Need a little help with my project......

[plasticfantastic]

Hi all,

Im still a new member here but i wanted to share my project with you all, as its Esprit based i thought here would be a good place for me to get a little help. I introduced my project here in my Intro Thread, I tried to start a project thread but im unable to start a thread there?! mod's, Please feel free to move if this thread is in the wrong place?

In brief i plan to use a Lotus Esprit S3 chassis under my hand crafted F40 body......

Comments good or bad always appreciated

Cheers

[Bibs]

You should start a car blog, link is at the top of the page

[nigeninja]

What you made that whole body from scratch

[plasticfantastic]

Hi all,

I bought the project around 9 years ago, it was originally started by someone in 1989 after they fell in love with the F40, but realised they didnt have the money to buy one. So he went out and bought a brand new aluminium 308 bodyshell and started to modify from there. This shell was brought up to a very basic F40 shape, then he took molds from it. Then after many years of the molds sitting around i found out about them and purchased them. My first job was to create a set of moldings and put them together to see how they looked, they were ok but far from accurate. So for the last 9 years on and off i have been working on this one bodyshell trying to get it to a point where im happy with the quality.

In the time of doing this project i have come across numerous original parts and until recently i owned a complete set of molds removed from an original F40 LM, so it would have been easy for me to just use these but they just didnt come clost to the finish or ease of build as my body, so i sold the molds. The original F40 body is in many parts that get attatched and ligned up onto the chassis individually, i.e roof, A pillars, scuttle, sills, floors etc... this all takes alot of time to line up properly.

My car when done will have a 1 piece tub molding, 2 doors, a front end, rear end and rear bumper so there will be hardly any assembly work once molded. For a while i even blanned to build it with a carbon/grp monocoque but since buying the Esprit im much happier with the chassis idea.

Would anyone be able to help me with the differences between the s3 and s4 chassis?

Cheers

[mc21.8]

s3 85 on pretty much the same s4 where is the area of your concern<gearchange mounting in car may differ>as well as at rear of chassis cable gearchange areas ect maybe upper front middle mount areas<under bonnet may be different hight> but cant remember now !!

[plasticfantastic]

Thanks for the info.

Im just hoping that the basic size and shape of the chassis is the same on the s3 and s4 so that my tub would fit over either without modifications.

Ideally a v8 TT s4 would be my donor so i could use all the running gear, but it is out of my budget for now!

Cheers

[nic996]

I checked out your project on the link above. Much respect for the body build. My hat is respectfully doffed!! I will be interested to see how your body fits on the chassis. The wheelbase is a close enough but the track is significantly wider on the ferrari. Did you work out yet how you will overcome that?

I had a discussion with a fellow forum member about the possibility of putting a Countach body over an Esprit chassis (he pointed ouzt to me that the Countach is almost identical dimensionally). It's a great solution, particularly as there seems to be plenty chassis out there without a pretty body to go on top. Also I have been reliably informed that the chassis is fairly easy to replicate. (That might keep the Lotus fraternity happier). I will be really interested to see how you get on with this. It is something I may tackle in the distant future myself. Particulalry as the Replica Lambo chassis would be significantly less developed than the Lotus one!! good luck!!

[plasticfantastic]

Many thanks for your kind comments nic!

So far there seem to be several ways i could adjust the wheelbase and track. So far the most likely options are either a complete set of custom suspension arms, the front will be wider and the rear will be longer and wider. Or a cradle that will bolt into the rear end and would relocate all the original suspension arms. The only other major change to make then is to move the engine and gearbox backwards, but i have been looking at this this morning and it doesn't seem to be an issue. I too have thought that the chassis is simple enough to replicate so this still may be an option for the future.

Cheers

[Petrol feet driven]

Loving it, its like a grown up version of airfix. Can't wait until its on the chassis, nor can you I bet.

[lotus-62]

" I had a discussion with a fellow forum member about the possibility of putting a Countach body over an Esprit chassis "

Hi Nic.after looking at the build I was thinking the same thing, if he can do this with a F40 body we can do this with a lp500 proto body but you have to finish the esprit first and I have to finish the banks 62 first (AND I need to do a few small things on the esprit...)

Hi Plasticfantastic, did you buy this c-reg "86 silver engine-less audi boxed esprit s3 from a guy in the south? I have been over to have a look at this one but body was shit and the welding he did on the chassis looked....... not so nice. just wondering if it is the same esprit we have been looking at. good luck with your build, I have never liked the F40( to modern) I like the 288gto a lot more but I very much like what you'r doing from a pistonhead point of view.

[plasticfantastic]

Hi all,

Lotus-62, yep thats the car alright! i bought it at the start of they year. The body doesn't seem to be that bad, no crash damage or cracking, it needs a coat of paint though!

Luckily the only bit modded on the chassis is the extra engine mounts, once these are sliced off the rest should be fine. Havent found any rust on it yet and the galv seems in good nick.

Hopefully will get some time tomorrow to get a bit more done to the last rear wheel tub, this is the last job before i look into taking the Esprit body off the chassis and fitting it under the F40.

Cheers

[nic996]

hey rick. Yes finish the lotus first. Lambos come second!!! Although I am thinking of taking a mould of the floor for the (near?) future. This F40 project has fired me up!! Well done plasticfantastic. You have inspired me.

BTW, getting the body off is no mean feat. Actually it's taking the interior out that is no mean feat. Bloody glue everywhere!!!!!

[richardvg]

No disrespect intended however dont you think that you would be waisting the lotus by utilising the chassis.................keep the Esprit on the road man!

[nic996]

I get the feeling that the chassis last longer then the body be it through or fire damage. Getting hold of a replacement chassis doesn't seem to be a great issue judging by the amount available from the specialists. I doubt one or two "kit" cars would make a difference. Besides, if they ever became short supply items, the chassis is about as simple as it gets. Very easy to remanufacture at a reasonable cost.

[silverfrost]

Interesting project,

Looking forward to updates on this, I think the lotus chassis is an ideal rolling chassis to use, Well designed, well tested and sticks to the road like anything, Also the conversions can be traced as a few have been done already, An audi V8 would suit the look sof the F40

Component wise the easyist way would be to copy the esprit floor section, Sell the shell your not using and buy a wrecked mid section, Glass that in with etc reinforcement and bobs your uncle,

The F40 is one of my all time favorite cars and if the replica shell is true to the origanal it will look stunning, but start changing wheelbase etc to suit the rolling chassis and it all goes pear shaped.

Keep the updates coming ,

Regards danny

[plasticfantastic]

Hi all,

Im glad to see my project is sturring emotion in people!

The plan is to make my own floor pan for the shell because i want it to be a flat floor, the chassis will be lifted slightly higher than the floors so a panel can be fitted under the final car.

I wanted to start with a rolling chassis that is complete so i had a starting point, but i also wanted it to be a chassis with decent handling unlike the many mr2/fiero/peugeot kits. I aim for this to be a car in its own right. I know it seems wasteful to take a car apart but hpefully the sacrafice of my car will save others, the body and interior will be sold to live on.... As said by other the chassis can be sourced new so this will be a good option for the future once i have my modified suspension arms sorted. The wheelbase of the chassis needs to be extended by 2.5 inches and widened by around 3 inches per side, this will be done my making new longer arms. My shell is a little longer than the original F40, mainly in the cab so there is more room in the footwell.

At one point we did have an engine for the project, we had to sell it, but im sure we will go for the same when the time comes. It was a 4.2 Jaguar superchared v8, it can be sourced alot cheaper than the Audi TT v8 and i think there will be less heat issues without the turbo's! I was glad to see the thread with someone (sorry can remember who) fitting said engine into an Esprit, really looking forward to the progress on that!

Im glad to have inspired you nic, that makes my project more worthwhile. But i did hope you would say getting the body off is easy!

Comments and ideas always apreciated

Cheers

[silverfrost]

Few points to note that may cause you a drama, You said about going out 3" on the rear, just fitting longer radius arms will not do as the extending the arms would move the rear hub out, and as the trailing arm is attached to this it prevents this mod, Unless you extend the bracket for that aswell which is not advisable! As for extending the chassis...... To be honest at this point i would just thinking about building my own tubular chassis as the mods that you will need to do to the esprit one sounds like a lot of work and can also make the chassis handle pants on the road.

The audi v8 is normally aspirated so no dramas with turbos, Its a good powerplant im on my second conversion,

Also im not sure how the sva test works now, but will you be able to use pop up head lights on this as the its will be classed as a new build kit and hence will fail the test..........

No criticisms just putting my 2p worth

Regards danny

Edited June 29, 2011 by silverfrost

[nic996]

A few words of caution. Modding the suspension is not quite that simple. Lengthening the arms will alter the geometry significantly. The arm lengths affect; the swing arm length, the camber gain, instant centre height etc. etc.... and the list goes on. I designed my own chassis in CAD over the last two years for my lambo idea and the suspension settings are a black art to say the least. It has been a very very steep learning curve. I am still far from being knowlegable let alone expert. I handed the settings to a friend in the end who does it for a living. I thought I got the settings close but after an initial run through a suspension analyser it was found to be way out. I may have misinterperted your comments but I think you need to do some research on suspension set up and design. I bowled in with the same idea and found out very quickly that it just doesn't work like that. You might want to change the hard points on the chassis to compensate for the new arm lengths. Perhaps even switch the rear to double A arms. Do the maths and I am sure it will work out fine. Good luck. Can't wait to see the next step.

[plasticfantastic]

Hi all,

I do understand that my plans for the suspension will not be as simple as just building it, this is a learning curve for me but im also not totally new to it. When i finally do get to that stage i have people that i will pass my designs onto for approval. The idea of replacing the rear end for A arms is very likely as we have our own cast alloy uprights to use that are based on a Porsche setup, so they use Brembo calipers. These will also help with the IVA as the have a mechanical handbrake drum inside the rear disk.

This morning i decided to drag the door inner and outer mouldings out of long term storage to see how they looked. A bit of time cutting, sanding and adjusting and i had both parts fitting inside the door frame. Once fixed to the body, to ensure good alignment, I bonded the inner and outer skins together. I had to cut the centre out of the inner shell so i could get inside to bond it, i plan to make this into just a frame to hold the window/winder, door hinge and latch. Then there will be an inner door skin to cover everything, this will probably be a combination of styles mainly like the stock F40 with wind up windows but it will also have the vents from the sliding window version.

I'll let the pictures do the talking............

Comments good or bad always appreciated...

Cheers

[nic996]

looks great. Keep those pictures coming!!

[plasticfantastic]

Hi all,

Well after a busy couple of days i now think i have the door hinge set up sorted. Alot of altering, trimming, swearing and altering again and its now just needing a little refinement. I started with a door hinge off a Vauxhall VX220, It's a very well designed hinge that is all alloy extruded section, it also connects the door catch to the hinge via an alloy extursion that crosses the whole door and acts as a crash bar. It also has a door stop built in. Initially i hoped to use the entire hinge but it soon became obvious that it needed considerable modification to fit my purposes. I have had to remove that crash bar but im hoping i will be able to refit it once i have the window frames installed.

This was a tricky job and one i havent really looked forward to, but it turned out not to be as bad as i expected. I really didnt want to have any moving parts inside the A post as you have to have holes to clear everything, i also wanted to see as little of the hinge as possible.

I now have the hinge inside the door which helps with assembly as its easy to get too. With the hinge in this location the front of the door closes into the A post when the door is opened, so i had to put a recess in the A post to allow this. This actually helps the strenght of the A post massively which in turn helps to door from dropping. Overall im really happy that it is strong and will be long lasting.

Next job is to start cutting and shutting the inner door that bolts to the hinge, and then the door catch.

Sorry there is a little shortage with the pictures, i'll take some of the process when i do the other side. But here they are so im sure they will explain my progress better than i can..............

Comments good or bad appreciated as always

Cheers

[plasticfantastic]

Hi all,

I would like to float an idea to you all and would appreciate a little feedback?!

I have an S3 Esprit that i plan to use the chassis and suspension from, it has already had the engine and geabox removed. I have also taken the tanks out to check them and they are in great condition. The problem i have is space and time, i dont really have time to strip the chassis from the body or the space to then store the body and interior.

What i would like to know is would anyone be interested in buying the body and interior and a cheap price, but would be willing (and able) to remove it from the chassis?

I have outside space for the work to be done, on tarmac, and the use of engine crane/stands/jack but you would need your own tools.

Heres a few pictures of the Esprit..... (sorry the headlight was up, i was having a fiddle!) I have the rear bumper and a turbo front skirt, aswell as a standard rear hatch that is missing its glass.

Alternatively if someone has an Espris chassis/damaged car that they think would suit my use better then im happy to talk deals. Or bring me an mx5 and you can have the Esprit body free?!

Comments appreciated

Cheers

[silverfrost]

Such a shame to see an old esprit like this

Whats happended to the o/s/r wheel has the suspension been beent/chassis, Pesonally i would sell as a complete project on ebay, and use some of the money to buy a rolling chassis, but if your stripping it why not sell bits off, the wheels will go on ebay, as will the doors,bonnet, light pods, etc just unbolt a few things and put them on,

Also people will want other bits so you can remove as people buy/order them, Real shame about this car i was tempted my self when it was up for sale but just dont have the room.

Still think it should be sold as a project thought as its in savable condtion.

Regards danny

[nic996]

I just seperated my body and chassis and it was not as big and time consuming job as I thought. You don't even need to remove all of the interior (which is a pig to do admittedly). It could be done in a weekend with two of you wielding the spanners (especially as you seem to have some car building talents there. Alternatively you can buy a chassis from some of the Lotus specialist for around 500quid or so second hand (as suggested). Save a bit of time and trouble and let the car go as a going concern. Just a thought....

[plasticfantastic]

Hi all,

I hope to have the time and room to take the body off the Esprit in the next few weeks, im going ahead with this instead of swapping it for a bare chassis as i need all the suspension to take measurements from.

Im still willing to offer the body and interior cheaper if someone wants to come and separate it themselves. Im after £800 if i do it or £500 if you do it yourself.

Cheers