually all modifications and have a multi-car policy too. I'll post the details up in the discount section shortly

[Bibs]

Click 'Subscriptions' at the top of the page mate. I got the same email, you've not changed your credit card on there have you, that cancels any subscriptions?

[RV_ABZ]

My card had expired so my subscription now appears "active/cancelled" as at 13July. How do I resubscribe (non-uk resident)?