[Autocar] Group Lotus being liquidated

[Simon350S]

 However bad the situation is at Lotus if you look at things ( formule one,football (Norwich),product line up) it is still Lotus-TF 3-0  

I see what your trying to get at but this isn't a good comparison.

Lotus F1 isn't lotus

Norwich football team isn't lotus

Lotus has 2 car models

Lotus/DRB has zero marketing drive

TF has his own football team.

Has his own airline

Has his own car company

Only 1 model at present but a manageable and invested future product line

Actively pushing publicity for caterham cars and keeping the public informed of business plans.

I'd say its more like 4-1 to TF with lotus taking the point for having 2 cars.

[Gabber]

SImon last time I checked there were 3 models Elise,Exige,Evora. I know Lotus F1 is not owned by Lotus but the connection is there. We know how the situation is ( do we actually how about the Proton loan for the team ) but for most outsiders Lotus cars and F1 are one and the same. I think Lotus F1 does Lotus cars more favours than Caterham F1 does to Caterham cars. DB did spend lots of money on stupid things but TF is not far away from it. F1 only cost money,football only cost money and you won't get rich from Caterham either.

[Günter]

@Serge:

is there only a 'Caterham' sticker on the caterham F1 cars ??    ..or a 'caterham' sticker on the tricot of those footballers and nothing else ?

 

..

[brian.harper@netassoc.net]

Considering DRB and Lotus were not bright enough to even keep the Elise and Exige compliant with US air bag rules (so no longer available in the US), and the Evora has only a 12 month exception because of the same, how does one stay in business when you turn your back on 50% of your business?

[Moxie]

$1,500 backgammon sets? In all seriousness, you wouldn't believe what Lotus tried to push the dealers over here in to in terms of selling swag. It was ludicrous. 

[Günter]

@BrianHarper: 

what is if insurers would trust in the talent of US drivers in the same way as in European (ROW) drivers ?  

..or if lawyers and insurance claims are focussed on fair handling of facts, not on claim-benefits and participation rights ..like it is done there on your side of the sea

 

..think there would be less risk for premium payouts in the US, and therefore less insurance governed 'safety-investements' and this can result in a lower level of manufacturer legislations and government regulations. Think you know that the whole world makes a joke on your USA for the dumb McDonalds customers -who are not able to drink hot coffee without getting into trouble.. same is for all those yellow labeled *warnings* on cars on many areas *don't do this ..don't do that*  ..know what I mean  

 

..see it as it is, it is the US policy on 'Manufacturer requirements' that makes small business manufacturers go down on sales

[brian.harper@netassoc.net]

Considering Lotus would have known for quite some time the change was coming, instead of spending 'millions' as they have quoted, they could have picked up an air bag system that was compliant from another manufacturer, like many of the parts they use from non Lotus sources anyway.  A bottom dweller Kia apparently even meets the new spec's, they are still in the market.

 

The Elise/Exige did very well on this side of the pond sales wise, and if you check past production numbers, yes the US has generally been responsible for 50% of Lotus sales.

 

If Lotus can not build cars that meet US regulations, their days are quite numbered.  Plain and simple.  The Evora has not sold well here, check ebay.....  2/3's of the listings are from dealers hoping to move them out.  If the air bag spec does not come in compliance, even the Evora is gone from our shores by this time next year, leaving 0 Lotus models available here.

 

I just find it very dishearting to see the brand self destruct due to its own short sited self, having been a lotus owner since the mid 70's.  Little need to worry about new models, if you can not sell your current models to continue in business.

 

You laugh at our coffee, we laugh at you having a king and queen.  However, we have a president that thinks he is king of the world, so there you go.

 

Brian

Edited April 3, 2013 by bharper

[Günter]

Brian -not on your coffee, on the fat ladys who try to claim for 'this coffe was hot, so I harmed my mouth' type of thinking ..know what I mean

 

KIA is a million seller -investements for US markets/costs are therefore easy recalculated over the whole sales figure in global aspects  ..so not like Lotus with its small production numbers I would say

 

 

..keep in mind, one of the old Ford-Mondeo [the 'world car'] petrol engines had a development cost of 300million (think Euros it was) and the Diesel for this production series was developed for 700million   [the Diesel that was later on for the next model series replaced by a PSA Diesel jointventure project]    

 

-that would be a lot of money for the Lotus type of car development  ..right !?

 

 

 

 

 

..ohh, by the way -it's the UK with this queen & princess Kate and prince William thing there

 

-we have a *East German Bulldog-woman* (see a picture from 'Merkel' with here ugly scientist/educated face  ..not the type of public relations or politics front-girl you would like to have as a nation leader) 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2013 by Günter

[Tallic]

AHHH!

[Bibs]

Just a quick update on how our visitors see DRB's stewardship of Lotus in our homepage poll.

 

The green is good, yellows are bad or indifferent...

 

[TBD]

Günter, those pictures do not belong on this forum. We only like to look at pretty things, like our Lotus!

[mdavies]

Might I suggest that the poll should include a "Don't know/Can't tell" option?  Without that, I suspect that voters have distributed that actual view between the Bad and the Indifferent categories.  I haven't voted, for that reason.

 

The apparent lack of information and visible PR is indeed a strong reason to vote negatively, but not, IMO, enough to override what might be improved focus, production quality and production numbers - which might all be happening, we sort of gather, but only from "leakage", such as here.

 

Irrespective of those potential positives, on only a single example - well sourced - I am perturbed to have been told that there was, in that case, zero interest from Lotus on facilitating an organisation wishing to develop the sort of after-market enhancement that would appeal to those of us who are interested in what actually goes on under the bonnet. This was apparently in contrast to what had been expected on the basis of prior experience.  I wonder whether Porsche is now taken as an example? I briefly looked at the new Cayman S the other day; a beautiful object inside and out, but coming away, I realised I'd not spotted the engine.  In there somewhere I suppose.

 

There is a recent substantial posting on the Evora CAI thread regarding the actual power, accurately measured, of a standard Evora S.  To say sub-par is an understatement. What concerned me more than the numbers - hugely improved after considerable personal effort by the poster - was Lotus' attitude to his expressed concern. As I read the post, it seems it was high-handed, with (after a check) a "take it as it is, it's within our specification" attitude.  Doubtless Porsche would have phrased and dealt with it in a better manner, but I suspect that technical complaints about the performance of their products would, in principle, have been the same - it is what it is. (I won't speculate on whether the issue would have been as likely to have arisen in their case.)

 

Drawing these threads together, if "Porsche principles" are to be adopted, that is certainly an arguably successful approach, but it must include "No need to know where the engine is - performance will be to spec."  Alternatively, and what some of us have known, accepted and (almost) been attracted by, if the huge constraints, that we appreciate do exist for Lotus, cause a product to have a problem, there has to be a far more open, interactive and supportive attitude - both to organisations that may seek to provide enhancements and to individuals ploughing their own furrows.

Mel

Edited April 18, 2013 by mdavies

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

I don't see a point in improving the quality of the cars if no one knows anything about the company other than it's in dire $hit and the owners can't be bothered to talk to anyone.

 

DB has been accused of many things but he understood the value of PR and branding, right now the F1 team's doing a great job for the Lotus name so perhaps DRB figure they don't need to bother. Either way publicising the company and building the brand doesn't seen to be part of their master plan. 

 

Might I suggest that the poll should include a "WTF are DRB playing at" option?

[mdavies]

Stirling, agree, both yours and mine!  Bibs, a new poll?

[Bibs]

12,000 members, 19,000 facebook likes and 60,000 monthly unique visitors mate! We could start an army and invade Hethel

[Luc2000]

Not a bad idea at all!

Just make some sort of online petition and post it on a few different forums. Here, lotustalk, seloc, etc.

I think lots of people would sign it, at least I know I would. Maybe lotus will respond, maybe they won't, but it's worth giving a try.

[Bibs]

Irrespective of those potential positives, on only a single example - well sourced - I am perturbed to have been told that there was, in that case, zero interest from Lotus on facilitating an organisation wishing to develop the sort of after-market enhancement that would appeal to those of us who are interested in what actually goes on under the bonnet.

 

This is the exact opposite of correct. If you'd like clarification, please speak to Louis Kerr in Lotus Racing (01953 608000) who is spearheading the facilitation and development of those kind of parts once again for Lotus. 

[Moxie]

I don't see a point in improving the quality of the cars if no one knows anything about the company 

Regarding the information vacuum--which has simply gone on too long, period--and having been impressed by Patrick Peal's rollout strategy for the Evora and recently conversing with him via LinkedIn, I vote for bringing him back on board as a consultant: http://www.tribepr.com/home

[mdavies]

I wrote:

"Irrespective of those potential positives, on only a single example - well sourced - I am perturbed to have been told that there was, in that case, zero interest from Lotus on facilitating an organisation wishing to develop the sort of after-market enhancement that would appeal to those of us who are interested in what actually goes on under the bonnet."

 

This is the exact opposite of correct. If you'd like clarification, please speak to Louis Kerr in Lotus Racing (01953 608000) who is spearheading the facilitation and development of those kind of parts once again for Lotus. 

 

Bibs, if the specific instance that I recounted is the opposite of the general case, I am very pleased to hear it. I was careful to note it was a single instance. However you cannot say my instance was not correct!  I was told, directly, by someone in authority in a significant organisation, who had not expected the reaction he received.  I am not going to be drawn into revealing further details here, but this was not a "chat over a pint".

 

Thank you for identifying the man who is leading the charge re special parts. A useful name to note.  I hope his brief does encompass the needs of those not quite as hardcore as the racing specialists. Those who want a little more, e.g. giving both versions of the Evora the 10% more that, had Lotus done so originally, IMO, would have considerably enhanced sales. Or, recalling the other thread I mentioned, dare I say, bringing the standard car they have purchased up to what they hoped it would be. 

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

Not a bad idea at all!

Just make some sort of online petition and post it on a few different forums. Here, lotustalk, the playground, etc.

I think lots of people would sign it, at least I know I would. Maybe lotus will respond, maybe they won't, but it's worth giving a try.

Definitely... if we can get the numbers high enough they might just take notice...

 

They probably won't bother responding BUT they might just take notice! 

[arbell9]

- ugly scientist/educated face  ..

 

Hey gunter  - not fair on Scientists or the educated to say they have ugly faces.

 

not all do - well maybe german ones lol

 

I would like to introduce exhibit A: British Scientific Totty.

 

 

 

Totally off topic I know but i couldn't let the comment go unnoticed by us boffins

[Günter]

Alex, as for some 'SonyMusicEntertainment and the odd German GEMA' (dictatorship) -copyright reasons  ..I cannot see your beauty.

However, all I can say is (based on the university life over here) ..as more 'intellectual' a girl is in her mind and behavior, as more this girl sees points like 'appeal' and her efforts in good looks for the opposite gender as a waste of time -and this 'girls stuff' is not focused to her intellectual aims. 

 

If you now say there are others who mix it up and level it out in a good proportion at least. We can be happy that there are still a few girls around ,who do not look like Einstein on one hand, but at least have something more to offer than just a head with nice face and hair, two t**** , a slim body and makeup