Esprit Turbo project car - part3 - the further continuation

[Fridge]

Definitely seal the rear casing.

The advice to use the full 3L of lubricant will fill the rear casing, which I was told is the OD section. The sealant will stop anything dripping.

I was told it is technically speaking, an OD, rather than a 5th gear. Hence OD on the gear knob. It's certainly not like my old Laycock OD unit!

Edited June 10, 2019 by Fridge

[Andyww]

Its a conevntional gear and synchro just like all the other gears but you could define it as an overdrive as the ratio is pretty high.

I have not managed to overcome the problem of oil being pumped out the speedo drive. This happens as the box is being driven backwards, if anyone has fixed this I would be interested. There is no oil seal on the drive.

[Lotusfab]

I found Loctite 518, which I had ordered and forgot about. So plan to use that. I have lost two of the housing bolts! They are two different lengths. Getting this bit wrong is not an option as the bolts pass through the case. Two long and they will fouls the gears. So far ithis job has been pretty straight forward. I will need to address the issue of the speedo gear oil leak as I intend to use 3 L of Redline in this box. I will examine the fixture as I have it out. Silicon sealant?

[Fridge]

Maybe, but my transmission specialist says it is "technically an OD". He's the expert. That's all they do. Motorcycles, cars, vans, right up to dragsters!

[Andyww]

5 minutes ago, Fridge said:

Maybe, but my transmission specialist says it is "technically an OD". He's the expert. That's all they do. Motorcycles, cars, vans, right up to dragsters!

I would be interested to know his reasoning. In the box its just another gear, with an extra selector shaft, actuated by the same selector levers as the other shafts. Same type of synchro. 

Its no different to the 5th in any other 5 speed box.

[Fridge]

I would think so too Andy. As I'm used to separate OD units bolted onto 4-speed gearboxes.

He said this is essentially a secondary casement. Hence the OD marking on the gear knob being so marked.

Like I said, he's a transmission expert.

Unfortunately that work is done. The box seems to work, having had it on the road briefly last week. The transmission was completely rebuilt in early 2017. I'd have to make a special visit to see him. Though not far away.

It would be interesting to hear what Voigts or Harry Martins have to say.

[Lotusfab]

Ok the end housing bolts are M9 and the end case are M7. Anyone found a good supplier? 

[Andyww]

43 minutes ago, Fridge said:

Hence the OD marking on the gear knob being so marked.

 

The wooden gear knob with OD marked came I believe from the Elan S130/5. They continued it into the Esprit. Not sure exactly what gearbox that had. 

[910Esprit]

Top gear is 'overdriven' in so far as the output shafts turn more than 1 revolution for  each revolution of the input shaft in 5th (and  marginally  in 4th) - Most 'classic' gearboxes would traditioanlly have a direct 1:1 ratio top gear.  Of course, its not an overdrive in the same way that its an extra 2 speed gearbox strapped onto the back of a conventional gearbox like a Laycock unit.   

A good Bolt & Nut stockist or engineering supplier may well provide 7mm/9mm from stock.  

 

[Fridge]

Yup! I sold a NOS one for about £145 last year.

Thanks for the clarity @910Esprit sounds likely.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Fridge

[Lotusfab]

17 minutes ago, 910Esprit said:

Top gear is 'overdriven' in so far as the output shafts turn more than 1 revolution for  each revolution of the input shaft in 5th (and  marginally  in 4th) - Most 'classic' gearboxes would traditioanlly have a direct 1:1 ratio top gear.  Of course, its not an overdrive in the same way that its an extra 2 speed gearbox strapped onto the back of a conventional gearbox like a Laycock unit.   

A good Bolt & Nut stockist or engineering supplier may well provide 7mm/9mm from stock.  

 

I've had a good look, very limited sizes. Usual suspects very expensive.

[Lotusfab]

I will be refitting the selector forks. Before I took them out I marked the fork positions with engineering blue. I need to check they are correct. Has anyone got any Lotus synchro gauges? If not no probs I will improvise.

[Lotusfab]

Well I have test fitted the selectors. It took a lot of cleaning and polishing to get them to move perfectly. I've lost two of the locking grub bolts! No surprise there! I need to set the fork positions before any of it can be finalised and wire locked. I thought to my self I could get my local gearbox place to set the synchros as they would have gauges, but that would be cheating!  All pretty straight forward so far. I shall test all of the gear operation by rotating the shafts by hand. I also need so 9 mm bolts😩😩😩Would be much cheaper if I hadn't lost 10 percent if this car! I blame it on a tiny garage. You need a double or preferably triple fir this sort of resto. I glanced around and noticed the parts have gone down a lot, that has to be good news.  This isn't final fix, I'm triple checking everything before that. I have cleaned the corrosion on the selectors. Just wondering whether to coat or leave them as is?

[Andyww]

I usually have the opposite problem ie parts left over   Lost tools though, mostly down the black holes which are either sides of the fuel tanks.

[Fridge]

Ha ha yes @Andyww! I still have a small bag of bolts from a previous restoration done in 2007-8. Usually the way however, as fasteners specifically get replaced. As a consequence I never throw anything from a car out. Particularly parts removed. Unless easily replaceable. This goes for all rubber and trim, as remanufactured items are rarely as good or as accurate as the originals. Subsequently I have a sports bag of all old windscreen seals etc from the early 1990s.

I also sweep regularly, and keep all rubbish and dust in a bin bag. Then periodically carefully sifting through it before discarding so that I don't inadvertently throw out small items that aren't easily replaced. Currently I can't find the rear hatch electrical links to the loom as I've no doubt put them somewhere "safe". I know they'll be around somewhere, and fortunately they're not pressing. I'll soon be able to downscale the number of boxes left from this restoration and I'm sure they'll turn up.

As for car restorations done in a confined area I can readily identify. Though I set out to do my current restoration in the only spare garage available to me, I can't quite believe I've managed to do the whole thing in a single concrete garage. Using good weather and the driveway to do most of the larger tasks.  Particularly last summer's fine weather when I was able to tackle the doors and waistline trim in gorgeous weather. Though I know of others who have rebuilt Esprits in similarly confined spaces. It certainly makes you very efficient with space, and diligent in the removal, labelling and storage of parts. Both old and replacement. I can safely say that project management has been the biggest factor in my restoration.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BxLLPJDBNm_/?igshid=1r19u46zlu9h7

[Lotusfab]

Speedo drive

You can see there are two O ring positions.. the only this can leak oil if fitted correctly would seem to be through the shaft with the rectangular drive bit. I found an old thread where Harry Marten recommended sticky grease in there. I will try and dismantle it and use grease.

The gearbox job has so far been much easier than I thought. It's pretty simple to understand after a study of all the YouTube videos on Synchromesh gears. All the bearings are now new. This is the second rebuild. The CWP and bearings are also new which is good news as this is the expensive bit. I'm guessing a disintegration of the CWP is what took this car of the road about 17 years ago, judging by the gouges on the inner box. Should have this completed, tested and CWP and drives set up very soon. I have decided to replace the clutch plate. The old one still has wear left but whilst it's all out mightbas we'll renew it. I never could understand  how the circlip that fits in the primary shaft works. Now it's all out its very very simple to understand. I will put some picture on here to explain.

[Lotusfab]

 

[Andyww]

Yes no adjustment. I recall 5th also no adjustment on the fork.

Harry recommends using grease on the speedo drive to prevent the gear and shaft falling out when you are fitting it as there is nothing holding it into the nylon part until its fitted in place. But oil leaks there as there is no oil seal. I think this happens as the box is running backwards in the Esprit. It would be good if there were some way of fitting a seal on the shaft.

[drdoom]

For sealing difficult joints an aviation maintenance grease has been recommended which is impervious even to petrols of all sorts. I will attach a link to a supplier here in Canada.

Cheers

https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/cspages/ezturnlube.php

[Lotusfab]

That's interesting stuff. I wonder if it will perform like a grease?

[Lotusfab]

I have devised a method of setting the selector selector fork neutral position for the 1/2nd gear shaft without synchro gauges. I also have devised methods of setting the reverse selector fork neutral position and the 4 th gear end stop. They  involve some measuring and the purchasing of shim washers and Aluminium  bar off eBay. Will report back when it's all set up correctly.

[drdoom]

9 hours ago, Lotusfab said:

That's interesting stuff. I wonder if it will perform like a grease?

From what I recall reading on the automotive forum where it was described the stuff is remarkably tacky and tenacious. It was with those qualities, plus fuel insolubility, in mind that the grease was cited for use as a carburetor sealant for drippy auxiliary venturi joints, and perhaps against vacuum leaks past idle mixture screws on older Webers. I imagine goop of this sort might be purposed in aviation for fuel reserve valves, where valve lubrication is subordinate to leak management in a slow motion, occasional action. I do not presume it to be a stellar grease by normal standards.

[Lotusfab]

Gearbox rebuild

I've been reading this 4. In order to set reverse gear idler position in neutral. Could this be a typo? I'm not aware of a first gear idler? Might they have meant 1st intermediate gear and reverse idler gear? This would make sense. With the first intermediate gear being the one I labelled???

[Lotusfab]

[Lotusfab]

Andy W had a great idea for setting the fork position on the 1/2nd shaft. It came from a Ferrari manual. Put it in neutral, set the fork to the centre with the synchro sleeve. Then select first and second gear  measuring the synchro sleeve clearance on both sides adjusting the fork position till they are equal.