Spinney

To be honest I’ve not had a chance to give it more thought yet and the poor car has just been sat in my garage without moving since the reg was replaced. I’m in Marrakesh at the moment (very probably the maddest place on this planet) so will start to look at it in the next couple of weeks. Thanks for the reminder. 🙏

show her this and tell her to man up!

A generous offer Bibs and might be worth pursuing to help other since this does seem to be a fairly common issue.

Ok so I had the window regulator replaced at Bell & Colvill during the week and asked them to place the faulty one in the boot. Today I got around to looking at the old one, as you can see in the pic below. Not surprisingly it isn't obvious, just from looking at it, what has caused it to fail but I can make a couple of observations. Firstly, the rubber seal under the metal cap, which is the primary protection from water damage, is misaligned as you can see and would, I am sure, allow the ingress of moisture/dust. Secondly, although the PCB is coated in a lacquer like material which, presumably, is the secondary protection against moisture damage, they appear to have missed a bit about the size of my small finger nail on the lower L shaped section. Interestingly, the uncoated piece sits right under the misaligned rubber seal and when you lift it, you can see some water corrosion around the soldered connections, so I think it reasonable to assume that could be where the problem lies. Trying to repair and test this component is way above my pay grade so I am seriously considering talking again to the guy from the ECU repair company to ask if he can test it and see if there are any obvious problems that can be easily fixed. There are no locating pegs, or similar, under the rubber seal, which appears to me to be a design shortcoming, so I guess there will always be a chance the person assembling it can do so with it misaligned. I imagine the lacquer coating is simply a 'belt and braces' backup in case of the rubber seal failing but, of course, if that isn't even coating all the components on the PCB, then you can easily see how the regulator might fail. Unfortunately, this just seems to be a case of shoddy assembly work which has allowed the ingress of moisture, a not uncommon issue in Italian manufactured parts I'm afraid. I just hope for their sake they don't make submarines!

Yesterday I spoke to a guy in a company that normally specialises in diagnostics and repairs to engine ECU's. I explained the problem to him and was told they have carried out repairs to similar automotive electronic components before, though not specifically to a window regulator, but he wasn't at all fazed and said if it is simply a fault in the PCB or electronic components therein, they should be able to diagnose and repair as all automotive electronics are, in his words, very logical and quite easy to understand. That's obviously easy for him to say as the entire subject of modern electronics is other worldly to me! He has suggested a fault find, repair and testing would probably cost in the region of £100-130 but would obviously need to see it first. He did actually sound very confident they can handle it so I guess somebody would need to risk up to £130 to see if they can. Of course you won't then know for sure until the regulator is fitted back in the car and fully tested. I'm tempted once the regulator is off my car and at least I can maybe keep it as a spare, unless anybody has one that's failed and is up for giving it a go? If it all works out, it's a considerable saving over the cost of a new replacement and it does seem a real shame to get rid of the complete regulator and motor assembly just for the sake of a (possibly) fubared component costing pennies on the PCB. I'll need to give this some thought.

Oh wow that’s waaaaay beyond my pay grade. Definitely looks like a job for my electronics wizard pal. Can you see any evidence at all that moisture ingress could be the culprit? If so, I guess one needs to ask the question what is different about how this component is mounted on the Evora door, compared to the SEAT or similar.

I don’t yet know what the regulator internals look like, but do you think there is any possibility the electronic components themselves can be individually checked and replaced as necessary?

They do look pretty similar don't they, thanks for posting it. Hopefully the label will still be on mine so I can see the part number.

Following on from my weekend thread about my drivers door window not closing properly against the top seal, I dropped in to Bell & Colvill this morning for a diagnosis. As feared/expected it's been diagnosed as the dreaded window regulator going bad and that'll be a cool £730, including fitting, to you sir! This is quite clearly a not unusual problem on the Evora and, in fact, I already had one replaced on the same window, with the same fault when the car was only about 4 months old but at least that was covered under warranty. So, what is causing this common issue? Is it poor location that is allowing the elements to corrode electrics? Is it poor design that just isn't up to the job being asked of it? Is it Italian designed electronics manufactured by Alfa-Romeo? (ok that last one is tongue in cheek). Nevertheless, there obviously is a problem here judging by how often it's mentioned in the forums, on a car where there are relatively few examples on the roads. I have heard water ingress might be an issue but to be honest, my own car very rarely sees any rain so I'm doubtful that is my particular problem. I am thinking that when my old regulator is removed from the car, I will ask B & C to let me have it back so I can, hopefully, try and have diagnosed what is causing the issue. If it is an electronic issue then it surely must be repairable by somebody with the right skills. That won't be me as whilst I'm ok with oily bits, I'm afraid electronics are a dark art where I'm concerned, although I do have a mate who knows what he is doing with those magic electrons, so might at least be able to give me a pointer. I won't be surprised, of course, if any electronic components are factory sealed and will be utterly destroyed by opening but I figure it's worth a try. I suspect the problem might just come down to inferior/cheap component quality chosen by Lotus, in which case there may not be much I can do. However it surely can't be beyond the wit of man to find suitable replacement parts of a greatly improved quality. My wife's car, for example, is a 14 year old Mercedes SLK which employs a similar action to the Evora in that the window drops an inch or so when opening the door and then raises automatically against the seals when it's closed and I don't ever recall reading about similar problems with those cars. I am going ahead with getting mine replaced but what I would like to achieve is to try and figure out how it fails and then find a way of repairing my existing one so the knowledge can be added to the forum for future use. Any ideas or suggestions of what causes this problem is gratefully received. Just to add to this, De Roure currently have 10 regulators in stock, in case anybody is after one.

Yep I think you’re right. Similar happened on the same window when the car was only a couple of months old but it least it was under warranty then.

Thanks for that and it is what I did. Unfortunately, after going up, the window immediately lowers itself the usual amount as if I’d opened the door, even though I’m still holding the switch in the open position and the door is closed. Time for a phone call to Bell & Colvill I fear.

I know it’s been discussed many times but I can’t find the definitive procedure for resetting the electric window, so can somebody please advise? I noticed this morning, the drivers door window of my GT410 isn’t sitting all the way closed, ie it’s dropped as it does when opening the door but won’t close fully when shutting the door. I sat in it, turned on the ignition, lowered the window and held the switch for 5 seconds, then raised the window, holding the switch again. However, when doing this, the window does go right up as it should but then a second later, even whilst holding the switch in position, it opens an inch of its own volition as though I’ve just opened the door. Can somebody advise the correct reset sequence for me please?

Yeah sorry about that Bibs, my fault entirely. I knew I shouldn’t have had that final bottle of wine last night!😂

Re my earlier post, I was in a deeply contemplative mode whilst writing it late last night, hence it wasn’t particularly Lotus specific. I guess it was on the back of reading about yet another utterly senseless stabbing and killing of a young person and then reading about the mindless vandalism of a much admired Sycamore tree in Cumbria. It was interesting too that far eastern values have been brought up. We have travelled through most of the developed far east countries and what stood out for us is the respect shown for their environment and for other folk, especially the old. Litter is a no no and on crowded trains, a young person will always offer their seat to an older traveller entering the carriage. How refreshing it was for us Brits to witness. I really wonder just how it is we have let our country’s standards and values plummet to the depths we have. I am currently in the middle of fighting a legal battle brought about entirely by the greed of one young person. I should maybe let it go but then it’s fighting and, hopefully, winning small battles such as these which, in my mind anyway, let me prove to myself I’m not prepared to accept bad behaviour nor lies and corruption. That is not the kind of country I want to continue growing old in. There I go again, getting all serious. Now back to Lotus!😁

I was discussing this with some friends of a similar age today and we all agreed we have become dinosaurs, outdated, from an age where we did things differently. Not necessarily better but just different. Our discussion started with flexible working practices, necessitated by Covid but seemingly very quickly adapted to become the new working norm, where folk will maybe only visit the office occasionally. To all of us in the discussion this is anathema that, having run our own businesses, we would never have agreed to long term, were we still in control. Following this, we moved to the question of how do you establish and build a relationship if you aren’t socialising with others, maybe through work? Then the topic moved to sexual identity and how even the very young are told they don’t have to be binary but instead, can be anywhere on the spectrum between the two extremes. You no longer need to accept or identify as your biological birth gender. Finally we moved onto our favourite subject (bearing in mind we are all in our mid 70’s) of cars, in particular, cars powered by an internal combustion petrol engine, preferably with many cylinders. Amongst this group of mates (we are all volunteer stewards at Brooklands motor museum in Weybridge) the marques owned include Lotus (obviously) Porsche, Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin and an old Jaguar so you get the picture, we are all dyed in the wool petrolheads. Whilst accepting the need for electric cars, we are all horrified to see our favoured brands having to go down that route. In particular, I really fail to see how much longer Lotus will be able to continue using their ‘For the Driver’ strap line, given all the technology being included on future products, designed to eliminate much of the human’s input and decision making. The general consensus was an acceptance we no longer are a comfortable fit with this modern world of ours. We no longer recognise the brands or societal values we all grew up with. I’ve probably now bought my last new Lotus and certainly my last new daily car, both satisfyingly petrol powered, and have absolutely no wish to ever buy an overweight battery powered car. So that means Lotus, the marque I’ve loved and owned many examples of for about 65 years, will no longer be available to me. Like C8RKH, I wish them well but sadly, they won’t be seeing me as a customer any longer. An era is over. Stop the world please, I want to get off!

I have great memories of reading the Biggles books when I were a lad. I can’t get on with Kindle at all and much prefer to hold a proper page turning book. I’ve been hooked on horror and crime/murder thrillers for probably the last 50 years or so and really need to cull my collection. More recently though, I’ve been listening to audiobooks when I’m driving on my own. Much prefer those to listening to music most of the time.

I owned a few ‘buy to let’ properties until this time last year and what you’ve said there is precisely the reason I chose to get out of that market. The increasingly onerous landlord legislation, falling property prices and stroppy tenant risk was simply making the whole thing unviable as an investment. All my properties were well maintained and in a good state of decoration but, sadly, it was obvious to me that fewer tenants showed very much respect for other peoples property. I eventually decided it just isn’t a risk I’m prepared to take any longer and I know quite a few other landlords who arrived at the same conclusion, hence why they are getting out of the market too.

And if all buildings had to be built to a similar high standard of thermal efficiency, the costs of materials would become more affordable. Like I said, it just needs the will and determination.

Absolutely, we agree then that the building industry should be forced to meet these standards. I can’t accept that just because it isn’t done as a norm right now, then we can’t do it in this country. All things are possible with the will, right training and checks to ensure the standards are being met. To suggest otherwise is just being lazy. I’m not saying our wonderful government, of whatever colour, will actually take the necessary steps but it IS possible. People generally can be very reluctant to change their ways of doing things, especially in manual trades. “It’s served me well for decades, so why should I change?” I ran my own manufacturing company for nearly 30 years, until retiring, and we employed many time served metalworkers who’d known nothing else, for decades in some cases. I was very proactive in bringing in useful new technology, designed to improve, speed up and cut costs of many processes. Every single time we did this, I had a real battle royal with our factory staff who simply didn’t see the point in changing working practices that had served them well all their working lives. I involved them in the early assessment stages, the ordering and then, of course, on site training from the suppliers but throughout this most of them had to be dragged kicking and screaming, convinced they knew best. Nevertheless, we persisted as I wasn’t going to be thwarted by backward looking individuals who refused to move with the times. Interestingly, in every single case though, the previously reluctant individuals eventually and grudgingly admitted the new processes were vastly superior. Hence why I firmly believe change is possible, but you just need the right people at the top to make it happen and never take no for an answer. Therein lies the problem and the reason it won’t happen any time soon, I’m afraid.

I would argue the skills are there, maybe just not in the quantity needed. So, again, why not legislate to ensure there is training and forcing the construction trade to adopt the necessary practices? The solution is simple, it’s the will that’s missing.

But they could be so again, why aren’t we legislating to force builders to comply?

As already said, the vast majority of the existing housing stock in this country is entirely unsuitable for retrofitting an air source heat pump. Unsurprisingly, the U.K. government is ignoring that fact and are not proposing how it might be overcome, other than trotting out the hackneyed ‘you need to insulate’ lines. Yes that is true but isn’t always practical and is oversimplifying what actually needs to be done and how it will be achieved. Why aren’t we legislating for a proper level of heat pump friendly insulation in all new builds, including the compulsory fitment of extensive solar + battery electricity storage? At least then you’d have a chance of making air source heat pumps work as they should. Personally, I’d rather go for a decent ground source heat pump if I had enough land + building a super insulated home.

Is he selling the eyebrows? We could do with door draught excluder this coming winter.

I think the Wagner group will support whoever continues to pay them. I’m not sure they had any strong allegiance to Prighozin per se.

It’s how Putin and the Kremlin regime stay in power. Let it be known to anybody else thinking about challenging them that this is what will happen if you so much as think about crossing us. You might be poisoned, thrown off a tall building or shot down if you fly.