Elise or Europa?

[Bigcalm]

Hi Everyone

I'm new to the forum and busy researching before I buy. I've recently tested an 07 Europa and a couple of Elises. I like them all and really unsure at this stage which way to go. I see there's a lot of great info/buyers guides here which is helping, but I have a couple of general questions...

1. I'm 6'3" and fit fine into a Europa. But both the Elises I drove had tops off so I'm not sure if I would fit in an Elise with a hard top (if I go with an Elise I have a pref for a hard top). Anyone know the answer?

2. I've driven the 111s and a std Elise - Is the performance of the R significantly more than these two in the real world? I'm looking for a great handling car and something I can make a real connection with, not necessarily heaps of power (I've just sold my 997 Carrera because it was to sanitised and you could'nt use all the power on the road)

3. Lastly, I see there are many different views on the Europa. Out here in NZ there a very few of them from what I can tell, and they seem very difficult to sell - one has been on the market well over a year, another for several months. So, will the Elise give the real world performance of a Eurpoa with a little less comfort but be easier to sell?

Cheers

Steve

[Backmarker]

Steve,

I've owned neither but have driven both. I'm 6 foot.

I think you've answered your own question. The Elise sells better in the Uk and looks like it does in NZ too.

I prefer the Europa. More civilised and easier to get into and out off. If you're cross dresser, skirts will be mayhem, so check before you buy.

I would buy a Europa if my veins were not pumping pure Esprit.

[DanR]

With the Europa having the GM turbo motor it would be capable of "stupid" power if you become inclined that way?

There's lots of info and upgrade kits on various Vauxhall sites about that engine. Cosworth also had a significant part in it's genesis especially with the head.

Edited March 2, 2010 by DanR

[Jonathan]

The R imo is the power an Elise should have, it's more urgent and has a much longer stride to it (ie more power of the revs).

aving said that I much prefer smoother non VVT engines to drive, but you'll miss the power.

An Elise is a car you can apply that power as well - keep the tyres good, you should have no probs.

IMO the Europa is too different to an Elise to make a comparison. Europas are dipping over here more than Elises which denotes their desirability.

If you're after an investment or damage limitation vs the functionality of the europa over an Elise then I'd say get the Elise.

If you find the Europa more civilised and better engine, boot, interior, noise, ride quality and so on then get the Europa - if not then the Europa is not the car for you regardless of the re-sale.

[rogerch]

What's wrong with the Exige ?

[Bigcalm]

What's wrong with the Exige ?

I'd love an Exige, but have'nt seen one for sale in NZ

[ads_green]

The europa is a second hand purchase dream - sounds like in NZ it's the same with prices dropping like a stone.

They are two very different cars... I personally never got on with the turbo GM motors as there was always too much lag and in such a light car it was really noticable.

The Elise toyota lump is much more a precision car. If you get the ECU map then there's no step between the eco/power cams making it alot smoother. You can always add on a supercharger to the elise after.

[Kimbers]

There is no doubt in my mind that the Elise is a better option when you come to sell it.

However, the Europa is just that bit more different and rare and so may be a better buy for you.

I am 6foot and wouldn't like to be any taller to fit into my Exige. At 6'3" it's a little borderline as to whether you will be comfortable in the Elise when the top is on. If you go down the Elise route then the higher the HP the better. I am the sort of person who looks at a car and says "If I get the standard Exige/Elsie I will always think I should have spent that bit more and got an Supercharged".

The Europa does have lower residuals, but this makes them a better buy, used. Trouble is finding one. Try and negotiate one down and like they say above, if you get the base model you can very easily chip it up and get better wheels.

If you want a better residual and "the norm" I'd go for the Elise. If you want something different and you are going to keep it for a while (so residual is less important) Go with the Europa.

I must admit to having looked time and again at the Europa SE....

[PierreLP]

I have two Elise S1's (both race cars), Elise S2 Sports Racer and an Europa. Both Trish and I prefer the Europa. I can drive the Europa as quick as the Sports Racer through bends and quicker in a straight line. You can drive it lazy or aggresive. Mine is a daily driver.

The only negative for me is the poor front brakes....oh and the rear tyres only last 8,000 miles (max.)

One owner is changing the ECU and ramping the power up to around 300BHP. Chris Randall's race car is putting out 430BHP and has more to come.

I had my Europa MOT'd on Saturday and it sailed through. The emission figures were CO 0, HC 1. You cant really do better than that. (One of the benefits of using the correct grade of Motul oil!!!!)

[rogerch]

I'd love an Exige, but have'nt seen one for sale in NZ

I know nothing of the NZ importation laws, but it would open up the market for you if it were feasible.

[Bigcalm]

Thanks for the advice guys, gives me something to think about

The importation laws are relatively straight forward, with a ton of cars imported second had from Japan. I've looked at the option of bringing one in from Aussie, but there prices are astronimcal and it just doesn't stack up.

I must admit the idea of the Europa appeals, a combination of power output, comfort (I know I can fit comfortably) and rarity - anything I purchase I would like to hold for a while so resale is not so much of a concern. It's interesting reading the reviews which are not so kind to it, and yet on this forum all the Europa owners seem pretty happy with theirs - might be a case of poor marketing by Lotus?

Does anyone know if Lotus have stopped production of the model?

[Jonathan]

Mainly poor reviews / journalism.

I dont read journalists opinions on cars (clarkson and the like) nor do I read anyone but the owners opinion of ANYTHING becuase usually they talk utter BS and the rest tow the line.

Read 1/2 the reviews of an Esprit for example they're so devoid of fact or you get people like Clarkson who review consecutive models and just contradict themselves.

When Clarkson wrote about the S4 he priased the driving position, then on the V8 he slated it....duh its the bloody same position !

The issues with the Europa was it was released on the back of the Elise and many seemed to belive the car was going to be a brand new car when infact....it wasnt.

When it wasn't a new car (they should have called it perhaps, the Elise GT) a few people slated it and then the rest towed the convention method of thinking line.

It also never got reviewed on TV by top gear who probably would have liked it (Clarkson if you notice at the moment loves anything british regardless of how good it is).

A lot of people didn't "get" the Europa when there really isnt anything to get...

The car was piggy back'd off the Elise chassis, used a tried and tested (imo wonderful) Vauxhall engine and probably cost Lotus next to nothing to impliment, yet how the press crowed about how it wont compete with Porsche etc - who cares ! It is a further option to the Elise line, end of...what's there to get.

What was FUNNY as hell about the Europa - is that if the Elise is the base market (which it is, becuase they sell more) and the Exige is the more track focused (which is is and everyone loves it) the Europa is the comfort / functionality focused car for that family of products at th time.........why is that so hard to judge the car by it's merrits and not what else is out there and what the Elise is like....again duhhhh

I love the Europa, dont like the styling of the front/rear but as a car it's perfect. My misses wants an Elise but prefers the Europa becuase of the easy access boot, lazy more powerful engine and the comfort level.

My issues on why it didn't sell so well is that it's not a toy like the Exige and Elise, it's infact a daily car and people spending xxx grand on a daily are going to look at 4 door sensible saloons etc. Also if you really want a Lotus the Esprit is still the best GT bet, £30k buys you a late V8 which, lets face it is a lot more car and performance for the green.

As a car I think they're excellent, ride, handling, gear change, perfect engine (for me anyways) comfort and exclusivity.

[Simon350S]

I like the Europa, it's more of a finished car, with the upgrade trim spec it's a nice place to be inside too.

[Nelly]

I know that TG filmed a review of the Europa - Clarkson was filming it the day Hammond had his big crash.

Becuase the subsequnt series was cut short to 6 episodes to fit BBC schedules it got culled. Shame, I was looking forward to seeing it and what he would have thought.

[Jonathan]

Thats interesting - wonder why they never showed it instead of rerun, after rerun, after rerun, after rerun........................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Nelly]

I seem to remember because there were only six shows, all the expensive stuff (such as the USA trip and the "Reliant shuttle") got the green light instead.

would have preferred to see a Europa test rather than a three wheeled car crashing into the ground.

[Guy Munday]

They definitely haven't stopped Europa; I have one in build at present for a customer.

I do export to NZ and its not that difficult (certainly when compared to Australia). As long as the car is OBD4 compliant and you have a European Certificate of Conformity, it should be straightforward. Import taxes are a bit tricky, but get cheaper on used cars, starting at 3 months old. If you register it in the UK and delay shipping for 6 weeks, it can then spend a further 6 weeks bobbing around on the ocean, getting older and cheaper to import!

Happy to help if I can,

Guy @ Stratton Motor Co

[Beaujolais Dom]

I ran an Elise S1 for 90,000 miles then advancing years and waistline made me decide on a change, something with more creature comforts. Having looked at alternative marques (BMV Z4, assorted Alfas), nothing matched the Lotus exhiliration or "differentness".

So I tried a Europa, but wasn't keen on the low rent interior when it was launched - but then came the leather interior, power upgrade etc so I took the plunge and bought one (from young Guy Munday above!). I absolutely love it - more comfortable and practical than the Elise or Exige (particularly the boot), goes like a stabbed rat and genuinely different - I like the fact you don't see many about, I've got it because I love driving it (it's my only car), so resale values aren't a worry.

A shame it's not caught on - at the risk of being struck down by a lightning bolt from Hethel, I think Lotus got their positioning all wrong when it was launched, the interior didn't match the positioning or pricing, and the launch photos made it look decidedly odd, whereas the first time I saw one in the flesh I was really taken with it. Sadly it takes an awful lot to overcome the initial impression that was created, but if you read the reviews of the SE (eg in Autocar last year), it seems to now be regarded as an undiscovered gem.

[Bigcalm]

Your Europa looks awesome in black!

I've since driven a couple of Elises and a Porsche 911 2.7 RS replica, and while they were fun they didn't give me the buzz the Europa did when I last drove one. So I'm off next week to drive a Europa again and see if that buzz is still there. I've also got the chance to back to back it with an Exige so that will also be intersting.

Cheers

Steve

Edited March 29, 2010 by USAndretti42
Deleted unnecessary quote of immeditately-preceding post