RS24 (R12) Air Con Regas Supplier

[Jamie Garroch]

First things first, I've seen information about identifying if the air con system has been upgraded from R12 to R134a gas and apparently the way to tell is by looking at a label on the compressor in the RHS of the engine bay but I can't see any such gold or green label:

 

R12 Gold Label SD-508 SANDEN, R134a Green Label SD7H15 SANDEN*

 

Anyone got a picture?

 

Assuming my '88 Esprit Turbo has not been converted (it appears from LEW* that R134a was introduced in 1995), does anyone know of a place near Berkshire (UK) that provides the drop-in RS24 regas?  The closest I've found so far is this one in Folkstone but that's quite a drive, although probably quite fun:

 

http://subzeroac.co.uk/

 

There's another one that appears to not exist anymore (domain appears to be for sale : http://mbautoaircon.com/) called MB Auto Air Conditioning in Newbury which would have been ideal.

 

I've rung many others and they are all R134a only, including Kwik Fit which recently did my wife's newer car for £49.

 

* Source : http://www.lotusespritworld.com/EGuides/EMaintenance/AC_Charging.html

[dodge1979]

You can use 124a in the r12 system. I have done so with mine with no issues..you will need to change the fill and drain valves that are located on the pipes under the engine, zip tied to the chassis, to the newer type in order to fill the system. They can be bought for a couple of pounds each from Autokool. Simply take out the valve core from the original ports and screw the new ports ontop of the original.

Yes the new gas is thinner, no it doesnt last for ever. Chances are like most Esprits the gas will last the summer and ull regas next year..also make sure you replace the reciever/dryer unit in the front 'luggage' compartment too..cylindrical item with a hose in and one out and two wires attached..

[rogerch]

The pipes used in the older Esprits, mines 88, are slightly porous, so the finer muliculed gas 134 leaks out over time.

Our esteemed member Steve from Avoca did the research on this and came up with a product Hychill HR12, which is a propane and Butane based refrigerant.

A number of us OZ residents are now using it, myself included. Added bonus, here is it attracts less tax and is therefore cheaper.

 

http://www.hychill.com.au/

[red vtec]

I Had mine done with a drop in replacement, I used intocool in Burnham on Crouch Essex

[Jamie Garroch]

OK. Having been over the road to see our local friendly Kwik Fit folks this afternoon, I found the label on the compressor, just covered in so much dirt that I couldn't even see it at home. Here's a pic for anyone else looking for it, which confirms it's the original unconverted R12 compressor based on the SD-508 marking:

 

 

Thanks for the other input and introduction of another gas (how many are there?!).

 

One thing struck me today. When I was looking through the service history, I found a couple of regas charges but they never said which gas. It makes me wonder if someone would have put R134a in an unconverted system.

[Jamie Garroch]

I Had mine done with a drop in replacement, I used intocool in Burnham on Crouch Essex

 

 

I've just spoken the Reader Aircon in Woking (after finding them in this LEW thread) and have been told that although they used to provide the drop in replacement RS24 that it's no longer available and they recommend an upgrade to the system based on a choice of either minimum requirements or a belt-and-braces approaches:

 

Min: drier + port valves for around £300+VAT

B&B: min + compressor for around £900+VAT

 

Prices subject to inspection and evaluation.

 

So I'm wondering if a drop in replacement still exists in the UK.

 

When did you get yours done red vtec?

The search continues. I just found this very useful PDF guide from A-GAS which includes an upgrade map on the last page: (although it doesn't say what is 'drop-in' and what requires system upgrade!)

 

 

 

Another update. I've just spoken to this Avacs air con specialist in Alton (South of Basingstoke) and they don't recommend RS24 (even if you can get it) as it doesn't carry the lubricant around the system properly.  I'm going to take it down to them in June and get a quote to upgrade to R134a which will include the port valves and drier/receiver for a budgeted £200-£300 but they advised caution as some hoses may need replacing too due to the barrier leakage effect with the smaller molecular nature of R134a.

[dodge1979]

Put bluntly what a massive rip-off. 200-300 quid,? I think not. The valves are 2-3 pounds each, two needed and the reciever dryer is nothing special. Universal ones are available for 30-40 pounds and easy to fit..and access is faultless as its in the front compartment near the brake master cylinder..then a drain and recharge will cost 40-50 pounds...

As for hose change, yes its down to molecular leakage but hoses would need to be made to order and run the whole length of the car through the n/s sill, this would then entail front rad removal in most cases which would end up with very high bills if your rads are not in prime condition. (engine, chargecooler or aircon)..

[Mr_John111]

Jamie

Have you considered Freeze 12? It's an R12 replacement.

I have some that I was going to put in Sue's car.bit discovered that the original compressor was seized, then I was going to convert to R134a even found a brand new compressor at £50 but in the end sold the car before getting the A/C working.

the refrigerant is just sitting in my garage gathering dust. I'm in Newbury (sounds like you are in the south having mentioned Basingstoke and Woking previously. You are welcome to it. PM me of you are interested

BTW before you ask no I don't have the compressor it went on eBay

John

[Jamie Garroch]

Put bluntly what a massive rip-off. 200-300 quid,? I think not. The valves are 2-3 pounds each, two needed and the reciever dryer is nothing special. Universal ones are available for 30-40 pounds and easy to fit..and access is faultless as its in the front compartment near the brake master cylinder..then a drain and recharge will cost 40-50 pounds...

As for hose change, yes its down to molecular leakage but hoses would need to be made to order and run the whole length of the car through the n/s sill, this would then entail front rad removal in most cases which would end up with very high bills if your rads are not in prime condition. (engine, chargecooler or aircon)..

 

Interesting. Do you have any recommendations for where I could buy those parts Darren?  In addition to my issues under John's msg below, how would I change the valves before paying for a drain and regas?  Hoses - ouch!

 

Jamie

Have you considered Freeze 12? It's an R12 replacement.

I have some that I was going to put in Sue's car.bit discovered that the original compressor was seized, then I was going to convert to R134a even found a brand new compressor at £50 but in the end sold the car before getting the A/C working.

the refrigerant is just sitting in my garage gathering dust. I'm in Newbury (sounds like you are in the south having mentioned Basingstoke and Woking previously. You are welcome to it. PM me of you are interested

BTW before you ask no I don't have the compressor it went on eBay

John

 

Thanks for the offer John. I'm not sure I can do this myself though. It raises too many questions for me as an aircon newbie such as:

1. What do I do with the old gas?
2. How can I pressure test before refill?
3. How do I refill the system?

The cost above may well be a rip off but my time is more valuable and I'd be happy to pay a couple of hundred quid so as not to have to search the Internet each year for a non-R134a solution.   Of course, I'd rather pay less to just have it refilled by a drop in replacement :-)

 

Finally, I got a reply from the Lotus specialist in Birmingham who suspects my unconverted system was filled with R134a back in 2009.  My jaw dropped at that email 

[Mr_John111]

Jamie

Just to clarify, I wasn't planning to fill it myself also being an A/C virgin

I had arranged for sharps in Newbury to do it as I know Peter sharp and he's a top bloke he is the one who found that the compressor was siezed

John

[dodge1979]

Valves are available from Autokool, the reciever/dryer can be found on ebay as a universal item..as for time..maybe 20-30mins, if the bolts holding your undertray on are siezed! Its really simple...as for the regas, that can be done either by a mobile guy, or a local specialist...whatever remains of gas are in the system mostly will escape when you change the valves, then the aircon specialist will vacuum drain the system to take out whats left etc..and refill.. Home top up diy kits are available commonly, but you need a fair amount of the cans to reach the right pressures from an empty system, gauges are also available too...

[fjmuurling]

I renewed my AC system a couple of years ago,

 

http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/21888-ac-renewal/

 

 

It's a big job.

[Jamie Garroch]

I renewed my AC system a couple of years ago,

 

http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/21888-ac-renewal/

 

 

It's a big job.

 

Now that is scary - even without the photos!  Sends a shiver up my spine just thinking about it - without R12, RS24 or R134a!

[fjmuurling]

I know about the missing pictures, don't know how to rectify the problem (maybe someone can point me in the right direction). If you want i can email you the pictures, just let me know.

Routing the new hose inside the fueltank compartment is very time consuming unless you remove the fueltank.