SteveSmith

I am indeed planning to be there

Well folks, I got the train up to Sparky's yesterday to collect my troublesome car (with some trepidation to be honest). We took it out for a run round the block and it drove perfectly so, after discussing the various things that have been done to it, I drove it the 100 miles back home to SE Kent. Friday afternoon M25 traffic in full sun tested its stop/start abilities and rad fans - didn't miss a beat all the way... As Sparky has said, I'm going to be using it as much as possible over the next few weeks to see if the same old problem of the gradual degradation reoccurs but I'm actually (faintly) optimistic this time round. The level of detail that Sparky has reached with this makes me believe that it may finally be resolved after nearly 9 years of serious frustration and even if the problem does come back, so many things have now been replaced / readjusted / cleaned up that it has narrowed it down to what I believe and Sparky believes to be an electrical issue whether that be a dodgy connector or wire somewhere. I really am hoping thats the end of it now and I have so much admiration for Sparky's unending efforts to resolve this and cannot thank him enough. I'll post updates on this thread over the next couple of weeks as follow up but so far so good !! Sparky - you're my hero

You love it really

Standing by in a kind of 'not standing by' way as I'm going to be away camping from tomorrow until Sunday and probably won't be able to check on here for updates... If there's anything newsworthy, could you call or text me ??

Nice one !! Glad to be of service

There's usually a sticker somewhere on the door shut with serial/model number.

Got / downloaded the instruction manual ?? Some have an automated adjustment, others have a well hidden adjustment dial.

Unsurprisingly, we have the same hard water issues here. Not sure about Bosch machines but most dishwashers have an adjustment setting somewhere for the amount of salt used in a cycle based on the hardness of the water in the area. Our dishwasher seems to be set up pretty well as most stuff comes out without any residue although we never put any glasses / glassware in it as they go 'milky' really quickly.

I agree that the injectors need replacing before progressing further BUT Sparky has already proven that thats not the end of the story as he's swapped out his own rail/injectors and it idles fine with the turbo/chargecooler disconnected but immediately runs badly again with it reconnected. Trev - I was lost long before my friend started talking to me LOL. He doesn't know the Esprit turbo system but he was just commenting based on a standard modern turbo system.

Just been chatting to a friend who is pretty knowledgable about turbo systems and, having described the high outlet pressure at idle, he is convinced its a vacuum issue. Here's a quick grab of the conversation: Me: What would you expect the compressor in the turbo to be doing at idle ?? Him: f**k all Me: So freewheeling basically and stoppable by hand ?? Him: well i wouldnt stop it by hand.. but yes Me: Mine is spinning up significantly and incredibly difficult to stop by any means It is creating a huge amount of pressure With the car idling Him: it is a regular turbo init? charge feed or anything? Me: Regular - nothing special Him: then it can only be fed from exhaust gasses and therefore cannot be diverted correctly Me: Exactly How else can it be diverted though ?? Him: it cannot - only through atmospheric but atmos pressure is about 4psi!! which will do naff all I would suggest blocking it off and running it first without the blower Me: Blocking it off ?? How ?? Him: hosing out and block it off... and see what it does as it *should* idle correctly Me: Well, he's disconnected the pipe from the turbo outlet to the plenum and it then idles really well and ECU data is much more sensible Him: right - thats a good start Me: As soon as the turbo is reintroduced, it goes stupid again Him: there HAS to be a vacuum issue the blower cannot cause this by itself Me: Any suggestions on what/where the vacuum issue may be ?? Him: well there can only be a handful of vacuum feeds to the blower and I would pinch them off one at a time you will have some form of recirc system that would be my first guess diverting that to atmosphere would give you a bodge cure for the idle but would run like a bag of s**t when it comes on to turbo Me: But thats the big problem, its at the point of coming on to turbo (2500 to 3000 rpm ish) that it stutters and stumbles Him: well I am not b****y surprised !!! if the pressure at idle is too high then what will it be doing at 3-4k!!! it will be causing major league back pressue on the turbo prop which will ultimately butcher the bearings of course!! Anything useful in that little lot ?? Have you swapped out the MAP sensor yet ??

<tannoy>STRAIGHT JACKET FOR MR CLARK. WE NEED IT NOW. SUSPECTED FUEL POISONING</tannoy>

Go ahead with the injectors - if they're leaking they need replacing - simples ! As far as I'm aware, they've never been touched in my ownership - certainly not by me at any rate and no mention or cost from those who have worked on the car in the past.

I like your thinking Steve. Alas, the car has had at least 2 changes of HT leads in my 8 years of ownership and always with the Lotus spec leads. However, as the original posts in this thread detailed, the first 100 odd miles after each service its had, the car seemed to run well implying that something done during the services temporarily rectifies the problem but it deteriorates again. You may be onto something with your suggestion Steve, but I'll have to leave it with Sparky to determine whether to pursue it as I'm beyond the point of rational thought with this car now !!

I think its fair to say that you can instantly rule out exhaust restrictions because the problem existed when I bought the car with OE exhaust and still existed after I changed to a Quiksilver sports exhaust. Could a gutted cat with its cavernous chamber be causing a lack of back pressure ?? A cat bypass pipe would obviously restrict things but only for the approx 30cm of the length of the cat before the gases head into the tailpipe. Derek has aluded to the chip mismatch with the car. Is there any merit in / possibility of swapping the chip with a standard SE one ?? Might be a worthless test as we know there are many SEs out there with S4s chips running without these problems... Are there any other SEs available to test the turbo outlet flow at idle ??

I'm sooooooo sorry this is proving to be a real nightmare for you I officially lost my marbles about all this about 7 years ago so I feel your pain So just to recap - we're talking new injectors which should resolve the rich running and figuring out what the hell is going on with the turbo as back pressure doesn't seem to be the issue ??

I replaced the turbo gasket in Oct 2005 although the gasket was blowing when I bought the car a year previous. The local Lotus specialist was meant to be replacing the gasket for me whilst doing a C service. I provided the gasket but they told me they couldn't replace it because it was the wrong gasket. I knew it was the correct gasket so can only assume they didn't want the hassle of removing the turbo... Anyway, I finally got around to changing the gasket myself in the hope that it might miraculously solve the poor running issues. As we know, it didn't...

The cat is completely hollow - I remember testing that with a long screwdriver when I replaced the exhaust... So are you thinking that at some point there was enough back pressure created to somehow blow a route through the turbo from exhaust side to inlet side ?!? If thats the case then, another point to note is that the EBPV was completely devoid of its 'flaps' when I removed it whilst replacing the exhaust. Significant ?!?

I can't honestly remember having any problems sealing the turbo to downpipe joint other than the fact that the ring thats loose on the downpipe that is used to attach to the turbo is very bent rather than what I would expect to be flat. Following photo shows it well: http://lexi.mantaur.co.uk/images/turbo5.jpg Is it meant to be bent like that or has someone previously tightened up the bolts way too much and somehow bent it using some incredible force ?!? Anyway, very curious to hear more about this other possibility you're pursuing tonight...

I know I'm probably asking the obvious here but have you checked the turbo outlet on another car at idle ?? I'm way out of my depth technically now so have no idea what is 'normal'. Also, I've been checking out all the historical photos I have of the car whilst in my ownership and found the following, taken in 2005, after I discovered that there was an air leak in the manifold to turbo joint: http://lexi.mantaur.co.uk/images/turbo1.jpg http://lexi.mantaur.co.uk/images/turbo2.jpg http://lexi.mantaur.co.uk/images/turbo3.jpg http://lexi.mantaur.co.uk/images/turbo4.jpg Not sure if any of them are of any help in the diagnosing process - but, at the very least, it shows Sparky that the turbo has been detached from the manifold in fairly recent times so should come off again without too much bother !!

Having given this some more thought, I'm even more confused than I was before... When I bought the car, the impellor in the chargecooler pump was clearly shot as the chargecooler was hot to the touch after a run and Freescan showed much higher than normal temps. However, when I fitted an electric pump, the chargecooler was (and still is) cool to the touch after a spirited run and Freescan concurred with my findings by showing more than acceptable ambient temps. I'm sure I have some Freescan logs somewhere from 8 years ago showing the before and after and nothing has changed since then... Also, I've tried to research the phenomenon of exhaust gases getting into the intake due to a failed turbo and I can't find a single reference to it. So I'm still confused, especially as you tested your rail/injectors which ran well until you reconnected the chargecooler

Believe me Trev, I've begun the search behind the sofa, under the floorboards, in the loft etc etc I think its fair to say I have very mixed emotions about this news. On the one hand, I'm elated that the problem has been identified and can now be fixed and I can now hopefully drive what is a beautiful car. On the other hand, because of a numbskull DPO, I'm discovering a deep resistance from my wife to allowing the fairly large expenditure on the car just to satisfy my 'whim'... She'll come round, but I won't be allowed to forget it...

Its all gone very quiet....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.......... Don't say that

Thanks for checking over the log Travis. I'm sure Sparky will take what he needs from your findings. The reason I only hit 76% TPS and didn't reach full boost or fifth gear was that it was a warm Spring weekend and, because I live right by the sea, the traffic becomes unbearable at the first sign of any sun!!! And as I was nervous about taking the car too far and risk getting stuck, I decided to do my best on the busy local roads... Thanks again all for your help so far. Possible leaky injectors and wastegate maladjusted sounds plausible to me but what do I know... I'm just the guy who's desperate to drive a healthy car

The only specialist / dealer who has looked at it over the last 8 years who made ANY kind of sensible comment was that they removed the crank sensor, cleaned it up and put it back in again (whilst also doing a C service) and when they started it up and ran it, it was fine. But, as I've said before, they'd also fiddled with a lot of other stuff doing the C service so its anybody's guess what temporarily made it run OK. My local main dealer told me that I needed to give the car a good blast to clear the carbs out... Needless to say, they won't be touching my car again