Lotus in the post DB era

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

Nice to see DRB doing their bit for the arms trade too... can't say I'm chuffed to read that, although doubtless someone will tell me Lotus have been making parts for the military for years. I hope that's not the case though. 

[Lotus757]

Network expansion: Good!

New model variants: Good!

'Turn around in 2016': Believe it when I see it, but good!

6000 cars per year: Good!

But the 'rebranding exercise'? Hopefully this means something positive e.g. Lotus finally shaking off its kit-car image, and not Lotus becoming the brand for protons with wide wheels!

I think they are talking more about a marketing presence, getting away from the Hip Hop young urban professional who, in all likelihood, would not be the segment to buy a Lotus. They are more likely to play on their F1 and LMP/GT name recognition and mimic a strategy not unlike Porsche.

[chandrew]

Nice to see DRB doing their bit for the arms trade too... can't say I'm chuffed to read that, although doubtless someone will tell me Lotus have been making parts for the military for years. I hope that's not the case though. 

 

It's always a hard one for automotive manufacturers.  JLR, Merc, VW......  Try finding one that doesn't supply the military.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

I just can't see armoured cars made out of the same stuff as my Evora! 

[chandrew]

No, but I guess the photo of a Lotus-engineered military Hummer test vehicle in this edition of Proactive might not be what you're wanting.

[DanyBaharFan]

They are more likely to play on their F1 and LMP/GT name recognition and mimic a strategy not unlike Porsche.

Isnt this what Dany-boy was trying to do all along???

[Exploded]

Isnt this what Dany-boy was trying to do all along???

Yep with 5 imaginary cars! Luckily Lotus had still a spare car on their sleeves from the MJK era... MJK to the rescue again, although he didn't knew it when he had it created

Edited December 10, 2012 by Exploded

[cnapan]

I don't understand the 'kit car' image, they've not made kits for 40-50 years, I"m surprised anyone remembers those days, but let's face it making kits didn't hurt Caterham when they sealed the deal with Renault.

 

Lotus cars these days are really well built, don't see the problem there. 

 

The majority of cars made by Lotus today continue to be 'heavily compromised second cars'. Evora aside, most are 'elisesque' (i.e. a right faff to get in and out of with basic interiors, wearing amounts of cabin noise on long journeys and less than perfect ergonomics, switchgear and so on). It's not 'kit', granted, but it's not what punters expect for their considerable piles of money.

 

The Evora was their first attempt in a while to build something 'porsche-ish' in terms of cabin quality and they got only so far initially, though things have improved by all accounts. 

 

So what I mean by getting away from the 'kit car image' is having a range of cars which, while they can certainly entertain on the track, are not such a huge compromise as daily drivers - both in terms of practicality and perceived luxury.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

I agree with you there, the Evora's very good indeed, a worthy addition to the Elise variants. The new Exige S is amazing, although I agree I'd like to see a little more departure from the well trodden Elise path, an attempt at a different interior would be a massive help, but then that's a car that's aimed at their existing market and by all accounts the order book's looking healthy. 

 

I've no idea what they should do next but a new Esprit would be welcome. 

[robcarter]

Or a McClaren competitor? DB would be proud of our 40 page discussion... Can we keep it going until he makes a big re-entrance stage right!

[TBD]

Or a McClaren competitor? DB would be proud of our 40 page discussion... Can we keep it going until he makes a big re-entrance stage right!

 

Good point. After 40 pages of discussion we are pretty much back t the point where DB's dream of a Lotus relaunch with 5 new cars.

 

On the other hand, today I would be happy to see at least one of these new cars - the Esprit, which should be a McLaren competitor.

[Exploded]

The Evora was their first attempt in a while to build something 'porsche-ish' in terms of cabin quality and they got only so far initially, though things have improved by all accounts. 

I reckon if Lotus would have had Bahar or Porsche money under MJK, the Evora would have been even much better.

 

 

On the other hand, today I would be happy to see at least one of these new cars - the Esprit, which should be a McLaren competitor.

Me too, but unless DRB is going to throw in another 200 million on top of the existing debts, it's not going to happen.

[richardvg]

I reckon if Lotus would have had Bahar or Porsche money under MJK, the Evora would have been even much better.

 

 

Me too, but unless DRB is going to throw in another 200 million on top of the existing debts, it's not going to happen.

When are you going to realise that if you want to play with the BIG BOYS ,you will need to throw bigger money at it !?

The 200 million was only half of the money that was projected and in all honesty 5 cars were the bigger plan .............not one .

It has now diminished to a "let us see what we can save " or a "Oh DB was spending ALLLL the money on lavish goods and building" 

Come on guys ,you are cleverer than this ! Really and truly ...what did he really spend 5/6 million ....still tuppance in the greater scheme .The cars shown were really spectacular and had they given the money to the company that was promised (Proton) ,a very different picture would appear  today !

[Bibs]

£200m is pennies in car industry terms. As per the recent Steve Davies article, BMW are spending $1.4bn on engine development alone this year. 

[richardvg]

Thanks Bibs .....the motor industry globally build 60 million passenger cars (not commercial) !!!! In terms of development approximately 3 trillion dollars is spent on development alone.
Post DB ....I think it sucks .Lotus is at present boring ,stoic and run by bean counters .Colin Chapman ,MJK and DB all had one thing in common ;
"They never had enough money to fulfil their dreams of Lotus !"
This lot here now are over conservative and would be better off developing a car to take on Chana in the small vehicle market .!!
I challenge anyone to prove otherwise .

[Exploded]

I agree Bibs, but don't you think BMW sells a lot more cars in a year than Lotus does? In their best year Lotus sold around 1500 Esprits in 1 year. When you scale the sales back from BMW to Lotus, I think you will understand 200 million is to Lotus a lot more than what 1.2 bn is to BMW.

[chandrew]

I reckon if Lotus would have had Bahar or Porsche money under MJK, the Evora would have been even much better.

 

This is always going to be a hard one to discuss, as none of us really knows. It's the old one of whether quality adds much more cost.  From my experience it's much more a mindset thing.  

 

If Lotus had launched the Evora as it is now then I guess much of its perceived issues / reputation wouldn't apply.  Somebody said it was good enough.  The Exige S delay suggests to me that thinking is disappearing.

 

It's easy to say Lotus didn't have enough money, but Porsche were skint when they launched the 993 and it's arguably the best made 911 ever.

[TBD]

Interestingly there is a fitting quote on Spiegel.de regarding their test of the Maserati Quattroporte, "luxury without perfection has never worked out."

 

As a car buyer if you have enough money to choose there is no reason to compromise on quality and if you don't have that kind of money you generally cant afford the compromise on quality - the maintenance costs will kill you.

 

As a carmaker the initial quality gaps of the Evora have cost Lotus double, not only through the poor image drawing down sales, but also in the high cost of warranty repairs.

[Exploded]

Well I've driven several Evora Launch Editions and to be honest, I didn't notice that many faults/problems with the car. And recently 2 friends of mine bought a second hand Evora Launch Edition as they are becoming very cheap around here, and my friends think the car is/drives great as well. But then another friend has bought a new expensive "perfect" MY2012 Evora, he has a lot of problems with the car, starting with the door locks, all kinds of electronic problems. Really crazy.

So maybe the Launch Edition wasn't perfect, I think a lot of opinions are subjective and not objective, but I can honestly say that the "Bahar" MY2012 is very far from perfect as well! And I know people who can confirm this.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Exploded

[TBD]

Well, I also consider myself very lucky to own a MY11 Evora S and certainly wouldn't trade it. I might get soft for an Audi R8, but that is not reasonably affordable.

Nonetheless the Evora does have quite a few quality niggles  and I have been to the dealer more often than most premium car buyers would accept.

[Bibs]

but I can honestly say that the "Bahar" MY2012 is very far from perfect as well! And I know people who can confirm this.

 

That's pretty much out of line with my experiences and I'd say most people who have experienced the MY12 cars. Any other opinions on the MY12 updates to the Evora?

[mdavies]

Rebranding?!  And I've just taken advantage of the half-price sale to buy my first Lotus Original?  Now I see why they are selling the kit off cheap!

[fmxa]

I suspect this 50% off deal is the beginning of the liquidation sale and eventual end of the Lotus Store and clothing line

[Exploded]

Well I was in London a few weeks ago, curious as I was, I went to see the store of course. I was completely alone in the store 5 people who work there, were standing at the counter really doing nothing. 20mins later I passed the Ferrari store, there were queues, people standing outside, absolutely crazy.

As I said before, F1, IndyCar, LMP, cars like the T125, the Evora GTE and a store in London, those are all very great ideas, BUT only if your sales of your core business (ie selling cars like hell) are running like a train.

Anyway I wouldn't be surprised if fmxa is completely right.

[TBD]

I suspect this 50% off deal is the beginning of the liquidation sale and eventual end of the Lotus Store and clothing line

Look at the website. They are giving 50% on a small selection of clothing, just as every boutique does at season's end. At the same time they are adding new merchandise. A going out of business sale look different.