no spark,

[Ron Goldsmith]

hello 1988 stevens 2,2 turbo wont start, fitted new coil, still no any ideas, thanks

[mdw]

Either the ignition amplifier or  one of the 2 wires inside the dizzy fracture internally.  There are a lot of threads on here  about it.  SimonBBC on ebay does a new Chinese dizzy that deletes the amp. Can be a little tricky to fit  but a few of us have done it.  If you do get one don't bother fitting the dizzy cap that comes with it as its rubbish, get a lucus cap if you can find one.  New ht lead set?  Make sure you have the right coil  ( ballasted or non) I think your should be non BUT CHECK FIRST I MIGHT BE WRONG.  

 

You need a good battery for these ignition systems  AND A GOOD EARTH.  Check the earth strap is there ( around the r/h engine mount leg area).   

 

 

Check out the Not a good day thread by Brianc  which is 6-7 postings down in this stevens engine forum and its discussed there along with prices and even site links I think.

 

Your other option which I am fitting at the moment is mapped ignition however for the dizzy cost £60-70ish I would get it running on a new dizzy first and then look into mapped.

 

If it were me I would do dizzy, leads, plugs  and you have already done the coil so you know the whole system is good.  Lastly the odd person has had a dodgy ignition switch so don't discount that and beware of old immobilizers in the wiring system that don't work or have been badly fitted.

[Mike6]

Ron

 

Although you state no spark have you actually checked this rather than fueling problem. If you are not sure of age of components its always worth getting new plugs plug leads and then rotor arm and distributor cap. Not a fortune to do. If still no go then move on to pickup in distributor plus the lead that goes back into the AB14 (ignition amp) and in that area make sure all connections are tight 

[brianc]

Adding to the advice from Malcolm, my original issue was caused by the rotor arm being cracked. It wasn't helped but the fact that the dizzy was on it's way out (pickup leads going intermittent).

 

So I would start with puling the cap and taking a look at the rotor arm.  Mark the dizzy first for rotational angle against the clamp holding it as you will probably have to loosen it and turn it to get to the bottom cap clip.  This will ensure you get the timing right when you replace the cap and turn it back into position and re-tighten.  Also make sure that you keep it pressed towards the from of the car as you turn it since there is a small spring on the end of the shaft will can push the dizzy out of the locating slot on the shaft driving it and it's a bit of a pain to get back in.

[Mike6]

Personally the only way I found to get  reasonable access to the distributor is to remove the plenum cover which then requires a new gasket. So, it make sense just to renew all the components I mentioned earlier rather than fiddle around checking say just the rotor arm. The pick up inside the distributor does cost a bit but at least you dont have to go back to that area again.

[Roy Lewington]

Ok, I think you need to go back to basics rather than just renewing everything you can think of. It is not money wasted of course because you will have new parts, but even then it may not cure your problem. First check is to pull back the rubber boot on the big fat ht lead that goes into the centre of the coil. Makes sure the metal end is pushed down as far as it will go into the coil tower as this is a common non-starting problem. Not fixed? Buy, or make yourself, a remote starter. A push button switch connected to 2 leads with a crocodile clip on each. Remove the large spade connector on the starter motor (red/white I think) and connect one lead to this terminal on the starter. Connect the other lead to a 12volt feed---battery positive is fine, press the button and the starter will turn the engine over (ignition does not even need to be on). With this bit of kit you can now conduct all sorts of tests in the engine bay without any assistance. With your multi-meter set to dc volts turn on the ignition, you should have 12v at both sides of the coil. No 12v means an ignition switch or ign. feed problem. To prove this you can make up a jump lead and connect 12v direct to the positive side of the coil. Be careful, ignition coils can work even if the polarity is incorrect. Make sure that the wires from the + on the coil do not go to the distributor which would mean it is incorrectly wired. If you feed 12v direct to the wires that go to the distributor you can fry the electrics, so take care. So with 12v fed to the + on the coil you will have dashboard lights. Spin it over by pushing the button on your remote starter. If engine fires, you have an ignition key/ wiring problem. If it doesn't fire check for spark. Pull out the big fat ht lead from the centre of the coil (the one that looks like a spark plug lead) and tape in a length of insulated copper cable (mains household cable is fine) Bare cable at each end, tape one end into the coil tower. Ignition on, hold the other end 1/4 inch from the engine block, spin over with your remote starter. Good fat spark means problem is in main coil ht lead going to distributor or rotor arm. You can prove this by doing the same test with the original ht coil lead replaced into the coil tower. Make sure this is pushed fully home well down into the coil tower. Remove the ht lead at the distributor cap and hold 1/4 inch off block. Spin engine (ign. on) with ht lead 1/4 inch off block. Good fat spark here means rotor arm problem Spark with the copper cable but not with the ht lead---replace the ht lead. If you take out the spark plugs it will make the battery last longer and be easier on the starter motor, but you won't know if it sounds like it is going fire up. Still no spark with the copper cable? This means removing the distributor. With the distributor out leave all the electrics connected. Attach an earth lead to the distributor body and then by spinning the dizzy by hand (ign on)as you check and change things you can see if you have recovered your spark at the coil ht lead held just off the block. At this stage you are left with an ignition amplifier fault or an internal distributor fault. I have also known new ignition coils to be faulty (1 particular make comes to mind) so you could repeat some of these tests with your original coil. Probably enough to keep you busy here. I think the pick-up assembly is the same on most Lucas '45' distributors as fitted to Metros so a visit to the breakers may help, the ignition amp. you may find on early Range Rovers or Jags. Good luck, Roy.

[brianc]

A very comprehensive checklist Roy.

 

Worth making a sticky on the forum I would think as this is a very good methodology for general ignition faultfinding.

[Mike6]

That was a good write up Roy but my point was that renewing the items was sensible if you didnt know when they were last done. They are pretty much as cheap as chips so logical to start with these if you didnt have your knowhow. Personally I doubt it is the pick up as these tend to break down under load rather than prevent the car from initial start up.

The ign amplifier (AB14) is obsolete but you may find an autoelectrician to rebuild it, otherwise source a seconhand one from ebay - use the jaguar site as they were commonly fitted to a number of their older cars.

[mdw]

You can pick up the internals of the amp from amazon its a intermotor  product.   Or just stick a new dizzy on £70ish and forget the amp as its not needed on the dizzy a few of us have used.

[Mike6]

Hi Malcolm, The distributor is different on the turbo as it utilises both an advance and retard, so not sure whether the chinese one would be appropriate. .

[brianc]

You may be right Mike.  Thinking back, when I put the dizzy Malcolm is mentioning on my N/A, the guy at the suppliers said that he thought that the Turbo had 2 vacuum connections and therefore the dizzy would not be suitable.

[Mike6]

Yes, found that out when I was casting around for a secondhand dizzy for my turbo. The 45DM4 (from memory) is the turbo one with two vacuum connectors whereas the n/a one has just the single vacuum and is more widely found - on MGBs for instance. 

Its almost impossible to find the 45DM4 one

[Roy Lewington]

No spark. !2 replies offering help. Whilst this is probably valuable reading for members---------no reply.

'Good' and 'Manners' comes to mind.

[Oznog]

@Roy Lewington I appreciate the comprehensive debug procedure you provided. Very helpful! I haven't run through ti et, but planning to get back over to the shop tomorow. 

As I stated, I'm a noobie to Lotus so the learning curve is steep. I prefer to do all of my own maintenance, so learning about this engine is a priority for me.