S1 Project car - part 2 - the continuation

[Fridge]

52 minutes ago, omegaman said:

Do they bend towards the screen because they are painted on one side and can't expand as much in the heat ? Would be interesting to paint the back and see if it stops it bending as much. 

They're not painted. They're solid white plastic.

They tend to bend towards the Perspex cover ie towards the driver. Fortunately mine are OK.

[Lotusfab]

Well ten years now of ownership. The S1 has never failed, so far. I decided its time to fix the sticky needles on the speedo and now the rpm. I am going to use the spacer method. Think the car is trying to tell me something though!

I did think of pulling the needles of and using resin on the rear to stiffen. Trouble is they are fixed very tightly. There is a tool for removal, but I am scared to try it!

[Paul Coleman]

19 hours ago, Lotusfab said:

Well ten years now of ownership. The S1 has never failed, so far. I decided its time to fix the sticky needles on the speedo and now the rpm. I am going to use the spacer method. Think the car is trying to tell me something though!

I did think of pulling the needles of and using resin on the rear to stiffen. Trouble is they are fixed very tightly. There is a tool for removal, but I am scared to try it!

I did my speedo last year and added spacers and the rpm needle is now sticking even with the spacers. I don't like the idea of modifying the needles in case the extra weight affects the readings.

[Lotusfab]

With the bend they have the spacers would have to be thick. I may pull them off with a tool. I was thinking of using polyester resin painted with a very small brush. Several layers only on the needle back. Don’t think this would add any significant weight. 

[EXCEL V8]

2 hours ago, Lotusfab said:

 I was thinking of using polyester resin painted with a very small brush

Might the polyester-based resins melt the needle?  Would epoxy be better?

Pete

[williamtherebel]

Mine were the same. (very common problem apparently)

I had a go at GENTLY heating them by using a hair dryer and being VERY careful! I protected the dial by some strategically place cardboard.

It worked a treat. Back to original. Nothing added! I did this in 2019 and its still working ok now.

[Lotusfab]

On 24/04/2023 at 10:25, EXCEL V8 said:

Might the polyester-based resins melt the needle?  Would epoxy be better?

Pete

Thanks good point! I am thinking of using rapid setting arraldite. Applied very carefully. 

[Lotusfab]

On 24/04/2023 at 14:34, williamtherebel said:

Mine were the same. (very common problem apparently)

I had a go at GENTLY heating them by using a hair dryer and being VERY careful! I protected the dial by some strategically place cardboard.

It worked a treat. Back to original. Nothing added! I did this in 2019 and its still working ok now.

Thanks. I did this about 10 years ago and they slowly bent outwards. I want a permanent solution with no additional spacing. I will try arraldite quick setting. Thats if I can get the needles off, straighten them with heat. Once I have done it I will try heating them again and try to get them to bend outwards.

I have started to take the car apart again! My 10 years of restoring has taught me a lot. I am finding some of the work I did needs redoing. I have better tools now and much better knowledge. I am taking the steering to pieces. I have stripped and soldered the ignition harness again and refined the Molex connectors. I was never really happy with this as my then soldering was not as good as it should be due to a poor quality iron. I now have a 400 degree one thats perfect. 
I am removing the steering column and replacing it with a new one. The lower universal joint has developed play, so that will be replaced as well. The rack was new and all the other bits replaced. I hadn’t been upside down under the dash for a while and was struck by how new it all looks. I have spent the last six years rebuilding the Turbo and perfecting it. The original body off S1 build was to a pretty high standard but I am going to take it all to the next level. By sorting all of the niggles unique to this car.  It always has a slight seal gap in the tailgate. I fixed this with a rubber D seal which I fixed over the top of the inner tube seal, which is pretty useless! The boot catch works perfectly. After all these years I also managed to sort the drivers door alignment. Issues were being caused by the shims that sit between the side brace and the bulkhead! Looking forward to driving it after the steering is rebuilt.

[Lotusfab]

Still looks pretty good after 10 years….

[Lotusfab]

Update

Will Andy (White Turbo) on here helping we found play in both the intermediate and lower UJs. The lowr UJ was new and only lasted 1500 miles! Steering column I rebuilt is better than the new one, so will refit it! 

Veglia managed to removed needle by twisting against the stop very carefully. Have now bent back the needle. Its seems to bend back out when re heated. So plan to roughen the rear, curve the needle inwards and put a bead of epoxy on it. I think spacing the glass is a temporary repair and I don’t want to do this again. It is possible to push the needles on a little further than they were. 
will report back in a few years as to how long the repair lasted! 
 

[Paul Coleman]

At the end of last summer my rev counter needle was sticking on the glass even with spacers but now it's gone back on its own. It's obviously very temperature dependent. 

Perhaps I should sell the car quick whilst it's okay!

Edited April 26, 2023 by Paul Coleman

[Fridge]

You should live upt'narth.

Problem solved 🙄

[Lotusfab]

Just remembered it was working fine until I spent a whole day on the hottest day of the year filming the Bond Vivant Lotus at the Top Gear Track. The extreme heat must have bent the needles.

[Lotusfab]

Ok so you can’t twist the speedo needle off as it has no stops. So here is my homemade removal tool. Use the two screws on the face to pivot off and the slight ridge on the needle edges. It was really easy to get off! Both are done and I have replaced one. Very thin layer of epoxy on the rear. I have fitted the needle  as close to the face as possible so it just clears the two screws. There is about a 3 mm clearance to the perspex. I think I will make it five with some 2 mm spacers on the perspex. I plan to never revisit this, as its a pain to remove the binaccle (although a lot easier than the Turbo).

[Fridge]

Those Veglia faceplates are so easily marked too. I may put in a transfer to Spitzbergen.

[obi-nu]

Really interesting, thanks for sharing how you've achieved it Fab.

Like others, I have the same problem with my rpm needle which I planned to attempt to solve using the spacer and/ or heat gun method (credit to Paul for enlightening me). However I'm just too damn scared of damaging, or worse, breaking the dial, though that method sounds like it may only solve it temporarily now anyway!

I think I'll just live with listening to the sound of the engine to gauge the rpm for the time being.. it's a good excuse to enjoy the engine noise and keep the wife quiet!😄 

Nu

[Fridge]

The problem with any restoration is that ultimately you're destroying something along the line somewhere. Original is always best, sometimes even if it's not working too well.

You have to ask yourself if it is better to leave alone, correct or repair enough whilst retaining it's original condition, or dive in with the risk you may take something away whilst adding some improvement elsewhere.

Whatever you do with these clusters, those needles and gauge facias are fragile and easily marked. I would be very reluctant to touch them unless absolutely necessary.

[Lotusfab]

Its a worry, but have to say easy with the two metal bits. Do be put of by what look like marks on the display. It needs a clean as there is residue from my fingers where I roughened the rear of the  needles and cleaned so the Epoxy would bond. The marks were already on the display, its 40 years old. The camera I use is excellent. To the naked eye the dials look very good. As I said before I don't wish to revisit the problem. My mantra now with these cars is to improve the design flaws so it is reliable and drivable. I will report back after a few years. At least there is a solution now. I plan to glue the spacers of 2 mm to the rear of the perspex. They will be invisible from the front. I have also strengthened the binnacle where the plywood has seen better days.
i am disappointed the new steering UJ only lasted 1500 miles!  

[Lotusfab]

We are facing a problem with these cars. After 10 years of constantly building and modifying I have some skill now in repairing them. The parts being supplied are sub standard an in some cases not even the same dimensions as the originals. An example of this is the gearbox cross shaft O seals. They are the wrong size so gearbox oil seeps out on the gear change cross shaft. I am minded to fix every defect. To this end Andy and me have replaced the O rings with X seals bonded into the gearbox with silicone. Leak fixed! X seals are far more effective at sealing a shaft than an O ring because there are two points of contact. 
Its a worry when the steering column I rebuilt 10 years ago is better than a brand new one. I have wasted hundreds if hours fitting substandard parts that I have had to remove. My Turbo was as good as one could be. My project here is to refine this car until its as good as it can be. I can’t justify an engine rebuild as it runs very sweetly, but when the time comes I will upgrade it with the best possible build. Its all about trouble free and enjoyable driving for me.

[Fridge]

Those fascias mark very easily and are not easy to find. The Perspex front is available new from SJ Sportcars.

And you don't need to tell me about cameras. They're my business.

How much steering have you done to knacker a new UJ??? It sounds like your problem is elsewhere, like with your door gaps which were not down to the rubbers but the shims it seems. The chaps at Killey-Clinton in Digbeth, Birmingham will be able to advise, they built the racks originally when they worked at Burman.

Checked the geometry?

[Lotusfab]

I will post some pics when I have rebuilt the Veglia. 

[Fridge]

You're right about some none OEM parts being substandard, but there has been no problems with my transaxel seals, and I have driven mine nearly 3,000 miles since rebuild. I think I obtained the parts from Voights.

[Lotusfab]

1 minute ago, Fridge said:

Those fascias mark very easily and are not easy to find. The Perspex front is available new from SJ Sportcars.

And you don't need to tell me about cameras. They're my business.

How much steering have you done to knacker a new UJ??? It sounds like your problem is elsewhere, like with your door gaps which were not down to the rubbers but the shims it seems. The chaps at Killey-Clinton in Digbeth, Birmingham will be able to advise, they built the racks originally when they worked at Burman.

Checked the geometry?

That is a new perspex from S and J. Its nothing like the original quality.well its was 10 years ago and has not had much use! 1500 miles have knackered the joint. I consider any play unacceptable, although it might be ok in some peoples minds. The geometry on this car is as good as it can be. If you look back through the blog you get an idea of how much time I put in. I have spent about 2000 hours building the Turbo as well. The new door seals are different dimensions and stiffer rubber , as I have proved back in the blog. They put much more strain on the catches than the originals, until they eventually deform to the door shape. 
the anti roll bar bushes on the Turbo are also totally wrong. They are too soft. Torquing the end nut to the manual spec results in a very wobbly steering wheel! They must be tightened to stop. I could go on but you get the idea.
 

1 minute ago, Fridge said:

You're right about some none OEM parts being substandard, but there has been no problems with my transaxel seals, and I have driven mine nearly 3,000 miles since rebuild. I think I obtained the parts from Voights.

I don’t use Voights having endured a very unprofessional experience with them.

[Lotusfab]

6 minutes ago, Fridge said:

You're right about some none OEM parts being substandard, but there has been no problems with my transaxel seals, and I have driven mine nearly 3,000 miles since rebuild. I think I obtained the parts from Voights.

Its not the transaxle seal in this case its the gear selector cross shaft. Andy and mine both new rebuilds leaked. The seals were wrong. 

The problem with these sorts of leaks is the drips appear somewhere else like the sump plug. They are difficult to locate. I would say anyone who has three pints of MT90 and new seals will have a leak at the gear selector cross shaft, but it will look like its the sump plug or something else as the oil runs t9 the lowest point.

[Fridge]

Voights did have a funny attitude when I called them. Business is business as we say in the trade, but like some other outfits they don't get that.

Still never had a problem with the gearbox seals. Though I didn't refurbish it. That might be my gain.

Again, my door seals are OK too, but I made sure they were banged in hard with a rubber mallet as per folk's advice who work in production. Perhaps yours were a bad batch? A few of us had problems with new SU fuel pumps failing with zero miles, just static tuning due to faulty manufacture (admitted by SU).