WC Engineering ceramic turbo

[karmavore]

That really sucks about WC. I do live in Takoma Park, but I've relocated for a few months.

[Quicker]

call http://www.mjmturbos.com/ - he posts in the previous thread I linked. They rebuild any turbo and offer stage 2 and stage 3 versions of each. they can mix&match any combo you are looking for.

[MikieP]

I suppose the point I am trying to make is that I do not know, like Bibs, what I want, because I am not capable of matching the other necessary components required to make the upgrade happen as advertised via the HP numbers, and even those numbers are completely suspect, even basically wheel or crank to begin with... WC had his nuts and bolts together for a complete install and supported it with components matched to obtain close to spec based on what appear to be real world results. Most others have little to no experience with Esprits save PUK whose prices I find startlingly high PLUS costly shipping... Find some parts John!!!!

[Quicker]

here is what mjm suggested:

Your turbo is a T3 configuration. If you are satisfied with the current response (drivability)and power, stay stock.

You can't beat how the Lotus engineers calculated what the engine needs for turbo. No more no less!

If you want a bit of power, with minimal lag, ask to port the turbine a bit

bigger than stock using exducer diameter 2.1 to 2.2 (not more than). Use a 60 T3 a/r compressor 60 trim.

If you want a big power, port the turbine to stage 3 2.3 exducer and use a hybrid T04e .50 a/r.

This will support somewhere at the 400 brackets. T04e .60 will up the power more than the .50.

But.....there is a catch, the response will be late. Can't get two things at the same time.

You go up, the seesaw will tilt the other way (vice versa)!!

Use a 360 thrust bearing, I think the best stable, durable and longivity bearing. BB and ceramic are overrated and breaks a lot, hard to replace. 360 thrush bearing a bit more but only a fraction of the overrated BB.

[MikieP]

quickr,

Thanks for the narrative, but that really tells me very little that I need to know. HP is crank or wheel? What about the other components that their version will require? Not exactly agree with thrush bearing being superior to other forms and that makes me skittish on this company's products right off the bat. Am I wrong in not seeing a bolt on solution in MJM?

[Quicker]

as with most older cars - we often have to understand it more, do more ourselves, as there is not a large aftermarket to chase us. Not only was the production numbers low, but the number of owners willing to modify are even much less.

but with a little research - there is everything you need out there. Chips to re-map the fuel/spark, larger injectors, larger turbos, ....and then the stronger UN1 internals that you'll surely need. but it's not like Jegs and won't come in a box with instructions.

The cool thing about the Esprit is that there are good forums and lots of support - where someone has done it before. The issue you are having is that lot's of people of upgraded their power levels, just no one has bought it and installed it as a kit (that I know of).

The good news is that once you learn all this stuff yourself, your skills are surely needed to maintain an even 'higher strung' Esprit.

[mc21.8]

need some

http://www.squirrelp...ocalc/index.php

Edited December 4, 2011 by mc21.8

[bosbon_be]

No DIY. WC not offering anything at this time AFAIK. wish he still had the Stage 1 OR ii. nada. Do not want engine builder. Just wanted the bolt on, correctly sized injector set and S4sMKV ECU all ready to plug in. Additionally, I know there a loads of turbo aftermarketers, but that leaves me with guess work / dyno expenses getting injection and mapping taken care of at high costs.

Now we know wat you want, we need to find somebody close to WC to wake him up, telling him his customers are waiting for the next upgrade.

[karmavore]

Sounds like a job for Sanj - http://www.thelotusf...s/user/91-sanj/

[MikieP]

I think WC knows by now...

[Artie]

I'd be willing to bet if we get enough people together and pony up a committment to buy several units from him, he would get something going. But I have seen many things over the years get started and no one ponies up the $$ or GBP's for the product. I know in most cases, volume sells, and if only one person calls and requests, it doesn't mean it's going to happen. Now, 15 people call or sign up, then you have a decent volume warranting some action!

Artie

[MikieP]

I'm in.

[karmavore]

I wonder if John's sold 15 turbos ever. I don't think you'll be able to get more then 3 or 4 orders. Group Buys in the Esprit world are pitiful.

[Artie]

That's what I'm saying! If we have a serious group of new owners or people that want one, we NEED to get it strongly represented so it CAN be done and not end up a puff out, as before!

[karmavore]

I bet John will build you 15 at a discount and then you could sell them over time for a profit. Over a looooooooooong tiiiiiiiiiime....

[StevenD57]

When I talked to John last week he said when he did the first order of special center sections for the bolt in replacement turbos he had to commit to a run of 200. I think he said he has accounted for approximately 147 - 170 (I forget what was the exact figure). He said he would not be doing something like that again because he does not feel the market is there to support that volume. I would have to agree with him.

[karmavore]

Wow! 150+! That blows my mind. Pretty impressive considering there were only, what, like 1700 relevant models ever made.

[Artie]

Wow! That's a huge commitment for a car that was run in such a limited production!

[sailorbob]

I may be changing my prediction Garrett have announced they are now doing GTX286*R turbos.

[Squelch]

Long post.. and to the moderators, I'm not "selling" product here, just suppling information that has been requested.

I was communicating with a customer and he mentioned this thread in regards to our turbo supply.

As you may know when have had some issues with the supply chain for one of the key parts to build up our ceramic ball bearing turbo. At this time I am unsure if we will be getting any more of the parts in, and do not know anytime frame. The key thing to keep in mind here is that the turbo assembly used in the Esprit dates back to the late 80’s and sooner or later there was bound to be a supply problem.

This situation, along with the problems associated with getting back unusable cores, or sometimes no core at all has severely impacted out ability to provide a bolt in replacement.

I have worked with another supplier to provide a suitable replacement for an upgraded turbo. We have been able to come up with a configuration that provides the desired performance. This is a genuine Garrett ball bearing turbo (dual bearings, not ceramic) and will be offered as an outright purchase, with no core required.

The unit is nearly a direct bolt in. The key item is the coolant lines. This will require different coolant fittings, and depending upon the compressor housing, it may be necessary to trim a small portion of the heat shield between the turbo and the head.

The coolant line issue we are addressing now, and hope to be able to put together a kit of the fittings needed. The primary difference is that the factory Lotus turbo has a tapered pipe thread type port for the coolant fittings. Most turbo suppliers changed to straight thread banjo type fittings many years ago. We addressed this with our ceramic ball bearing turbo by having a run of center sections made to accept the bearings AND have the older tapered thread fittings. In order to offer a direct bolt in again, we would have to commit to a run of two hundred center sections, and I don’t believe that this would be a good business investment as I can’t see selling two hundred turbos for the 4 cylinder Esprits’.

The heat shield can be addressed by a simple paper template to trace the line to trim.

The last item on the turbo is the air flow performance. This turbo flows significantly more air than a stock turbo, spools up MUCH quicker than a stock turbo, and even faster than out former “Stage I” turbo. It is nearly identical performance wise to what we offered as a special order for our “Stage II” turbo. This sounds like a good thing, but it exacerbates one fault in the factory ECM. The factory ECM (no matter what code your running) has difficulty controlling boost properly. This is due to the programming limitations and processor speed of the ECM, not the tuning. There is no way around this issue, short of installing a standalone electronic boost controller.

To sum things up:

Pros:

Modern update turbo design, using current technology turbine wheel, compressor wheel, and housings Bolt to the factory exhaust manifold, bolts up to the factory down pipe. Uses the factory oil feed and return lines, uses the factory air box intake hose, and outlet to the charge cooler. Greatly improved airflow, able to support over 350hp with proper supporting upgrades. Available as a direct outright purchase, no core required.

Cons:

Requires different coolant fittings, requires trimming of the heat shield. Can be used with the factory boost control, but is HIGHLY recommend to use a standalone electronic boost controller.

This unit is available now on cars that come into our shop for service work (we have had them on cars already) and I hope to be able to offer an “over the counter” kit with all fittings, templates and recommended boost controller in the next few months. Pricing will be similar to our “Stage I” turbo at around $1600-$1700 for the turbo with fitting kit, boost controller will be additional.

Thanks !

John Welch

WC engineering LLC

[Bibs]

[karmavore]

I'm running the exact (AFAIK) turbo John is discussing. Mine may have even been the first installed. Anyway, here are some dynos:

[MikieP]

karmavore,

Curiously, your 273 HP was measured at the crank or at the wheels?

Edited December 8, 2011 by MikieP

[Quicker]

he mentioned a mustang dyno.... rwhp - so he estimates it at 330hp crank in the post.

[MikieP]

Quicker,

Thanks for the reply. I know 0 about dynos hence my curiosity. 330 up from 264 (again assuming that is a correct number at the crank from Lotus) then? So around 25% improvement? John says that the new turbo is basically uncontrollable by the factory ecm therefore unless you buy a Boost Controller that gets and uses knock sensor input to lower boost when necessary, you are running a detonation machine then?

Edited December 8, 2011 by MikieP