The Subaru tranny in a Lotus idea

[v8GTmac1]

15 hours ago, nicholden said:

Hi Mate, did you ever progress further with the Subaru gearbox? 
Nick 

honestly it was gonan be very feasible

 

I made a steel bushing to to insert over the subby input shaft to slide right into the Lotus spigot bearing just for the initial mock up of the adapter plate. 

I purchased a 18" machinest ruler to measure the dowel pins

scored some 18" square sheets of plastic from local machine shop's dumpster

the length of the 5spd subby trans ends up at 1.25" longer then Lotus. The 6 speed would need a little notching. 

the axles are close enough and was require custom splined shafts to merge the 2 different cv joints. 

I had planned on using a OEM subby flywheel, it has 8 evenly spaced hole just like Lotus but with a smaller circumference. So i was was gonna drill 8 new holes between the existing holes and then fill the old holes with steel bushings tack welded in place. 

The adapater plate was gonna be the expensive part measuring out at 1 5.8" thickness on top of the spacer needed for the flywheel. THis more then likely killed it for me. THe way the subby flywheel is recessed into the block unlike any engine I have ever seen, makes it so you have to compensate with thicker adapter plate. 

 

 

10 hours ago, drdoom said:

Harry Martens ( HML, of Holland ) can provide a crownwheel/pinion set 10% shorter in ratio, for those troubled by the long-legged set standard on the Esprit. I'm not one to preach on how to get things done most expeditiously ( as my S2 resto project demonstrates ) but in Glen's situation it seems the sound way forward would be to install an aftermarket ECU providing direct fire spark and fuel injection, so abandoning the 2 most frequent sources of bother.

Cheers

Information like this needs to be more readily available, maybe i'm one of the few that's in the dark. 

DOes this shorter ratio wheel/pinion come off of another junk French car? 

Or is it custom made of more robust forging? I would love to contact Harry.

I dont believe the ratio is the complaint, it's the fragility.  

[drdoom]

Hey Michael,

This pertains to the Citroen box in the pre-"88 cars, just to be clear. Turns out the Citroens were made with transaxles of both 4.38 ( OEM Esprit ) and 4.88 ( the Maserati Merak SS ) ratios. Harry proposes that the 1 fewer teeth on the pinion, which are therefore a bit more stout, makes the 4.88 set stronger. Why do you think French cars are junk?

[v8GTmac1]

10 hours ago, drdoom said:

Harry Martens ( HML, of Holland ) can provide a crownwheel/pinion set 10% shorter in ratio, for those troubled by the long-legged set standard on the Esprit. I'm not one to preach on how to get things done most expeditiously ( as my S2 resto project demonstrates ) but in Glen's situation it seems the sound way forward would be to install an aftermarket ECU providing direct fire spark and fuel injection, so abandoning the 2 most frequent sources of bother.

Cheers

i just searched, he currently makes them only for the Citroen gearbox, Renault gearbox came along late 80s?

11 minutes ago, drdoom said:

Hey Michael,

This pertains to the Citroen box in the pre-"88 cars, just to be clear. Turns out the Citroens were made with transaxles of both 4.38 ( OEM Esprit ) and 4.88 ( the Maserati Merak SS ) ratios. Harry proposes that the 1 fewer teeth on the pinion, which are therefore a bit more stout, makes the 4.88 set stronger. Why do you think French cars are junk?

ok I will rephrase that,   Less then adequate French donor. 

I love all european cars, except Bmw and Benz. 

[drdoom]

Over here in North America, Lotus ran out their supply of Citroen boxes in the earliest Stevens body cars, inboard brakes and all. All the Stevens cars sold in UK and Europe were fitted with Renault from the start of that '88 model year run. We got the Renault box with the introduction of the SE Turbo, around '89 1/2 IIRC.

[nicholden]

Hey, I asked the question as I bought an S4 with no gearbox and I plan on a full rebuild of the car. 
I have a WRX Subaru 5 speed behind a 400 hp LS1 in my DeLorean and I am very pleased with it.

I have a 2010 Liberty BD4 6 speed for the esprit. I will convert it to a 2WD box and install an LSD.

So I can have an adapter plate designed, does anyone know if their is a CAD file out there of the Lotus bell housing? I have one for the gearbox so I’m halfway there! 
Thank you, Nick 

[v8GTmac1]

Wow, you actually accomplished a conversion but on a rear mounted engine so how did you get the subby trans to spin backards?

I"m very pleased to hear you made this happen. Is this your build thread http://dmctalk.org/archive/index.php/t-10931.html

[jonwat]

1 hour ago, v8GTmac1 said:

Wow, you actually accomplished a conversion but on a rear mounted engine so how did you get the subby trans to spin backards?

Excuse my confusion but I was under the impression the Scooby was a front engined car. 🤢

[v8GTmac1]

On 25/04/2020 at 11:43, jonwat said:

Excuse my confusion but I was under the impression the Scooby was a front engined car. 🤢

The scooby  has the engine up front yes, but it is very short and the front axles(awd) still square up with the hubs/spindles/uprights. Simply eliminating the rear driveshaft and blocking off the trans with a plate makes it a 2wd trans. 

The way this guy did it to his Delorean or for an off road buggy, you get a backwards geared Ring and Pinion and flip the trans over. 

 

[jonwat]

5 hours ago, v8GTmac1 said:

The scooby  has the engine up front yes, but it is very short and the front axles(awd) still square up with the hubs/spindles/uprights. Simply eliminating the rear driveshaft and blocking off the trans with a plate makes it a 2wd trans. 

The way this guy did it to his Delorean or for an off road buggy, you get a backwards geared Ring and Pinion and flip the trans over. 

 

My confusion is that I can see why you need to reverse the drive for a rear engined car but not for a mid engined one 

[andydclements]

Does the original scubby engine spin in the same direction as the engine now powering it? I'm with @jonwat that if the engines spin in the same rotational direction (not all do) and the engine is in the same relative position (in front of the transaxle) then surely the transaxle input shaft will simply need to rotate in it's designed rotational direction to result in forward motion.

[jonwat]

8 minutes ago, andydclements said:

if the engines spin in the same rotational direction (not all do)

I agree, the engine in the Citroen Maserati spun anti clockwise which allowed the transmission to be fitted to the Giugiaro Esprit without reversing the drive & the reason Harry Martens has has had a batch of reversed CWPs made. 

[nicholden]

On 26/04/2020 at 03:13, v8GTmac1 said:

Wow, you actually accomplished a conversion but on a rear mounted engine so how did you get the subby trans to spin backards?

I"m very pleased to hear you made this happen. Is this your build thread http://dmctalk.org/archive/index.php/t-10931.html

Hi Michael, sorry for my delay, I have been flat out with work recently. I didnt have a theard with my DeLorean as such but a youtube channel did a story on it a few years ago here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JwUQOIO81Q