The Great Global Warming Swindle

[arbell9]

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites...rguments_1.html

If you browse through the C4 website, the myths that the program debunked are continually perpetuated in sound-bite writings. On the forum there is one bloke citing refs and theories and data that supports the facist green welly brigade. Today I dont think the term facist to describe these green hippies and the politicians who follow them is NOT too strong. You are either with them or not, and if not everything you enjoy in life must be moderated or removed.

look at this from the C4 site....http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/G/global_warming/

"Global warming is arguably the most pressing issue we face today. For the first time in our history the whole human species is under threat from the alarmingly powerful forces of climate change. Will we be able to make the changes needed to save future generations from the ruinous chaos of a shifting climate?

Sir Nicholas Stern's report, issued on 30 October, is perhaps the last 'wake up' call to the UK and the world to get its act together on tackling global warming. A former chief economist of the World Bank, Sir Nicholas warns that inaction could lead to a 20 per cent shrinking of the global economy and some 200 million people could become refugees through the impact of drought and flood on their homes. He said 'The disaster is not set to happen in some science fiction future many years ahead, but in our lifetime'. Below, we examine some of the key issues that have to be tackled in order to prevent this disaster."

At some point somewhere in a modern westernised country this is will eventually cause neighbours to turn on each other and there will be big political casualties. that program lasted an hour and a half. How are arguments against the GHB (green hippy brigade) going to get other air time or newspaper columns when the majority of the media focuses on a sound bite. The more hysterical the bite the better.

The right of the 3rd world to develop and the rights of the people in the west being suppressed by Green lobby could cause the next major war in the world.

How to change it, well politicans at the moment see being "green" a vote winner and so wont go against the tide of inept public opinion.

Any ideas fishy on how to effect change?

Edited March 11, 2007 by Alex --GT3--

[Jonathan]

I'd like to see an open forum on that subject - I saw an 'Animal rights' thing not all that long ago where experts calmly discussed it and presented FACTS instead of theoreys and ummm-arrrrs.

I'd like to see this on Global Warming as well.

I think people on a whole are unable to make decisions based on no history anyways - even when we do we forget really quickly (1st and Second world war anyone ?). I think it'll stay much the same and people will either say 'we told you so' or 'perhaps we were wrong' sometime later.

More I read about it the less I care tbh - the arguments fore and against you're never really going to discern the truth.

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

I'm the same Jon - I'm not 'concerned' about the supposed problem at all any more because of the lunatics running the issue and the so called solutions.

Where I used to have an interest in the issue, now I'm past caring...

What still annoys me are the lunatics themselves and their so called solutions!

...As these will be foisted upon us all no matter what - Like I've always been saying about zealots (taking a very extreme example here I know...) but an extreme zealot would indeed kill you if it saved your soul!

(If you see where I'm actually going with that?!)

Alex - I completely agree - I have long compared these Hippies to fascists... They are simply hippy-fascists!

Miliband declared the debate on global werming as over and won, back before christmas.

I could be very wrong but iirc the Stern report ACTUALLY focussed on the *potential* economic consequences of global warming and congestion, when taken at their worst and most extreme projections...

(You've all seen my posting and defining the Elvis Statistic!)

...It did NOT however (as I say - IIRC) actually offer any NEW, independent research into the actual cause(s) of it. The guy's an economist NOT a eco-enviro-geologist. There must be very VERY few of those guys around at the moment who are non believers or who are GENUINELY open minded on the issue enough yet knowledgable enough to produce a report I would trust or believe. (I wouldn't trust a report from Shell (for example) either!)

How many "experts" with the same level of respect and credibility projected the hundreds of thousands of us suffering from CJD? Or dying from bird flu!? Or dying as "planes might fall out of the sky" from the Millenium Bug?!

Give people money and they'll say anything you bloody like!

Eco-whatevers know that all the money is in being green at the moment NOT in questioning it.

One of the leaders (was it an Eastern European nation?) in just the last week said publicly that he didn't believe in Global Warming as an issue at all! (He was, of course, suitably 'pariahed')

The ONLY question that remains for me is why has Dubya now come out in favour of it all? Why would he change his view as ALL financial pressure on him is to the contrary...

[Jonathan]

Anyone read the novel Rainbox Six ?

If not look it on wiki..

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

...and just as a totally bizarre, random tangent to break the heavy atmosphere for a second, I'm going to resurrect an old internet gag that did the rounds a few years back!

"There's going to be an extra scene included in the DVD release of EMPIRE

STRIKES BACK coming up next year! Basically, it expands on the scene where

Vader reveals his fatherhood to Luke, and ties up some loose ends created

with the release of Episode 1, 2 & 3...

The Empire Strikes Back: Extra-Special Edition

INT: BESPIN GANTRY - MOMENTS LATER:

A furious lightsaber duel is underway. DARTH VADER is backing LUKE SKYWALKER

towards the end of the gantry. A quick move by Vader, chops off Luke's hand!

It goes spinning off into the ventilation shaft. Luke backs away. He looks

around, but realizes there's nowhere to go but straight down.

Darth Vader: Obi Wan never told you what happened to your father.

Luke: He told me enough! He told me you killed him!

Darth Vader: No... I am your father!

Luke: No, it's not true! It's impossible.

Darth Vader: Search your feelings... you know it to be true.

Luke: NO!

Darth Vader: Yes, it is true, and you know what else? You know that brass

droid of yours?

Luke: Threepio?

Darth Vader: Yes... Threepio... I built him... when I was 7 years old...

Luke: No...!

Darth Vader: Seven years old! And what have you done? Look at yourself, no

hand, no job, and couldn't even levitate your own ship out of the swamp.

Luke: I destroyed your precious Death Star!

Darth Vader: When you were 20! When I was 10, I single-handedly destroyed a

Trade Federation Droid Control ship!

Luke: Well, it's not my fault...

Darth Vader: Oh, here we go... "Poor me... my father never gave me what I

wanted for my birthday... boo hoo, my daddy's the Dark Lord of the

Sith...waahhh wahhh!"

Luke: Shut up...

Darth Vader: You're a slacker! By the time I was your age, I had

exterminated the Jedi knights!

Luke: I used to race my T-16 through Beggar's Canyon.

Darth Vader: Oh, for the love of the Emperor... 10 years old, winner of the

Boonta Eve Open... Only human to ever fly a Pod Racer... right here, baby!

{Luke looks down the shaft. Takes a step towards it.}

Darth Vader: I was wrong... You're not my kid... I don't know whose son you

are, but you sure ain't mine...

{Luke takes a step off the platform, hesitates, then plunges down the

shaft.}

{Darth Vader looks down, after him.}

Darth Vader: Get a haircut!

[arbell9]

[BusaNostra]

Been reading your Global Warming Swindle quite sometimes. Surprised all your rebutal

are conservatives agenda. If this post originated in the US, guarrantee you will be swarmed by Al Gore's disciples.

U.S. polluted the environment for centuries, used up every kind of natural resources...then point

fingers on China & India.....ha!ha!ha!ha!

Yes sir! No one are allowed to progress....except (we), stupid!

My beloved USA run by a bunch of tree spikers.

Huggers wants you dead. One tree u cut, one coffin 4 u.

Left millions of spikes in the tree trunks

like millions of land mines left by the communist in Laos.

Haven't heard the huggers since IBM Mainframe replaced by Mr. Gates.

Our forest grown like Don Kings Afro hair. From N to S, E to W nothing but trees.

Paper business are closing. Toilet papers? nothing to worry we can supply the world for 200 yrs..

Huggers no longer interested with trees.

Time to fabricate another apocalypse.

Yes! they go Global, speak spanish? Si, El Nino senor!

[MKE40]

Been reading your Global Warming Swindle quite sometimes. Surprised all your rebutal

are conservatives agenda. If this post originated in the US, guarrantee you will be swarmed by Al Gore's disciples.

U.S. polluted the environment for centuries, used up every kind of natural resources...then point

fingers on China & India.....ha!ha!ha!ha!

Yes sir! No one are allowed to progress....except (we), stupid!

My beloved USA run by a bunch of tree spikers.

Huggers wants you dead. One tree u cut, one coffin 4 u.

Left millions of spikes in the tree trunks

like millions of land mines left by the communist in Laos.

Haven't heard the huggers since IBM Mainframe replaced by Mr. Gates.

Our forest grown like Don Kings Afro hair. From N to S, E to W nothing but trees.

Paper business are closing. Toilet papers? nothing to worry we can supply the world for 200 yrs..

Huggers no longer interested with trees.

Time to fabricate another apocalypse.

Yes! they go Global, speak spanish? Si, El Nino senor!

YOUR name would not be Teigan .....by any chance ?

Mike

[BusaNostra]

YOUR name would not be Teigan .....by any chance ?

Mike

hahahaha no, no, no not Teigan

[CNH]

Now just how is the UK going to do this?

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wo...1&cset=true

"But we need to take action now, we need to take it collectively, and for the richer nations to support the poorer ones."

What exactly does Blair mean by this quote? By richer nations does he mean richer nations as in the UK or is he possibly also refering to the USA?

[CNH]

Also does he expect the ordinary citizens to pay for it?

Edited March 14, 2007 by CNH

[dodgy]

the richer nations means ---> we will try to set the trend by making the general public pay for it all will more stealth taxes

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

There's no stealth about it!

...and ffs it's not about the money for them - you only have to listen to Miliband on the subject to realise that in another time and another place (and neither would have been that far away!) that he would have been living up a tree, with dredds, covered in mud and a name like Swampy!

He's a die hard, evangelical green who actually *believes* all this botox...

We (as in the affluent west) have economically evolved quite nicely and now we're telling all the developing nations NOT to do what we've done - Yeah - RIGHT!

Brazil, India and China are all starting to see the potential light at the end of the tunnel and there is NO WAY they will do *anything* that reduces their rate of development - and they have all pretty much said so - some more explicitly than others.

The greens wanted us to miraculously magic up an 80% cut in emissions WHERE THE FLOCK did they think ANY society would find that level of reduction?!?!

What they also forget to consider is that Britain is already one of the BEST countries in the entire world for all this and has reduced more than almost any other country already! So all further percantage cuts measured at today's levels are exponentially swingeing and unrealistic!

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

'kin 'ippies

[gghc87]

Its not just the planet that seems to be warming up.....

See here

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/s...icle1517515.ece

Edited March 15, 2007 by gghc87

[Jonathan]

LOL - recovering from a bruised back atm when I was watching the 1 o'clock news after falling off my chair twice.

The Germans have been asked by the EU to ditch their un-restricted autobahns because of Climate Change - pmsl, does it ever end ?

What cracked me up more is the spokes Lady (very nice too), for what looks like the German equivalent to the AA, saying driving slower would be a 'Danger' to motorists not concentrating enough aaahahahhaha - I love the German sense of humor !

I personally think we should all go back to horse and cart, but use a synthetic horses cus the real ones breathe out carbon dioxide and fart quite a bit.

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

[dodgy]

Where Channel 4 got it wrong over climate change

Claim: Ice core data shows that carbon dioxide levels rise after temperatures go up, not before

Fact: This is correct, but climate scientists have a good explanation. There is a substantial feedback effect

Edited March 15, 2007 by Dodgy

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who read it that way!

Especially the second one!

[Jonathan]

[wiseraven]

The documentary was obviously wrong...

Clicky

At least, it's the most convincing argument so far.

Edited March 19, 2007 by NoneShallPass

[Vulcan Grey]

I actually was going to post this weeks ago, just before the report on the "human caused" global warming report...

But I have some friends that work at the Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics here in Boulder Colorado. One of the things that i easily found was this.

http://cc.oulu.fi/~usoskin/personal/nature02995.pdf

My friend and roomate actually flies this Satellite, Solar Radiation and Climate Experiment (SORCE).

The report above talks about the current activity of the sun (last 70 years) being much more active than any similar period in the last 8000some years. And the period of activity has lasted longer than any similar period in the last 11,400 years...

In fact the sun is supposed to be approaching solar minimum, this year! But in the last several months scientists have seen extraordinary activity in the form of mass ejections and even huge tsunamis that circled the sun in minutes (1,000,000kph).

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap061213.html

This tsunami was directly responsible for aurora on earth.

One report I read estimated that the output of the sun has accounted for several orders of magnitude greater effect on earth's temperature than man made gasses. Greenhouse gasses have only changed ~20% (or 40parts per billion) since the start of the industrial revolution...

Of course I'm not saying it wouldn't be good to lower our output of these gasses, and decrease our use of fossil fuels, but lets not go insane about.

There are people dumping iron into the oceans tring to grow plankton, and others are talking about spewing sulfates into the atmosphere to cool the planet... That kind of thinking has to stop. You can't counter a global change with another drastic (manmade) change...

[tonyp]

Letter in the 'Telegraph' (a UK newspaper) yesterday about the Carteret Islands, you know, the ones made famous in Al Gore's film for sinking under thhe waves. Apparently they have a quaint local custom of fishing the surrounding reefs with dynamite. No reefs, No protection from waves ....

[Kimbers]

Snow in New Zealand! Apparantly the insane green tree huggers say the climates warming up. The Governments agree with them so they can put taxes up and use it as an excuse and the Oil companies love them both as it pushes up fuel prices.

So the snow you have is obviously cause the climate is rising......hmmm little bit suss there. We've just had the coldest and wettest june for 50 years with average temps of 12-16 degrees....but thats obvuisly because it's warmer as well.......:nono:

Maybe we all need to put some more Co2 into the atmosphere to stop this cold weather and rain!!

I don't know whether you read about it, or watched it but Channel 4 made a programme called "The Global Warming Myth" where they had loads of Climatologists/scientists etc on dissproving the global warming theory.

They proved using historical records that the heat of the earth is directly changed by distance to the Sun and the effects of Sunspots. For example, 200 years ago (even as short a while ago as 100 years) they were Ice skating on the Thames. Whereas in Roman times they grew good wines in the North of the country. Medieval times were much colder and then it heated up again 3-400 years ago and was hotter than now even in the late 1700's early 1800's.

So what happened after the programme aired? 230 complaints, instantly backed by the government that it was "Biased" in favour of the Anti Global warming group. And yet they never tell you they may be wrong when they do "You're all gonna die, so we're raising taxes" programmes do they!. Straight away the professionals interviewed became pariah's and some have rescinded their comments due to "Pressures in work and personal life".

Do the words Cover up mean anything to anyone?

What wasn't commented on after the court case was even more telling. Despite being found guilty of being biased they found them innocent of many other charges brought by the government....not one announced in the press the hearing found "The theories and proof to be compelling and based on sound scientific work". They found the scientists and experts to be "correctly represented" (meaning they were experts) and found that there was "Absolutely no reason to suspect any alterior motive in the making of the programme". Lastly they stated that the level of complaints from the public "did not demand the governments level of response"......which means that the Government were trying to discredit the makers and professionals and keep the publics head firmly in the sand.

I hope that next time the Government put tax up on cars they say "We're raising taxes on high polluting cars because we THINK it MAY effect global warming THEORY. Of course it may be due to sunspot activity and our closeness to the sun at this time and we may just be stitching you all up."

Now THATS being unbiased.

Edited July 28, 2008 by Tentenths
Just tidying!!

[JPL76]

Kimbers. It's only 'Global Warming' till we have a sh*t summer. Then it's 'Climate Change'.

Totally agree with you, its just a convenient vehicle for raising tax and to a degree let them slip in social engineering. All these sheep that go along with it have my utter contempt.

[rogerch]

The one thing we do know is that we don't know. We don't have all the answers, and even if we did people would still disagree on their interpretation.

It does however seem probable that if we continue with our current consumer driven life styles we will run out of resources, ultimatley including food, so we can continue to p!!@ into the wind or become a more contentious society, just on the off chance we might leave a better legacy for our children.

Personally I think we're doomed, we would need such consensus world wide that it will never be achieved, the human race will be consigned to history just like the dinosaurs.

Roger