RV8 Twin Turbo S3

[wayneb911]

Okay well as the title says it all you can guess what I am planning. Well having already purchased the engine and my engine is going next week I guess its all go!!

First of all lets nip this in the bud

[mangel]

No shouting here, would have gone audi route personally as have been in numerous RV8 kit cars and never been all that impressed. Turbo's should spice it up a bit though. Just go for it is what I say!!

[hilly]

Wayne

As I have said to you already the RV8 won't go down well here as an engine choice as it has been done a few time already in Esprits, hardly pushing the envelope, but then again I am biased.....

Anyho..........I have already been in conversation with you about your project, so a bunch of stuff has already been covered (you have a PM by the way), but your proposed layout drawing won't work.

There just isn't room between the chassis rail to get the turbos and pipework where you have drawn them.

Look at how the V8s have got the turbo placement and you'll see what I mean.

Hilly

[Advantage]

It's length that'll be the issue here, ahem. (It always seems to be too long.... )

There isn't much space in the engine bay to get the Rover engine in without clearance problems with the bulkhead. The distrubutor will be extremely close to the metal brace that's part of the bulkhead, which means the water pump and subsequent pulleys will require some headscratching to engineer a solution. You could use the later RV8 front cover and delete the distributor but I'm not sure if the sepentine pulley will fit without fouling the chassis etc etc!

Also whereabouts on the exhaust manifolds are you intending to mount the turbos? If they're going to be as per the pictures above there will probably be some thinking required about the chassis rails too.

I have a hammer you can borrow...

[wayneb911]

Hilly

I plan to run the turbo's uptop instead of below. I will fabricate the manifolds to sit above or at the side of the cam covers depending on how much room. One thing i do need to look into is the size of the Turbo that will be required. Any ideas. im guessing nothing to big as i wont be running loads of boost?

GKP

I have though about the water pump issues. There is a shorter water pump available for kit car convesrions for around £90 so im hoping that will be one issue resolved. Looking at Nicks pictures of the RV8 he has the distibutor was kept in stock position. Hope i can do the same but im sure there will be plenty of head scratching to be done!!

Edited October 30, 2009 by wayneb911
REMOVED QUOTE

[hilly]

Wayne

Even on top it going to be a challenge as I assume you are going to be buying pre-fabricated manifolds which won't sweep up enough to clear the chassis rail.

This leave making up your own and as I mentioned before, the fab work required to fit the wheazy old RV8 lump with a respectable output is making other engine choices a far better bet.

The other thing to bare in mind is what is directly the other side of the chassis rails, not sure I would want to a red hot turbo above both each fuel tank and next to all the associated filler necks and vent hoses.

The 912 twin carbs are bad enough at generating engine fires, this is just asking for trouble.......

Trying to not be too negative here, but the only things the RV8 has got going for it is that it is cheap (and that is less so once you have done all the mods to it make it fit and slap a pair of turbos on) and you have already got one........

Hilly

Edited October 30, 2009 by hilly

[910Esprit]

I know its only a drawing... but It will take about 5 minutes between pressing the throttle before the engine responding - and a similar scary time after lifting off the throttle (maybe I'm exagerating) The distance between the compressor and the inlet valves looks very very long.

Steve

[wayneb911]

Hilly

I had alrteady thought of that one. Will just lay a fire balanket over them instead!!! Only joking. Being that I will be sitting the intercoolers further over above the fuel tanks and reaplacing the quarter glass with vented units im hoping I can section this area off better with some sort of firewall/heatshield.

Steve

Im sure they will be much shorter in practice.

[lotusross]

You could look at running an electric water pump if room is an issue in the front.

[wayneb911]

I did think about that but dont know much about them. Ho are they fitted. I take it there is some sort of plate which fits wher the water pump used to? Ideally if i can keep things mechanical it will be much simpler.

[SubWoofer]

One thing puzzles me a bit: You are doing an (costly) engine swap, going twin turbo, yet in 2009 you want to run SU blowthrough carbs and only 6psi of boost? I could see the point if you were building a replica of some racer from the 70s - keeping it true to period, but with TBI EFI systems easily available, why go with some shoddy old constant depression carbs? Have you acquired a blow-through version of them, or some conversion kit?

[wayneb911]

The idea of running carbs is for simplicity to get it all up and running and see how it all goes. I may look at EFi latter on but prob will stick with carbs. They are easier to play around with in my opinion and i have a few friends who know the rover V8 engines and SU's pretty well so will always have a local shoulder to lean on.

[silverfrost]

Hi Wayne,

As stated above by hilly really think your going to struggle to get the turbos in where you want them, The fire risk alone is not worth the drama, No matter how many heat sheilds you put in it will not be safe, Or even fit for that matter, Also take into consideration the movement in the engine, My V8 is rock solid when cold but when warm and under torque you will be amazed at how much it can move and my manifolds are thin with no turbos, so bare this in mind you can cram it all in there but when its used thats when it matters.

The electric water pumps are a good mod and gain an extra few bhp as the organal pump and pulley is not used but as for reliabilty im not 100% taken by them yet as have seen a few of the mgb v8 race cars fry engines recently due to failed pumps! and driver error for not stopping!

Also as said above the audi conversion is a great conversion but as you already know the g/box brakes ecu etc makes it expensive,

Im not knocking your idea in any way im all for modding esprits but the fitting the turbos will be a nightmare and if you stick the engine in in stock form you mayjust be very disapointed with the mod.

I would still keep an eye out for somthing else that may fit the bill, To be honest and this is my personal veiw i would be looking at the jaguar/ford V6 like punkys as no gearbox change, we know the engine fits, cheap ecus or cheap aftermarket bespoke, cheap engines to buy and they look great and have you heard punkys move in the video! This seems like the way and think it would end up been a very fast,reliable,good looking conversion with modern relable v6 engine snarls..............

But its your motor all my veiws are my own personal ones but its your decision at the end of the day and what your comfortable and confident enough to do, Have a good think and what ever you decide to do hurry up and get the project thread going! And as always you will have 100% backing from the me for doing the swap

Take it easy regards danny

[wayneb911]

Thanks Danny for all your feedback.

I am going to push hard to get all of this done and worked out. I will deffinately be sticking with the RV8 engine now as i have purchased it and got all my ideas mapped out. I did consider fitting the turbos more towards the gearbox like the TVR twin turbo. It must work as they seem to go well. Not sure though. I will make more decisions when the engine is actually in place. I reckon a couple of weeks till its in with a make do adaptor for now. Will start posting some pictures as soon as possible. One thing i am still working out is the size of the turbos that i will need, any ideas? Also i will run two small intercoolers as the original SD1 kits did not run any because of low boost but i think it will run better and a bit cooler with them.

If all goes well with this then i will purchase another engine and carry out extensive modifications on it to fit at a latter date. But thats another story i still have tons to do.

[peter_england99]

Do you need intercooling if you are only running 6psi max boost?

1) What will the higher torque you would get from cooling the charge do to the Citroen gearbox?

2) Will the extended inlet lengths from turbo to intercooler to manifold cause a little more lag?

3) Will the intercooler hardware not be adding extra weight?

4) Will the intercoolers not add build & packaging complexity?

My understanding is that for similar issues as above Lotus didn't bother with intercooling their V8 solution.

It pains me to say this as I've always wanted intercoolers on my V8.

Good luck with the project. I'd love to see and hear it running when you are finished.

Regards,

Peter.

[wayneb911]

Hi Peter

I dont think there will be to much of an issue with intercoolers fitted. Im hoping it would still run better than without. Whean talking to Janspeed they advised the boost on the sd1 conversion used to cut in around 2-2500 rpm so fairly normal for an old engine compared to a mre modern one. Obviously lots of modern cars run variable vain so you get a more even boost pattern across the range and pretty constant. I dont think they will add to much complexity and also weight wise were only really talking 4 alloy pipes and 2 small intercoolers. Being that it will be a low boost setup i will opt for small intercoolers. Something like the size that was use on the renault 5 turbo. These will fit nicely above the fuel tanks. I plan to upgrade the engine power in the future with a new unit, full rebuild and major mods so i will install the intercoolers now. If they acuse an issue i will take them out.

Edit by Bibs - I've removed the quote of the proceeding post AGAIN Wayne. In a conversation, you don't repeat what someone just said to you before you reply, please consider this to be an online conversations.

[mangel]

I'd look at charge cooling rather than intercooling, then you can locate the chargecool rad elsewhere to get the cooler air without the having extra pipework and hence more lag. Plus a couple of water pipes will be easier to route than big turbo pipework!!

just a thought.

[wayneb911]

The engine is currently around 2-220. Speaking to Janspeed he said the SD1 was taken to about 290 with the turbo's. How tru that figure is i do not know. If i saw 260 - 270 i would be happy and then latter when i put a much higher powered version in with the turbos i would like to see a hell of a lot more!!

[wayneb911]

Okay so the lotus engine is now gone which gives me a little spending money to start the project!! New engine is being delivered on Saturday now i have the space in my garage. Will have even more when its in the car....

First thing is adaptor plate prototype to get it all bolted up and sitting in the car. Pictures to follow at the weekend.....

[plumdeplakmuis]

For the 290 hp targer and twin turbocharger set up, I don't think

you necessarily need an intercooler.

For turbocharger size i think 2x MHI TD03, with 11T compressor,

With this you should stay in the high efficiency/low compressor outlet temp regions.,

That setup should get you to 300hp.

Or as an alternative and easier packaging, you can use a

single turbocharger, and mount it above the gearbox.

Do you have some more details on the engine like,

Capacity of the engine, EGT, HP target?

[lotusross]

Pics would be nice - I am working on my car this week - funny how working on it seems easier for me than posting the pictures.

[Bibs]

If you come and fix my car I'll post your pictures

[wayneb911]

The engine is a 3.5 Rover V8 with 9.3.5 compression ratio. High lift cams fitted. Currently putting around 200-220bhp. I have also been chatting to people on the V8 and Cobra forums as this has been done many times befor. Some good advice also being given there. Prople also saying to run an EFI set up, this i may have from the person i purchased the engine from but i thought this would compliacte things??

Also spoke to Mick at boost performance who still makes the cast mainolds for the engine. He has advised what carb to run tec if thats the route i go. What to expect and how to set it all up. Since he has done many of these conversions in the past the average boost that was run was 7psi with no issues. He even ran 10psi on his own car with no problems and this was without altering the compression so by fitting composite headgaskets and lowering the compression i should be able to run 7-10psi with no issues. Until the engine is in place i wont know exactly how it will be packaged but i have also been advise intercoolers may not be neccessary as well. Deffinattely going for the twin turbo set up tho not single. Pictures will be popping up in the next couple of weeks. Will have some of the engine on Sunday.

Target HP for the engine will be 300 to start and then over time more mods etc will increase its performance.

[plumdeplakmuis]

I you want to go 300 hp+ setup, a TD03-11T would not be sufficient as that

would be the setup for high torque in low revs and 300hp the limit for the compressor.

If you want some extra flow capacity, a TD04HL-16T-7 would be a better option. That will be usable for 400hp,

while keeping the same turbo's. If you use the MHI pn. 49189-01330, that unit will give you nice straight setup and connection flanges.

[wayneb911]

Thanks Garp

Will look at the turbo side soon. Was planning working on it tonight to start making the adaptor but the missus car is broke so i need to sort that first