Right then better start my '77 S1 project...

[dixi4uk]

https://youtu.be/EuQrtwljUKc

Simple wires simply explained

Mike

I do like this clip showing the basic operation of the Mazda lifting motor.

Good find. I do hope this helps Luke resolve his problems.

Edited May 6, 2015 by dixi4uk

[CharlieCroker]

I've turned my attention to the rear boot area after struggling with those mx5 headlight lift motors, need a break from that job. Anyway, I've managed to complete the rear and create a neat enclosure for the boot. I made up some cardboard templates to bulid some side panels, once those were in place I templated a shelf also in cardboard. Once I was happy with fit I transferred that to 9mm mdf and then proceeded to cover that in canvas. Nice and neat now and beneath tge cover panel is a large storage area for all manor of bits and bobs.

[Barrykearley]

That looks well smart

Are you taking her to brooklands tomorrow??

[CharlieCroker]

Unfortunately no, I've had to pull out. I aim to get to at least one specific Lotus show this year so keep an eye out!

[Denis247]

680 replies to one topic. Gotta be a record for any forum. How does this compare to your experiences on the VW forums Luke?

[CharlieCroker]

680 to this thread? 18,000 page views on here 50,000 on RetroRides, I must be doing something right! In all honesty I've enjoyed every single post that you've all made and there has been little or no negativity to my Elite even though I know it goes against the grain a little. The excel guys at the NEC were very positive towards the car and accepted me as one off their own which was very kind of them. I've worked bloody hard bringing this car back to life and there is still work to do, so I hope that my posts and photo diary and all our chats and discussion help others on their builds. I don't do cliches or try to be anything other than down to earth with my comments and I am certainly no expert mechanic, so all the help is invaluable and I greatly appreciate any help directed at my elite. I hope anyone reading the build just enjoys the read and photos and I welcome any advice. Right enough of the sob story, my new mx5 motors have arrived, lets see if these barstewards work!

[Barrykearley]

Good luck with the motors!!!!

[CharlieCroker]

Guess what? They've worked straight off the bat, 180 stop, 180 stop, get in! I reckon we are now good to go, I think the original wiring step-up that blackeclat and clive suggested will now work off of the 5pin relay. Don't ask me why the others have failed, I simply couldn't tell you, something fried inside maybe. Won't be able to work on these until the weekend, busy week ahead. Plus I've got a new alternator coming, new cambelt, v-belts, who said this build was finished!

[clivef38]

Result nice one. Elite never ending story.

Clive

[dixi4uk]

Guess what? They've worked straight off the bat, 180 stop, 180 stop, get in! I reckon we are now good to go, I think the original wiring step-up that blackeclat and clive suggested will now work off of the 5pin relay. Don't ask me why the others have failed, I simply couldn't tell you, something fried inside maybe. Won't be able to work on these until the weekend, busy week ahead. Plus I've got a new alternator coming, new cambelt, v-belts, who said this build was finished!

It makes me wonder if the first motors were for a different application. For both to have the same 360 deg action makes this a distinct possibility.

Now with your inventive mind in gear what good use could they be put to???

[CharlieCroker]

Got no idea, as soon as I fit these good motors then just for the shere sake of it I'm gunna dismantle one of the old 'bad' to see if there is anything fried inside, I will not be beaten! All good fun and at least should anyone else decide to do the conversion I can advise should need be. Next job though is a new alternator, I'm still getting unusual things happen with my battery, I belive the alternator is on it's way out.

[dixi4uk]

If my memory serves me correctly you will have the huge foreign alternator as fitted to aircon models. A Lucas would be a lot easier to replace with one from the SD1 Rover, and a few other cars, which are high output (65amp I think). Most average Lucas are 35-43 amp. They are handed but are easily changed with repair service kits very cheaply available.

I recall you were having sudden power loss in the battery which is a common fault if the alternator has a short. But of course it could be a short elsewhere draining the battery. I assume you have noted if you have a sustantial spark when connecting the battery terminals? This is a clear indication of a short.

Best of luck

[CharlieCroker]

I don't recall a substantial spark when connecting the terminals to the battery, infact it never seems to spark. I've bought a 65amp off ebay, praying that it is good. I want to eliminate the alternator, if it happens again with a good alternator then I know the fault lies elsewhere, short or a drain somewhere. Weird thing is, I came back from a show on sunday, volt meter reading 11-12 volts all the way back, half hour run. Pull the car into the garage, went indoors for a cuppa then 15 minutes later tried to start it up, nothing, flat battery? I have to resolve this as my confidence in a long run is very low.

[dixi4uk]

No spark, no drain.

I think your voltage reading should be higher I would expect a reading of 13.5v when a battery is low.

So that would indicate the alternator has a poor ouput. I am sure that a multimeter can be used to check output when the engine is running. I used to have a niffty Snap On gadget that clipped onto the wire that showed the output until someone found it before it was lost. There is probably a cheaper version available on eBay, very handy for a quick check.

Incidently on my BMW if the battery drops below 12v, say 11.5v, the engine will not turn over so it does not take much for a car not to start.

[Barrykearley]

Static reading of a battery should be about 12v.

With the engine running - and alternator belt driving the alternator....... You should see 13.5-13.8 v or there abouts.

If you don't get that - check earths to alternator - if that's ok - bin the alternator and fit a new one......

[CharlieCroker]

So I've been changing belt new of course. And much fun in the process, was only able to get the old cam belt off by releasing the tensioner screw completely out of the housing! Seriously a major pita (pain in the arse) to get back in without stripping tge thread, first attempt saw the screw spring off and into oblivion, spent the whole weekend looking for the sod, turns out it flew off up into and above the radiator, school boy error! Anyway managed to get the belt back on and everything is lining up nicely, I've turned it over mire than a few times wirh my ratchet and everything sounds looks spot on but I'm still cacking my pants to start it up, don't want to brake anything. New alternator on, can somebody advise me on how to earth it correctly, look at my photo, is tgat right?

How to get tension in the power sterring belt, like this of course ;-)

Next installment, the continuing saga of the MX5 conversion, almost there with that, had to modify my brackets a bit but on the way to success now and new motors working correctly. Happy days Charlie ;-)

[CharlieCroker]

All belts now on, new alternator installed and engine back to purring like a kitten. So time to get back onto those headlight pods. My modified brackets are now inplace and perfectly aligned along with the extended mx5 rotating arm and I now have the pods opening and closing exactly where they need to be. Just need to wire them up, fingers crossed this time all goes well, this set of motors do work as they should directly off of the battery so I'm hoping my switch works, watch this space...

[CharlieCroker]

So I'm going to confuse you all even more now! Back to the wiring of these dammed mx5 motors. I can see where the confusion is now, I believe that the advice I have been given regarding colours is because the motor comes with a two fold loom, one off the main car loom and then with a plug to the motor and this is where the colours change. Look at the photo below very carefully.

The advice to date has been using the colours off the mx5 car main loom. The cut wires facing up are off of the motor loom itself, still with me? From what can see (and this is where it gets proper confusing)

Black = black

Red = Red

Green = Green

Yellow = White/red

White/red = brown

Such a head mash! If anyone has anymore advice it will be greatly appreciated.

[Barrykearley]

Tried mine using the colours attached to the motor.......

Go on - get em fitted..........

[CharlieCroker]

I've just had another go, still no joy, my head is properly spinning. Now before I go mad I have also tried them directly off of the battery this morning and they work correctly like this, using the wires directly from the motor I put white/red to live, then black to negative, then from piggy back to yellow or red and the motor works, 180 stop, 180 stop.

I then attempt to go from the relay and into the car with a permanently live piggy backed to white/red on 30, black to 86 piggy backed to earth. Old solenoid on 85, then red on 87a and yellow on 87.

So what's not working, am I going mad or have I wired this wrong again?

This is my motor in place ready to go, these are the colours I have at my disposal. If anyone wants to come around and help that would be greatly appreciated. All the best, Charlie :-)

[pbharcourt]

I would come over but i dont think your anywhere near Southampton!

Have you looked at the Lotus excel diagram as the motors look just like the excel toyota ones?

[CharlieCroker]

No, can you post a photo? I really have hit a brick wall with this install, all the hard work is done but absolutely no life at the motor. I've tried time after time and still no joy. I've checked all the wires, perm live, old solenoid, earth with a multimeter and they are live. However I tried to replicate a direct battery set up using my perm live and good earth then switching red to yellow and vice versa without a relay but the motor does not want to work. I don't want too but I may need to admit defeat and get an auto electrician in to help, I hate to be beaten though! On a brighter note I've just taken the old girl out for a spin (after changing belts) and she was pulling like a train, new cam belt in and no issues. New alternator in, don't know if that has helped cos' when running I still only get 11v on the dial nowhere near 13v.

[Barrykearley]

Have you had these motors working out of the car?

You should be able to do all the wiring with a relay etc out of the car and get it working in 5 mins.

That proves one thing...... That bit on its own works

Then onto your car -

What have you got that you are cobbling it into????

You need three wires. 12v perm ( I'd take from ignition somewhere ) , a gnd, and a pick up from the headlamp to pop up/down - should be simple

[CharlieCroker]

I've done all that but still no joy. I have to put these pods on hold for the time being, I've got a more important problem to solve, the alternator is not charging the battery, until I solve this the car ain't going anywhere. Electrical bliss! I must say I do have doubts regarding this loom, there's been so many 'quick fixes' I'm finding, it doesn't surprise me I'm having difficulty. I do appreciate all the advice but if things don't work as they are meant to then there's not much more I can do, it ain't for the want of trying let me tell you.

[dixi4uk]

Just a couple of thoughts,.

Is your ignition warning light working OK? This completes the charging circuit, something often overlooked when a voltmeter is fitted. Another thing that Soldave found was that a LED 501 replacement bulb interfered with the charging.

Of course you may have been supplied with a faulty alternator, it happens.