The Great Global Warming Swindle

[Tentenths]

Quick heads up for a 'must see' this evening...

"Provocative documentary that sets out to challenge the widely accepted view that man-made carbon dioxide emissions are responsible for global warming. With arguments from leading scientists, the film points to recent research that solar radiation may be a more plausible factor in climate change, and suggests that reducing carbon emissions may not only have little impact on the environment, but may also have unintentional repercussions for third world development"

With the (so-called) environmentalists' anti car/industry/everything case having received so much media coverage - to the extent that it's now in danger of being accepted as fact - good to see at least some exposure for one of the contrarian views. Should stimulate debate if nothing else.

James

[Jonathan]

It's not a wide known fact that the earth has been warming up since the last Ice age along with precession where the earth wobbles on it's rotational axis - iirc it's not far off it's furthest point within a thousand years or so.

After that the earth slants back and possibly back into another ice age, this is somewhat confirmed when you look at ice extractions from antartica etc.

There is no denying we're having an adverse affect on the environment so whilst I agree something has to be done to allow the globe to aclimatise with our induced changes, I totally disagree about the way it is being pushed by the greenies, whilst they have their hearts in the right place, a vast majority don't live in the real world. You throw quick fixes at them like nuclear power / bio fuel and they're off crying about that too....they'd have this massly over populated world slip back into the dark ages if they could.

Which brings me to Governments / greeny politicians which also, do not live in the real world - they all want us out of the cars and onot public transport which is total and utter rubbish when their efforts are much better spent trying to get the big hitters (USA, China etc) under control. They use it as an excuse to 'punish' us finacially and also dont introduce simply measures to practice what they preach....banning standard light bulbs ? Banning these TV's that sit on standby all day ? Making electric cars affordable (I'd love a Tesla but not at

[hasuSan]

Its AL GORE's wet dream!!

[esprit22]

Must admit I'll have a quick look at the program but tbh this is all getting too much now with the environment and all the arguing and crap, I just dont care a toss anymore.

Jon, you speak with un-forked tounge.

[esprit350]

best way to stop emmisions, congestion etc is stop breeding!! too many people on the planet, one child per couple planet wide and only if capable of fiancial support for 16 years.. political nightmare but it would work

[martynv]

best way to stop emmisions, congestion etc is stop breeding!! too many people on the planet, one child per couple planet wide and only if capable of fiancial support for 16 years.. political nightmare but it would work

I thought we were all blaming the cows for farting methane gas for global warming at the moment

Martyn

[MKE40]

I thought we were all blaming the cows for farting methane gas for global warming at the moment

Martyn

It wasnt so long ago that the nutters were predicting the demise of the planet through burning the Brazilian rain forests, must have got bored with that subject and moved onto cars. :crybaby:

Probably not long before they move off transport and advocate euthanasia for the over forties!

You never hear talk of an International Brigade to wage war on the Chinese industrialists on their home turf !

Mike

[arbell9]

That program was brilliant, just showed how corrupt the green agenda is.

It should be compulsary viewing ( at least 5 times) for all politicians and school children as a minimum.

I havent believed the CO2 theroy for a long time, its good now I know climate change is due to the Sun. Blindingly obvious, but at least I know it.

Top marks to channel 4.

hope the neo marxist agenda can be quashed now!!

[Kimbers]

Even if you are pro enviroment you really can't argue with people like the founder of Greenpeace, Ex members of IPCC and all of those guys on the program.

For years Fishy has been saying there's another agenda to it all and now I must admit, I believe him!

[Loteuk]

Attitudes to causes of global warming might change when that meteor lands.......... :crybaby:

[Kimbers]

Also puts it in perspective when you learn that 3 times the amount of money spent on 3rd world support goes on "researching and monitoring climate change....very sad!

[Tentenths]

Good to see leading scientists successfully challenging the normal green hysteria - and backing it up with well researched and compelling data.

As Alex says, ought to be compulsory viewing for today's schoolchildren, their teachers and parents... most of whom have already succumbed to the blatant lies/distortions of the environmentalist zealots.

A superb programme in every respect and a real credit to the producers and Channel 4.

James

[arbell9]

Good to see leading scientists successfully challenging the normal green hysteria - and backing it up with well researched and compelling data.

As Alex says, ought to be compulsory viewing for today's schoolchildren, their teachers and parents... most of whom have already succumbed to the blatant lies/distortions of the environmentalist zealots.

A superb programme in every respect and a real credit to the producers and Channel 4.

James

As a scientist myself working in an emotive area of research I know first hand how debates get hijacked and men in white coats get turned into villans on a par with war criminals. It was good to see the experts given the airtime to explain in straight forward terms the buncum that the green brigade pushes.

[BusaNostra]

Good to see leading scientists successfully challenging the normal green hysteria - and backing it up with well researched and compelling data.

As Alex says, ought to be compulsory viewing for today's schoolchildren, their teachers and parents... most of whom have already succumbed to the blatant lies/distortions of the environmentalist zealots.

A superb programme in every respect and a real credit to the producers and Channel 4.

James

25 years ago, treehuggers said ice age is coming...what da czhit happened to that?

been waiting for that apocalypse.

first thing first.

[CarlC]

This was a great, thought provoking program that offered the opposing view to the barrage of global warming warnings !

Now feeling alot less guilty about having a heavy right foot.

[molemot]

I liked the comparison that was made between the earth and your car. It's like if your car goes wrong, you don't take any notice of the engine (equivalent to the sun ) or the transmission (equivalent to the water vapour in the atmosphere) but concentrate on one of the wheel nuts on the back right hand wheel ( equivalent to the human induced production of CO2!!) Also interesting was the fact that, although global warming and CO2 levels are related, it's the warming (produced by solar activity) which, 800 years later(!) produces increased levels of atmospheric CO2...and not the CO2 which produces global warming.

What we have here, my friends, is a Moral Panic. Media induced and leapt upon as a bandwaggon by thousands and thousands of people with their own agendas. I have never believed the Greenies piffle, and it was nice to see the actual facts portrayed by proper scientists taking a true scientific attitude, and not starting with a conclusion and then trying to justify it by distorting reality. I just knew Mrs. Thatcher would be in there somewhere....!!

[CNH]

Which brings me to Governments / greeny politicians which also, do not live in the real world - they all want us out of the cars and onot public transport which is total and utter rubbish when their efforts are much better spent trying to get the big hitters (USA, China etc) under control.

At least the USA tells it like it is and will not sign on to Kyoto or we could just sign up and proceed as business as usual like the other countries.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/28/news/inter...rtune/index.htm

[Jonathan]

My point was to succesfully tackle any possible climate change you have to focus everything on the big poluters (USA, Brazil, China, India).

Cracks me up when the British Govnt. try to get us, the public, to set an example....rofl....like anyone listens to the UK anymore !

I actually sympathise with the USA's stance on it anyways becuase they're the ones injecting money into new technlogies, not this country - whilst the stuff is also developed here we haven't the sense to invest in it unlike the USA. Who's championing the Greenest place in the world atm - California.

I also lived for 4 months in Northern LA where we had an extensive and fully functional re-cycling plan LONG before we had one in the UK.

Dunno about anyone else but we've only just got recycling bins etc and America have been doing it on a residential level for ages. Our recycling plants are totally mis-managed and you have to take it there yourself - so thats 100,000 cars all going to one place to throw rubbish onot a heap becuase no-one empties it......in the states they have 50 trucks to take their place becuase it's managed propperly.

As you say "business as usual", I'm under no impression in the UK we're 'leading the way' in fact we've missed every single target going !

I'm not cynical though...

[islandbloke]

Cracks me up when the British Govnt. try to get us, the public, to set an example....rofl....like anyone listens to the UK anymore !

Imagine how I feel on the Isle of Man then! I must do at least one global warming interview a week for our radio station - often more - and have had a gut feeling all along that it's all a nonsense. Especially when they say "yes, but we should lead by example"!!

I posted on our local web forum (manxforums.com) that it was a great programme, but I and the programme have been ridiculed ever since by the green brigade.

If only they'd listen to me, I could put them right about 9/11, Kennedy and Marilyn too...pffft.

[gghc87]

Good program, well put together and argued.

Hope we see a few more of these from all sides of the argument so we, the public, can take an informed reasoned view on all this, instead of the one sided trendy diatribe we are fed these days.

[CNH]

Jonathan,

I live in the upper Midwest and we for the most part like plain talk and being straight forward. After all why agree to something and not be able to follow through or just when the circumstances are convenient. I don't think anyone I know is against pollution control but there has to be a balance. The majority of the food produced in the USA comes from the Midwest area so we are aware of the need for a clean environment. My state is also the head waters of the largest river system in the USA and in the northern areas the water is still clean enough to drink straight from the river.

I think most here would support and join an international agreement if it was realistic. Most of us here care and do pay attention to what the UK thinks. We consider the UK trustworthy compared to some of the others in the EU that routinely cheat and back stab on every past agreement no matter whom the agreement might involve, why would Kyoto be any different? For the most part we regard the people of the UK as some of the most patient people in the world, A few people here do think the UK subjects too are passive and are being screwed over by everyone including their own government.

There are some things you should know about recycling here as there is economic reason behind it. In my town if you do not recycle the trash collection fees are increased. We do have separate recycle bins the same size (different color) as the trash bins we use. A different recycling collection truck run in tandem to the trash collectors using side mounted robotic arms to empty the bins. So trash collection charges are only $30 a month with recycling. The trash collectors get to keep the money from recycling and then they use it to offset a portion of the trash collection fees. We have 2 companies to choose for trash removal and the competitive nature of 2 trash collection services keeps the prices lows. So besides helping the environment there are benefits for residential homes to recycle. I suppose if one wanted to recycle on their own and earn extra cash they could haul it to a recycle center for cash. Several schools and churches also will take recycle materials for fund raising purposes.

As far as fossil fuels, we are starting to have a problem where I live. I don't know if you people know how our hwy systems works but our fuel taxes are used exclusively for road/transportation maintenance and improvements in my state. But as a leading producer of ethanol (flex85 or F85) for the USA (corn based) and record high prices of gasoline we have experienced in the past year sometimes reaching as high a $2.80-$3.00 per gallon many have opted to use fuel efficient cars for daily driving. Don't get me wrong we have not discarded our trucks/SUV's/large cars, only that many have opted to use fuel efficient cars for their primary daily commuting if only carrying one person. This has led to overall fuel use reductions. The transportation dept derives its funding from the fuel tax per gal of gas sold and has experienced a shortfall in the budget forecast as a result of being fuel thrifty and enviro-friendly. So as the population/cars increases with the needed expansion and upkeep of our roadways the use of fuel per capita has dropped over the years. I hope our roads maintenance and improvements will not suffer as a result. They are already talking of raising the fuel taxes up from the $.42 per gal that was approved in 2000. If the increases in gas taxes takes the gas price past the $3 mark on a regular basis there will be trouble in this state. If that happens the greens/liberals/democrats will take a political hit as the US auto industry is not in real good shape as the truck and SUV sales are down due to high fuel costs.

Its all about business in the USA, there has to be an incentive/payback to the citizens that offset the expense of being enviro-friendly to make things work. It is lot harder to talk pollution control when the breadwinner of the family is out of work or the when the family is taking a financial hit or lifestyle change.

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6438727.stm

"Never let the facts get in the way of a good prejudice!"

For years I have argued that there is too little evidence based opinion forming in the world.

They decide what they want to hear and then go and pay the researchers who will give them the 'evidence' they WANT.

I had a big row with a matebout this the other day. Glad there's now an hour and a half's worht fo documentary to prove me right! He said I was a cynic! I said I was simply in touch with the realities of politics!

That fact about the amount of aid to the 3rd world vs research I am SO going to beat them with that one!

"Instead of 'wasting' money on trident we should be spending it on the environemtn / public transport / education"

Well instead of wasting money making up a non existent issue we should be spending it on feeding the starving!

Kimbers.... Say that bit about me being "right all along" again... GO on... You know you want to!!!

[Jonathan]

"Top tips are look ahead, plan ahead further, avoid heavy braking, don't over-rev the engine, change to a higher gear as soon as you can, keep your tyres as the correct pressure, and look at the junk and clutter you may have in your boot, or on the roof."

Drive a Lotus ?

I was easily getting 40mpg out of the Elise, the Esprit aint bad either.

Light weight, remove all the un-necessary stuff...efficiency, aerodynamics....where have we heard that before ?

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites...rguments_1.html

Greenhouse gases trap heat from the sun within the earth's atmosphere. This is the greenhouse effect. Traditional models predict that increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases lead to runaway heating.

If greenhouse warming were happening, then scientists predict that the troposphere (the layer of the earth's atmosphere roughly 10-15km above us) should heat up faster than the surface of the planet, but data collected from satellites and weather balloons doesn't seem to support this

Those who think global warming is a natural process say that the troposphere is not heating up because man-made greenhouse gases are not causing the planet to heat up.

For some people, the final nail in the coffin of human-produced greenhouse gas theories is the fact that carbon dioxide is produced in far larger quantities by many natural means: human emissions are miniscule in comparison. Volcanic emissions and carbon dioxide from animals, bacteria, decaying vegetation and the ocean outweigh our own production several times over.

Others would argue that carbon dioxide isn't the only greenhouse gas and that human emissions could tip up a finely balanced system.

New evidence shows that that as the radiation coming from the sun varies (and sun-spot activity is one way of monitoring this) the earth seems to heat up or cool down. Solar activity very precisely matches the plot of temperature change over the last 100 years. It correlates well with the anomalous post-war temperature dip, when global carbon dioxide levels were rising.

In fact, what is known of solar activity over the last several hundred years correlates very well with temperature. This is what some scientists are beginning to believe causes climate change. Others feel that solar activity only explains the fine details of temperature change.

[islandbloke]

Calvin. great post. But "They are already talking of raising the fuel taxes up from the $.42 per gal that was approved in 2000. If the increases in gas taxes takes the gas price past the $3 mark on a regular basis there will be trouble in this state. If that happens the greens/liberals/democrats will take a political hit as the US auto industry is not in real good shape as the truck and SUV sales are down due to high fuel costs".

Really? 'Gas' is around $10 a gallon here and in much of Europe...and our road/fuel taxes DON'T pay for the upkeep of our roads - they support every bloody thing that's underfunded.