Misfire Esprit SE

[8-ball]

Hi all, I'm after a little advice on this one.

My SE developed a misfire, well to be more accurate I lost two cylinders. Using the 'which bit of the manifold gets hot or not' technique, it looks like 2 and 3, they share a coil and injector driver so I,m glad it wasn't 1 and 2 etc.

I first looked at coils, but all was fine, all in good condition to look at and lots of power with a healthy spark from each. So injectors next, unplugged no2 and it's back on three out of four. We're getting somewhere now, so I measure the resistance across each injector. 1,3 and 4 give 2.8ohms but 2 only returns 1.5.

This looks enough to cause a drop to me so now the rub, does anyone have a spare that they could lend/sell so I could see if this cures it? Are five-O still the best source for matched sets, as if this cures it I may as well look into a new set.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Vanya]

I strongly STRONGLY advise against the Five-O injectors. I bought these after hearing they were the dog's bollocks, installed them, and had the car develop all sorts of weird issues. First there was a mild stutter on part throttle whereby the car would just not accelerate, going all out until the red line then completely cutting out just before - I figured maybe it had to do with the ECU learning after the install but it persisted and would happen at the most inopportune moments. 

Afterwards I couldn't pass my MOT because the car was overfuelling like crazy meaning I could only get good emissions on raised idle but not at 950 rpm. In the meantime I'd had my old Rochester originals refurbished and stored on the shelf. Put them back in, sailed through the MOT and had my reliable Esprit SE back. 

I know a lot of people have had good results with the Five O but I've also read people having similar experiences to me (overfuelling on idle etc, rich fuelling). I'd just get NOS or refurbished originals. They're just dandy for the SE in stock config. 

[Qavion]

I bought a set of injectors for my SE from WC Engineering. No problems with these.

http://www.wcengineering.com/esprit/fuelinj.html

I may have an old set, but the mail is pretty slow from Australia   Where are you based? Are you still in Warrington?

[8-ball]

Thanks for the info guys. So five-o's aren't recommended then, glad I found that out before ordering.

Qavion, WC sell the RC ones afaik, but I thought that they were of a higher flow rate than the Rochesters fitted as standard. Did you have any issues with fueling after fitting them?

I'm just outside Warrington, still not much closer to Austrailia though ?

[8-ball]

I've been looking into injectors and Rochester's are available on the other side of the Atlantic. Not very convenient but do-able.

 Travis has stated that he has used E5ZE's in the past and I can get a matched set of these fairly easily. The design is better than the Rochester's as they use the Bosch pintle pattern, so better volatilisation. I also found that this used to This used to be the injector type supplied by five-o.  I also noted that when looking into specs these are rated at 370cc/min but at only 2.6bar (they flowed nearer 390 - 395ish at 3bar when tested.) 

Travis how did this work out? Any issues with over fueling?

[8-ball]

Oh and final question, will Rochester 17104224  fit.  It comes up as a cross ref for the original, just thought I'd ask if anyone's used this type yet.

[Vulcan Grey]

The E5ZE are what I have been using since 2002, no problem.

Fiveomotorsport no longer has the E5ZE's and some people have reported problems with their current replacements.  The original injectors are rated at 2.0 +/- .1 Ohm at normal operating temp, and the RC and FiveO E5ZE and current BOSCH are all 2.5 Ohm injectors. 

The E5ZE was originalyl used on the 85.5-86 Ford Mustang 2.3L Turbo SVO engine.  So a cross for those should work as well as the E5ZE has for me.

look on Rockauto.com for a cross, but there are several there that look like remanufactured E5ZE, and there are a few other brands..

These look exactly like the E5ZE (these are remanufactured)
GB REMANUFACTURING 82211105 $34.99

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AUTOLINE 16153 $37.99

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I know you can order the BWD/NIEHOFF 57033, which is also a cross, from your local Autozone or Oreilly's auto parts store...

Haven't tried them yet

[Vulcan Grey]

47 minutes ago, 8-ball said:

I also noted that when looking into specs these are rated at 370cc/min but at only 2.6bar (they flowed nearer 390 - 395ish at 3bar when tested.) 

Travis how did this work out? Any issues with over fueling?

BTW, most cars of that era do run lower fuel pressure than the Lotus, since the Esprit GMP4 system use a 1:1 rising fuel pressure with boost.  So they are rated at 370 cc/min at about 42psi, and Lotus counted on them delivering more fuel than that with boost.

[8-ball]

Just re-read my post, made some sense but my grammar left a lot to be desired (bloody tiny phone screen, well that's my excuse and I'm sticking with it ? ).

Thanks for the reply Travis, mine's an '89 SE also so this option looks to be favourite at the moment.

[Qavion]

Quote

Did you have any issues with fueling after fitting them?

I can't say I noticed, Paul. I trusted in the ability of WC Engineering, and rightly or wrongly assumed that the ECU would adjust the mixture as required (???)

[8-ball]

Well it lives!

I managed to get a set of genuine 5EZE's from the states in the end, fitted them at the weekend and just completed a long shakedown run... Better than ever now ?

Thanks for all the help with this.

Edited February 15, 2016 by 8-ball

[Vulcan Grey]

Glad its working! Where did you get the E5ZEs?

[8-ball]

Rockauto in the end, they were fairly helpful answering questions etc.

I didn't mind a refurb part just so long as they were genuine ones (Bosch made pintle injectors) complete with the real part number so I could confirm flow rate etc.

All the alternative new (non Bosch) ones looked to be either ball or disc type rather than pintle and I never got a direct answer to this question, just that 'they'll work for your application' or 'they're an equivalent' etc.

The repro's are that cheap that we had a bit of discussion about ordering a set anyway and giving them a try just to see. I think the FJ20 part number was farmed out as the best alternative but I decided that the Bosch type was what I wanted. The FJ20 again looked like the disc or ball type, not pintle, but I have since seen some marketed as this part number with a pintle cap etc so it maybe luck of the draw which type you get. 

Edited February 16, 2016 by 8-ball

[Qavion]

Just found this video on the FerrariChat forum about Bosch fuel injectors:

Would anyone know if these type injectors are available for Esprits and if so, would the ECU have to be remapped to accommodate them? Or would the existing ECU simply adjust the fuel flow to get the right fuel ratio?

 

Thanks.

Cheers

Ian

(EDIT) Ooops... I just re-read Travis' comment about the ohmage of Bosch injectors. I guess these new ones wouldn't  be compatible.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Qavion

[Vulcan Grey]

The newer Bosch EV6 style fuel injector would be nice, but I haven't seen any low impedance versions at all.  I think @sailorbob  mentioned it might be possible to remove the injector driver  jumpers and use high impedance modern injectors, but I would imagine that the ECU would need to be re-programmed.