Future of the Evora in the USA

[Ccd]

As a side note, having different regulations between the US and EU never made sense to me.  I have been in favor of the US adopting EU rules.  Advantage are less government expense because no testing needed, possibly less expensive cars and certainly a greater variety of cars from the EU.  Lastly, the EU is one of the few places with higher labor costs than the US, so it would open the possibility of manufacturing cars here for non-US markets.

[NedaSay]

Ah ah ah,  go tell that to the US  government. Carmarkers have been clamouring for global NCAP and a global homologation process for decades to no avail.

And hum It is all about protecting the Big Three from foreign competition.

[Ccd]

All countries try to protect their companies/industries.  Strikes me that a tariff is FAR more efficient and transparent than crash regulations.  I know, I know....I’m preaching to the choir.   

[PAR]

It is rather the other way around, if you put a tariff (which for goods you are likely to be limited by wto rules) then you get slapped a tariff back and you end up less competitive at export.

If you put regs (pollution/crash) in places that are discussed first with local carmakers, then you can agree something that they intended to do anyway or that fits their current models so minimising the implementation costs for them while requiring full redesign for competitors.

Many countries not producing l’argent engines have special environnemental tax on large engines, that is an easy win.

Because the US is such a big market, then the big three are sure they get the volume to amortise and this makes it a less attractive markets for people who don’t have a client base so minimises new entries.

[CharlieBrown]

On 04/04/2019 at 08:00, Ccd said:

`My guess is that the GT, if it comes to the US, will do so with little fanfare from Lotus.  The main aim of this car is probably to keep its existing dealership network alive.  I don’t see a true push into the US market until the new car arrives in 2021.  IOW, the new car can’t get here fast enough.  

IMO Evora GT will be a water down GT430 but more expensive than the Evora 400. The new car for 2021 will be in the US in 2022 the earliest. 

[au-yt]

While the US market is the main focus of the discussion, this video pretty much sums up what Lotus are up against with US market. If the owner is reading this good on you for buying one and identifying what the American market thinks.

PS I find most of the comments annoyingly.

[au-yt]

9 hours ago, NedaSay said:

Did this US customer buy the car sight unseen, with no prior testing and no discussion with his dealer??? Why didn't he get a classic 400 with the glass lid that is still available...  The comments about dropping his car at a "port" for a 2/3 week period is mindboggling. Would any of you guys leave his pride and joy and arguably second car at a carpark for that long? 

Anyway by the sound of it the next Lotus model shall satisfy the likes of him.

He has done 3 videos, the second one is a slight improvement. I think he likes purple.

https://m.youtube.com/user/v317865

 

 

[NedaSay]

You think it is an improvement? Really?! It feels to me that this guy ordered the car on amazon and got it delivered and is only now discovering his car.

I am starting to have a thing against guys who are buying cars and decides to review them, just because:

a) they got a new car,

b) they got a smartphone, 

c) there's that thing called youtube, 

d) everybody else is doing so why can't we ( My favorite Cranberries' album but I digress)

Rant over for now.

 

The guy said he gave it some juice... how high did he push it the car had 39 miles on the odo as of the first vid? third vid was 3 days later, Evora 400 deliver most of its go above 4000 rpm. Did he push beyond 4k with an engine that's not bedded yet? 

[C8RKH]

17 hours ago, Breeze said:

The New Owner video is interesting though as it gives an idea of what the non enthusiast, potential Lotus owner is looking for in a car. I fully agree that none of his points would be of any issue at all to me, but were clearly of issue to him. He seemed to be the sort of guy who wants to make an impression with his car, not actually enjoy driving it. That said, if Lotus want to have a wider appeal, they really should have a less performance, more luxury model in their range. The Add lightness thing can also look a lot like add cheapness in some cases. For the US market, and many others, lotus need a proper GT version of the Evora, not everyone wants to be fast and furious or a track day king.

If that's the case then he has plenty of other options outside of a LOTUS to buy - a Corvette, a 911, a muscle car, an Ooodi etc.  So are you saying that in order to be successful LOTUS just needs to build a car like everyone elses?  I like the fact that LOTUS is not like everyone elses car, it is what makes the brand appealing to me.  It seems to me that the sooner anondyne, bland, lifeless, driverless cars come to the mass market the better as a lot of people just want to choose the number of cup holders and colour and don't give a hoot about uniqueness and driver involvement etc. It might sound a bit of an extreme view, but I do feel that we are moving towards the end of motoring for pleasure and enjoyment, and more about motoring for the purpose of transport only.  I know I am in the minority but if Lotus morphs into Porsche then I might as well go and buy a real Porsche rather than an imitation. I just think in this instance the guy bought a car that he knew nothing about, had not researched, and by the sound of it had not even properly test driven. As i said, a fool and his money were easily parted, and I'd blame the fool for outcome as opposed to the manufacturer of the car :)

 

[Julian73]

On 31/03/2019 at 05:41, Bibs said:

Lotus have been selling Evora GT's for some time now, it's hardly a secret.

And in the US the model is Evora GT .. no numbers

On 02/04/2019 at 10:24, Ccd said:

I’ve been thinking about Lotus’ decision to bring the Evora GT to the US as the only model available here and my question is why the GT???  The Evora is not selling particularly well in the US.  Why would a much more expensive version do any better???  Absent major price cuts, the GT would be in the $150,000 range.  That is close to Porsche GT3 money, close to NSX money, and more than the MB GT S.  How many cars could Lotus expect to sell???  How would this car sustain their current dealer base???  I just don’t see how this makes any sense.

Lotus needs a car that can sell in sufficient volumes to support AND expand its current dealer base in the US.  Can’t see the GT as being that car.

The Evora GT starts at $117,000 and is in base form a GT aero package to the 400. it is not a 410 nor a 430 unless optioned out that way.

[Julian73]

On 03/04/2019 at 15:54, CharlieBrown said:

But is the GT the one they say they will show at the end of 2020?....or just water down GT430?...…………….By the way, Lotus could ask for another government exemption for the Exige Cup only and sell it here in the US until the new cars are out. It would sell way more than the Evora 400. They just don't want to.

Not true,  exemptions dried up, even on the Series 1 Evora, thus the 400 with dual face airbags and side bags; even Aston Martin lost the exemption extensions.

[Ccd]

19 hours ago, Julian73 said:

And in the US the model is Evora GT .. no numbers

The Evora GT starts at $117,000 and is in base form a GT aero package to the 400. it is not a 410 nor a 430 unless optioned out that way.

And how would anyone know this without a dealer telling them???  No such info on the website or anything that I’ve seen reported in the press.  If true, I will say that dropping the numbers makes sense

[Ccd]

This would make sense as it would double the number of cars that would be available in the US.  You have to wonder how long the current dealership network can survive on just one car being available for sale in the US

[CharlieBrown]

On 13/04/2019 at 18:39, Julian73 said:

And in the US the model is Evora GT .. no numbers

The Evora GT starts at $117,000 and is in base form a GT aero package to the 400. it is not a 410 nor a 430 unless optioned out that wayi

Damn. So, the GT is just an Evora 400 with an aero package, and yet it cost $27,000 more than the base 400? -----What a Rip Off!....Let me get this straight. So, Lotus didn't sell enough of the Evora 400 at a price point of $90,000 so Lotus decided to raise the price 30%.

[CharlieBrown]

On 20/04/2019 at 22:01, NedaSay said:

Yeah about that, the release of a GT4 Concept would seem to indicate that the Evora will remain in production for a little while longer and that the new car will come in addition to it. That would mean the car comes either slightly below in terms of range or slightly above...  Remember that JMG hinted at the fact that the Exige would be the first car replaced?

Well I think the upcoming car may be an Evora based Exige, roomier than the current Exige, with all the bells and whistles Lotus can throw at it using Geely components, yet smaller than the Evora and priced lower at the bottom end but on par, if not higher at the top end. Then again the car would be more extreme than any Evora could be at the top end while being able to outgun the competition further down the range, a Cayman killer and at the same time 911 GT3 hunter. The absolute momentum car on track but with a powertrain that will pack very serious punch... 450bhp or more from the engine and because Geely has one on shelf and they will have plenty of time to make it bulletproof a 7 speed DCT gearbox, while still catering for the manual drivers with another refinement on the venerable Aisin BG6... With Geely backing them Lotus now has the legs to ask for a bespoke version.  

No way it will be smaller than the Evora. Lotus is going for more interior room and practicality with that new car. IMO, If it is an Exige, it will be the size of the Evora but with more Hp and a little more expensive.

[NC25T]

3 hours ago, CharlieBrown said:

Damn. So, the GT is just an Evora 400 with an aero package, and yet it cost $27,000 more than the base 400? -----What a Rip Off!....Let me get this straight. So, Lotus didn't sell enough of the Evora 400 at a price point of $90,000 so Lotus decided to raise the price 30%.

That’s not my understanding of the GT

its not just a 400 with aero, closer to a 410 with additional aero and suspension bits,.  

Can you even get a 400 with no options at $90k?  Every one that I see seems to be stickered at $110k-$125k

[C8RKH]

5 hours ago, NC25T said:

That’s not my understanding of the GT

its not just a 400 with aero, closer to a 410 with additional aero and suspension bits,.  

Can you even get a 400 with no options at $90k?  Every one that I see seems to be stickered at $110k-$125k

@CharlieBrown your understanding is not correct. As @NC25T says the GT is based on the Evora 410 Sport and is an evolution of it. The main difference to the 410 Sport is the new front and rear bumpers.  So, over the "standard" 410 you get that lovely extra carbon (front flap, roof, ducktail boot), some additional weight loss, retuned suspension, etc.

You can "scoff" at the additional carbon, but when you put an Evora GT next to cars costing significantly more from Aston, McLaren, Porsche etc the quality and amount of carbon on the Evora, compared to the others, is startling. Then take a look at the "cost" of the carbon upgrades on the cars from Aston, McLaren, Porsche etc and start weeping.

Only you can say whether it is worth it for you to pay the extra for the GT. If not, but a 400, still a wonderful car and 9.5/10ths of the GT for a lot less.

[Ccd]

NC25T:

I don’t know where you are looking, but 2017 Evora 400s are readily available in the US for $70-80,000 with low miles (under 10,000) and 2018s start just under $90,000.  Take a look at www.cargurus.com  Now if the GT starts at $117,000, it will make the 2017-18 Evoras look like bargains.

 I also suspect that the GT will be DOA in the US.  I just don’t see a 410 with added CF selling at that price in the States.  And Lotus’ timing could not be worse because the GT will probably hit our shores around the same time as the C8 Vette and I expect that car to have a major impact on the sports car market here.  

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I had no idea about USA Evora 400 prices, but just did a quick scan and NC25T is correct: unregistered dearler cars seem to be around the $110 - $125K mark. That will make the GT a very good buy if it retails at $117K as you state. You can't honestly compare that price to a two year-old used 400.

By the way $117K currently equates to GBP 90K. Unregistered GT410 Sports in the UK start from GBP 95K, so you'll be getting a bargain over there!

[Luc2000]

FYI, a new GT410 costs €180k (~$200k, GBP ~155k) in the Netherlands...

(although to be fair, almost all cars are more expensive here)

 

[CharlieBrown]

12 hours ago, NC25T said:

That’s not my understanding of the GT

its not just a 400 with aero, closer to a 410 with additional aero and suspension bits,.  

Can you even get a 400 with no options at $90k?  Every one that I see seems to be stickered at $110k-$125k

Yes, you can get an Evora 400 at $90k with no Options. Actually you can get one here in the states with options lower than 90k right now.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-Lotus-Evora-400/123720466586?hash=item1cce50809a%3Ag%3AWcYAAOSwPtBcpG3C&LH_ItemCondition=3000|1000|2500

Edited April 23, 2019 by CharlieBrown

[CharlieBrown]

6 hours ago, C8RKH said:

@CharlieBrown your understanding is not correct. As @NC25T says the GT is based on the Evora 410 Sport and is an evolution of it. The main difference to the 410 Sport is the new front and rear bumpers.  So, over the "standard" 410 you get that lovely extra carbon (front flap, roof, ducktail boot), some additional weight loss, retuned suspension, etc.

You can "scoff" at the additional carbon, but when you put an Evora GT next to cars costing significantly more from Aston, McLaren, Porsche etc the quality and amount of carbon on the Evora, compared to the others, is startling. Then take a look at the "cost" of the carbon upgrades on the cars from Aston, McLaren, Porsche etc and start weeping.

Only you can say whether it is worth it for you to pay the extra for the GT. If not, but a 400, still a wonderful car and 9.5/10ths of the GT for a lot less.

Well, I bought a new red 2017 Evora 400 (manual) 2 yrs ago and cost me $86k, sticker price was $94k. The only options the car came with was Cruise control and Subwoofer. I love the car. 

IMO, CF and a retuned suspension is not worth $27,000 extra. I don't compare Lotus to a McLaren or Aston Martin because those cars already come from factory with 500 bhp +...and for me that beats any extra CF in any car.

Don't get me wrong, the CF looks nice on the GT410.  But here in America Lotus has a hard time selling the Evora 400 even at a discounted prices. I don't see the Evora GT selling much when arrives over here later this year.

I assume the Evora GT will be sold at invoice price after 1 year. Just like they are doing with the Evora 400. However, even with that discount the Evora GT will be always about 30k more than an Evora 400...and by that time the new Lotus car will be available.

[NC25T]

 

2 hours ago, Ccd said:

NC25T:

I don’t know where you are looking, but 2017 Evora 400s are readily available in the US for $70-80,000 with low miles (under 10,000) and 2018s start just under $90,000.  Take a look at www.cargurus.com  Now if the GT starts at $117,000, it will make the 2017-18 Evoras look like bargains.

 I also suspect that the GT will be DOA in the US.  I just don’t see a 410 with added CF selling at that price in the States.  And Lotus’ timing could not be worse because the GT will probably hit our shores around the same time as the C8 Vette and I expect that car to have a major impact on the sports car market here.  

 

Autotrader, DuPont registry etc is where I am looking.  Not really sure how you can compare MSRP of a vehicle that isn’t on out streets yet vs a 2-3 yr old model that’s being now being sold used.  Yes, you can get a 207 evora 400 for under $60k if you look hard enough, however that’s a few years old and USED.  If you look at a new 2018 400 and it’s sticker/msrp, typically $105k-$124k will be the price range.  The evora 400 that I considered buying a few months back had a $119,700 sticker, which is now at $105k.  

 

33 minutes ago, CharlieBrown said:

Yes, you can get a brand new Evora 400 at $90k with no Options. Actually you can get one here in the states with options lower than 90k right now.

Yes these cars are being discounted however if you are looking at msrp of the GT you need to do the same for the 400.  One would expect if you can get 10-20% off a 400, you should be able to do the same with a GT.

where did you see a new 2018 400 with a $90k sticker?  Not talking about asking price but a no option msrp price.  

Edited April 23, 2019 by NC25T

[CharlieBrown]

1 hour ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

I had no idea about USA Evora 400 prices, but just did a quick scan and NC25T is correct: unregistered dearler cars seem to be around the $110 - $125K mark. That will make the GT a very good buy if it retails at $117K as you state. You can't honestly compare that price to a two year-old used 400.

By the way $117K currently equates to GBP 90K. Unregistered GT410 Sports in the UK start from GBP 95K, so you'll be getting a bargain over there!

Sorry mate, $117k is not a bargain here in America. Specially when you can get the new Carrera 911S (widebody), 443 bhp, $113,300.

Of course we can compared 1 and 2 year old used 400. You can find cars for 85k or less and they have no more than 3k miles on them.  Example this one with only 700 miles.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-Evora/133025958795?hash=item1ef8f70b8b%3Ag%3AwV0AAOSwqU9ct9~T&LH_ItemCondition=3000|1000|2500

9 minutes ago, NC25T said:

 

 

Autotrader, DuPont registry etc is where I am looking.  Not really sure how you can compare MSRP of a vehicle that isn’t on out streets yet vs a 2-3 yr old model that’s being now being sold used.  Yes, you can get a 207 evora 400 for under $60k if you look hard enough, however that’s a few years old and USED.  If you look at a new 2018 400 and it’s sticker/msrp, typically $105k-$124k will be the price range.  The evora 400 that I considered buying a few months back had a $119,700 sticker, which is now at $105k.  

 

Yes these cars are being discounted however if you are looking at msrp of the GT you need to do the same for the 400.  One would expect if you can get 10-20% off a 400, you should be able to do the same with a GT.

where did you see a new 2018 400 with a $90k sticker?  Not talking about asking price but a no option msrp price.  

There are no more cars advertised at MSRP. All Evora 400 in the states are price at invoice or lower. 

Here is the only one advertised as brand new. 2018 Evora 400 $105,000 from $113,000. Probably by the end of the year this car will be under 100k.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-Evora-400/254193198478?hash=item3b2f18658e%3Ag%3A-JwAAOSwVZ1cq1-v&LH_ItemCondition=3000|1000|2500

Edited April 23, 2019 by CharlieBrown

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

The good news is that the 2017 Evora 400 you bought new 2 years ago for $86K seems to be worth pretty much the same now, according to your above post (sorry, don't know your mileage).