How far can you take the 907?

[CharlieCroker]

Been thinking of working with the 907 rather than an engine swap (although I've not ruled that idea out) and was wondering what I can do for not alot of money to improve it. I have to say the performance is good but Charlie being Charlie wants to 'tweak' the lump if possible. So how far or better still what bhp could you comfortably reach without blowing the bloody thing up?!

Edited March 25, 2016 by CharlieCroker
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[Choppa]

This is the Lotusbits "menu" which points to what can be achieved. The main launch point seems to be an upgrade to the Lotus 912 HC spec (180bhp) and from there it's up to you, the depth of your wallet and your spannering!

http://www.lotusbits.com/upgrades_engine.html

[mikeeech]

Personally I would put an ECU and coil packs on it. Once this is done a supercharger from an old merc or a mini might give better low end torque and would be an easy mod (easy since the engine doesn't have to come apart)

[Dunc]

Hmm, depends what you want from it...

I'm building a race engine for HSCC, which requires the capacity to stay under 2 litres, so I'm building a hot 2 litre, and my research and expenditure so far suggests the 907 has some inherrent issues that make it less robust than the 911 and 912 - to the point I am building a 2L crank and pistons into a 912 block.

For a road car, I really wouldn't bother spending money on it. I think you'd be cheaper dropping in a second hand 912 and enjoy the little smidgen of extra torque that the longer stroke brings.

You can make some power gains on a 2 litre 907, but none of them are what I would call cheap, and they add stresses to other weak points in the package. Exhaust manifold is a good start if you can pick one up cheaply. However, unless yours is an automatic, you've got to be careful with the gearbox.

The other concern I have is that unless your always going to run the rear end at standard ride height - (which I know you can) your not going to get that power down to the road. My V8 had been lowered very slightly, and I had no grip at all on the rear.

Given the nature of your car as an eye catching show custom car - I'd be tempted to give it the soundtrack it deserves and drop a rumbly V8 in it. I know you have talked about exotica like Maserati items, but I'd go the tried and trusted route..change the box as part of the transplant. You already know what my answer will be.... :-)

 

 

[CharlieCroker]

Good points, well made. You know I've been thinking of all manor of exotic and wonderful options but I still want the italian V8 should I go and swap the lump. There's currently one on ebay for £1500 but with what looks like broken sump or something. A rumbling V8 does indeed seem like the most obvious choice, but I don't do obvious. At one stage I even had the outrageous notion of nitrous oxide for a bit if a kick! But my head intervened and told me I wouldn't want to melt a hammer or two. Still searching for something different,  when it comes along I'll let you know. The story ain't over just yet...

[silverfrost]

Charlie,  Do not just get side tracked into V8s they sound fantastic yes, but you also have the option of some decent v6 engines, also do not rule out four pots, the can be real screamers the honda s2000 engine is fantastic, the gearbox on those cars is so strong i have known car breakers throw them in with the engine for free as the seem to never fail and just clutter up the yards.!  

The esprit is a pain to source for, due to its engine layout, the only other option i am considering in the future is the audi v10 engine, But with your layout the world is your oyster as so many cars have inline transmission rwd, the only thing you will have to fabricate would be mounts and a get a custom prop made at reco prop.   I would love to be in the postion of choosing an engine for an elite as its all gravy when it comes to choice. 

[CharlieCroker]

Believe me I've been looking into every possible option, and everything you've mentioned above has had its turn at the top of the list, s2000, alfa v6, maserati v6 or v8, chevy v8, even the lexus ls400 has been in with a shout, I even had visions of the v12 jaguar lump on ebay recently, but I'm just window shopping at the moment and not ready to pounce just yet. Rest assured what ever I plumb for will be a carfully considered choice based on time and money, not necessarily a judgement based on speed or performance more on feel good factors and making an fast n' loud entrance when rolling into a show. ?

[silverfrost]

Charlie with your car you already make an entrance chap    Look forward to the future when you finally choose one, I would not fit a jag V12 due to weight and size and low power, but hell i would love to see someone attempt it   I think the thing you will find hardest Charlie is not been able to use the car while it is been converted, you enjoy driving everywhere and getting about in it,  not the engine conversion itself

[Dunc]

It's not quite all gravy....

Whilst the engine bay is fairly accomodating for V8 - the chassis on the elite/eclat is not, so gearbox size and positioning is tricky.

Weight is another variable that you don't want to go off the scale on. Gearing is another potential headache. A jag V12 is far too long and too heavy - I believe its over 300kg or something.

I understand the desire to be different - but when you need parts or overhaul on a maserati engine, you will pay maserati prices.

Have you heard the noise some of those TVR's make with the rover? Addictive, and performance parts cost buttons.

[silverfrost]

Yes i know the phrase its all gravy is a bit skeptical  but it is not far off, why bother with the rover V8 which is heavy and cost lots to actually get the power out of them when so many factory made cars come with the engine and box complete as it left the factory, thats what i meant.  The s2000 would drop in, Most bmw complete units will drop in, mercs, etc the list goes on.  All will be modern engines with EFI  and most will have 6 speed boxes.  You save on the hassle of not messing about will adaptor plates for the lotus gearbox, the engines can use the factory ECU, you gain fuel injection, you gain a higher amount of cheap future spares as these cars are mass produced. You gain modern engineering and most of all as modern engines in most cases are classed as disposable items, you benefit from dependant on what engine you choose if it goes bang, a few hundred quid for a replacement and an afternoon putting it in and hey presto, it has saved you money,time etc rather than rebuilding your old engine at cost.   The extra 6th gear also makes the world of difference on the motorway ! 

Cost wise to me if one of my audi lumps kicks a leg out of bed, i can get a used replacement engine for 300 quid, now that is all gravy 

Having said that when i get round to buying my own elite it will get the 2.0 zetec engine fitted, not for noise or power but just to make it a nice modern daily driver running gear  

[Dunc]

I'm all in favour of swapping out the Lotus box with the engine conversion, but there isn't much room in the elite/eclat chassis for the new gearbox - Most gearboxes won't fit without cutting. The excel chassis was wider in this area to allow the use of the toyota box. To upgrade the earlier elite/eclat to the fairly normal sized Toyota W58 gearbox requires cutting of the chassis.

With larger multi cylinder engines - you definately want to raise the gearing. Even if you have a modern V8 that spins to 7000rpm, you don't want to be doing 3500rpm at 70. Something about 2250-2500rpm would be your target.

The Audi could be a good choice - I don't know of it being done, but its dimensions look favourable at first glance - also the Toyota Lexus V8 looks good - one of our members was fitting one up.

(NB the rover V8 isn't heavy - in fact it is remarkably light given its dimensions).

[CharlieCroker]

You do know that some of my options are simply california dreaming right? I see a v12 and my eyes go all of a haze, head turns to the sky and says 'imagine that in the elite!' In all honesty I know it would never really go in, but ain't gunna stop me dreaming. If someone had not already used the alfa v6 in his esprit I would have one sitting on the work bench months ago, you can pick them up for under £300. But I someone has already got there so that is not an option. A tvr rumbled pass me the other day and that gets you thinking, a low slung bonnet, possible easish fit. As I say just keeping an eye out and appreciate your comments and views, I'd totally agree with dunc that the chassis is tight at the gearbox so that is a major consideration. There's a rover v8 just up the road from me for £200 almost put a bid on it just for the sake of it. We'll see, options choices all sorts of headaches but should the lump change it will be loud, very loud, fast n' loud! 

[silverfrost]

The only drama with the Audi lump is they are all fwd or 4wd drive   i think another forum that Charlie goes on has plenty of info on the Lexus unit as it seems a good engine with lots of people fitting them, very good prices on secondhand units also, they look fairly compact for a v8 also 

[johnpwalsh]

4 wheel drive Elite, now that would be interesting. What about it Charlie. Is that a challenge or what.

[Dunc]

its been done...

lol

[rjwooll]

If you want to be extreme, what about a gas turbine?

[Don.Hasi]

If you want just the rumble in the engine bay, you have forgot the 5banger Audi. It gives you a noise, you will never forget but also here, the layout and handling of the car will change to the more worse… but the sound!! 

 

When thinking about an english fragile car with an Italian heart the term of “drama queen” appears quickly in my mind. There are so much potential failures ahead… I wonder how much miles it will see a year…

 

That said, the 912 engine is well balanced for the light weight and quick enough to chase most of the usual cars of today. The noise could be tuned up to whatever level you like. If someone would develop a big bore ss system for the Elites and Eclats like the one for the Excel…. Yumyum… this is my wet dream for Betty

[silverfrost]

Don,  the Audi 5 cylinder is a fantastic engine but sadly extremely hard to get hold of in the UK.  The only decent units are the aby and aan engines on the S2 and s6 models i.e the 20v turbo units giving fantastic reliable hp, the lesser units such as the 7A etc are just not worth the hassle of a cast iron block as the hp is poor.  

[CharlieCroker]

I nearly put a bid on a rover v8 last week but bottled out at the last minute. There's a ls400 with gearbox ancillaries and ecu going for the measly sum of £500 seems like a lot of engine for not a lot of dollar. Still want italian horses if I can find something, those alfa V6s are such a good deal but it's been done. There's was also a Chevy 350 recently at good money, all very tempting but it would mean me finding some sort of space in my garage, and you've all seen how small that is, could you swing a cat? 

[johnpwalsh]

Hi Charlie, here is an option for Panther MK11. Don't know if you have seen this one or not. Hope it copies for you.

 

<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2F1147009805351821%2Fvideos%2Fvb.1147009805351821%2F1154639217922213%2F%3Ftype%3D3&show_text=1&width=560" width="560" height="436" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true"></iframe>

[CharlieCroker]

Didn't work JP, what was it? 

[tests]

Hey Charlie, what holds you off a Lotus 9xx motor?

I would so go for a 9xx. You have like unlimited options: 907 tuning, 912 standard, 912 injection, 912 2.5l conversion, etc.

Or how about a 910 ?

 

EDIT: johnpwalsh: just click this link: https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2F1147009805351821%2Fvideos%2Fvb.1147009805351821%2F1154639217922213%2F%3Ftype%3D3&show_text=1&width=560

Edited April 23, 2016 by tests

[silverfrost]

That looks and sounds awesome, But just by looking at the spec it looks expensive 

[CharlieCroker]

You know I love a good chat about engines and all that but quite honestly I've just been out and around town and the rumble, splattering and shere thunder (in tunnels) of the 907 is hypnotic, why would I want to change it! I'm my own worst enemy at times, maybe the Panther should be left now untouched, saved for prosperity, into the annuals of history. Time for a new project? The sound is so disco it's unreal, a 70s timewarp, I suspect removing the center box, addind the cheerybombs and no air filter have all helped make a stupendous noise, it certainly has the entrance factor I've always wanted. Listen, when you're pulling hard on the boulevard the sound is mental, the looks are worth their weight in gold and the amount to supercar owners that hang back in fear of being overshadowed is priceless. For now and the foreseeable future I think the Panther will keep her pounding Lotus heart ;-) 

 

 

[Barrykearley]

And here endeth today lesson