Help plese - she won't start for love nor money!

[moscowchris]

All,

I am hoping someone can point me in the right direction to sort out this problem. I have a 01 Esprit V8 that won't start at all. Unfortunately the car is stuck in a small garage (on the 6th floor of a parking facility) so getting the car out not under it's own power is going to be difficult and the access I have to be able to do anything to the car is fairly limited My g/f thought it would be safe to keep it there while I was out of town in the UK for a month.

This is the second time this has happened - first time I had it towed to the only Lotus place in town. I had given them a list of other things to take care of while they were at it too including installing a new PUK ECU. The said that once they changed the ECU the car started first time and all was fine! Typically they didn't bother to look for any real problems.

Symptoms are as follows:

1. turn the key and the engine turns over but does not fire - so seems like it is not getting fuel or spark or both. Tried also to do it with a bit of throttle but that also made no difference. The battery is fine - I had also attached an auxillary power pack just in case so that is not the challenge.

What have I tried so far:

1. I thought it may be the immobilizer - so before putting the key in ignition I touched the stick to the receptacle in the center console before starting (red immobilizer led stops flashing). No difference.

2. I have reset the ECU (by removing the 5A fuse B2 in the rear compartment and leaving it 20 minutes). Ineterstingly enough if I try to start the car with the ECU 'disconnected - ie. fuse is out) the symptoms are the same as when the ECU is connected - suggesting that the problem is related to that.

3. I have checked all the fuses in the rear fuse compartment and they are all fine.

--

So where can I go from here - especially given the space limitations I have. I do have a workshop manual but not the one that covers the engine

I have reasonable mechanical abilities (although still to be proven on the Lotus as all my other cars have the engine nice and accessible in the front - not sure even how to attempt to get to the front of the lotus engine.

Any suggestions greatly received - especially if you can show me a picture of where and what to look for.

cheers

Chris

[buckster]

Hi...

Hard to say but I had something like this with a previous car and it was one of the fuel pump relays, connection was broken.

Can you hear the fuel pump priming when ignition turned on?

I don't know if the Esprit has a fues or relay for the fuel pump.

Good luck.

[moscowchris]

Can you hear the fuel pump priming when ignition turned on?

Thanks for the reply - I do hear the fuel pump priming (or I assume that is what it is)...

Chris

[Backmarker]

Could be the crank sensor.

If this has failed it won't allow the car to start to protect the crank.

It happened to me. Cheap part to replace.

Have you got an OBDII reader as this may point you in the right direction.

[Günter]

don't pay for parts, until you have checked all important things first: Does the car ignite normally(on the spark-plugs) , so undo the covers for the spark-plugs and undo the spark-plugs. If you put the spark-plug into the connector and hold it all together on an negative point (earth ->engine block..) than you should see the spark while engine is cranking. Other point is: after cranking for a while ->is there pressure on the fuel-rail ? You can test this if you place an blanket/ piece of old clothes or something like that next to the *shrader-valve* (that's the valve on RH fuel rail..) . Press with your fingernail into the valve and open it manually. There should be a lot of pressurized fuel spilling out, so be careful with your eyes !! Other point: do the injectors get voltage impulses ? You can test that if you have the plenum off, than unplug the fuel injector connectors (not the fuel lines/rail -just the wiring..) , there should be voltage on one pin.. .

Oh,, and for your information :ECM connector on the V8 is an one-piece connector. So it's a easy thing to go off/on -just fit your old (standard) ECM on it and test that your car wants to start up with this... . ECM is under RH (carpeted ) quarter window cover next to the engine bay RH. Undo the screws with *Phillips type* head an peel the thing out. Than you have access to ECM, fuel filter/fuel lines, fuel pumps, and so on... .

Edited June 14, 2009 by G

[freshcut]

Off topic, but wondering if its such a good idea to detail the location of . Just a thought.

edit: thought I would clear my mention up as well.

Edited June 14, 2009 by freshcut

[Günter]

especially on an thing about an car that is aimed to run on Moscow streets ...

[moscowchris]

Moscow is not that bad as for the censored part - if it is something useful could you PM me

Cheers

[kyliesmith.com]

I think Gunter is on the money. Swap it if you can to check. I would remove the ECU, and get it tested through any good electrical engineer servicing ECU's. It could be short in it which can be repaired. I actually had mine konk out while driving and had the same symptoms as you trying to start it. Least if its the ECU you can leave the car there My EZscan tool could not detect this fault but the Tech 1 and any good top of the range scan tool should and clear culprit codes.

Good luck and let us know how you get on

[peter_england99]

Hi Chris,

Reading your 1st post reminded me of a problem I had with my PUK Red Code ECU. My car cut out whilst driving and wouldn't restart. When I got home I took the lid off the PUK ECU and examined the Eproms that were soldered in as part of the PUK upgrade. I noticed that the car would start if I pushed down the Eprom, hence I had found a dry joint in the soldering. A quick fix with the soldering iron and all was well and has been for the last 3+years.

Its a remote possibility (I'd follow Gunter's advice 1st), but it may be worth checking the Eproms in your ECU. When you see how small the connectors are and how close they are together, its not surprising that a problem can occur.

Regards,

Peter.

[Che]

Did you check the cutoff fuel ?

Reset the cutoff fuel....then try to start.

[moscowchris]

finally got back from a long business trip and was able to get to the car and have a play. London was fun - but it is nice to get back to the Moscow chaos again.

So - as suggested I changed the ECU back to the stock on - no difference

I used the scan tool to to check for codes - no codes

I tried to cranking whilst monitoring the scan tool - no RPM signal - stays at zero

I did manage to bump start it down one of the slopes in the parking garage and have since dropped it off at the local 'lotus specialist' to have a look. He is leaning toward Crank Angle Sensor - but to order one from UK he explained will take a few weeks and be very expensive! If only I had bought one last week while I as the.

Does anyone know of another source for the sensor - maybe there is something local I can use instead?

thanks

Chris

[Günter]

for me both look like an Bosch sourced part, and the label on the cam sensor says it too... .

So undo your sensor and put it in the pocket. Go to the next Bosch shop or anything like an dealer /or even an *Moscow back yard garage*.. . Than try to get an working but used one to test it. Should not be that expensive as Bosch components are common in Europe markets !?

Ohh, and wait -do one test first: undo the connector on sensor and ECM -than try to measure that there is no short circuit or any other fault in the wiring.

As far as i can see in the book: pin 73 & (not printed perfect, maybe 70!?) should be the right pin. At least and withe and a brown cable...

Edited July 4, 2009 by G

[Paula&Marcus]

Hi All,

If the ECU (Eproms) is faulty, then the fuel pump would NOT run after you turn on the ignition.

JFYI, the ECU is doing a self-check right after you turn on the ignition. If the check fails, the fuel pump relay wont get energized.

I dont think that it is the ECU.

Cheers

Marcus

[superdavelotus]

Are you definately getting power to the fuel pumps?

1. Check the inertia switch. Black rubber box on right hand side firewall. Feel for the button on top and press down (the button is inside the rubber surround but if it's off you can usually feel it 'click'). This has happened to mine twice.

2. Bad fuel, if you say that you've left it for over a month plus the time previously that you last filled up could have made the fuel go off. Should still start though albeit a bit rough. You never know?

3. Crank, cam and other sensors uaually brings up an Engine check light but not always.

4. Coil packs are the next things to check. (This has happened to two different friends of mine and doesn't bring up an ECL).

5. Fuel pump and regulators/ Get you garage to make sure there's enough pressure coming from your tank.

6. Relays for pumps etc.

7. Earthing strap from chassis to engine.

8. Timing (could have slipped on the belt)

Have you taken your plugs out to see what they are like? Oily, sooted up?

One of the above will be causing your problem I think.

David Walters

[moscowchris]

All,

well it seems it was the Crank Sensor as now this has been changed the car starts without any problems. Now I have a new problem in as much as the car is drinking coolant... not having much luck with this car at all

[superdavelotus]

Hi Chris,

Good news on the starting problem. As for the coolant leak, you need to trace this and check it's not getting into the liners. First thing as a matter of course is put a new cap on and check the overflow tank cap too! One is pressure released and the other is a plain cap.

Check all the pipes and underneath.

Also check front cover on engine as it's a weak point.

After this check your sump (oil) to see if you've got water in this oil.

David

[Günter]

David, on which point on the front cover do you refer -the point where the LH/RH cylinder head water-channels get in contact with the intermediate-chain area ? Or is there any other point i have to watch out on my rebuild !?

[moscowchris]

I took the car to a guy who came recommended yesterday - he came back this morning with news that in his opinion it is the head gasket and will be a minimum $5,000 repair job. The good lady has now 'insisted' I sell the car immediately

Looks like my lotus experience was a short and troubled one...

[Bibs]

There's no way on earth a head gasket change would cost $5,000 and indeed it's unusual for them to fail on a V8, this guy has clearly never worked on a 918 engine before. Take it somewhere else Chris, get a second opinion. Have they done an exhaust gas test on the coolant, had the coolant system been pressure tested?

[moscowchris]

welcome to Russia everything here is crazy expensive!!! I really need to find a real specialist (or become one myself). If only my garage was free but it has another project underway in it right now.

I will go and see the guy again tomorrow as I need to pick up my head from my other car and see if I can work out how he came to this conclusion...

Chris

[Bibs]

Might be cheaper to fly someone over!

[superdavelotus]

I know someone who would fly over and do the work for you. PM me and I'll ask the question.

He sent someone over to do a clutch in Germany in middle of night when the Gumball rally was on a few years back so I don't see why he can't do a head gasket?

David Walters

[internets]

Might be cheaper to fly someone over!

Sparky hows your Russian? ... Watford Exotics goes East

[Günter]

Chris, if you don't like the car anymore -i know one in Berlin who would like to have an cheap Esprit with some rework on it. My friend is on the search for an S4/S4s/V8 Esprit now even on RHD market, so your Moscow car would be damn right for him.

And just for your information: you can sort out head-gasket replacements (just the material, not any labor cost !) via the *LEF* for 100GBP each. So i don't know what that 5000 GBP bill includes at least ???

Edited July 30, 2009 by G