Brexit

[Vanya]

2 hours ago, Advantage said:

Here's a good visual aid to help decide your vote:

Why is Tony Blair still a free man?

Hold that thought, I'll come back to this sack of s**t later. 

There's a lot of worry about immigration. I'm curious though, are UK residents concerned about immigration in general or a mass influx of refugees? 

As a resident of Sweden, I've witnessed the sheer idiocy of this country's immigration policy over the course of 15 years. In Sweden, they've managed to merge the meanings of "immigrant" and "refugee" such that they're assumed to be the same thing. They're interchangeable. If you're an immigrant, especially of a darker complexion, it's simply assumed you arrived here as a result of some conflict. And with it follow a string of other prejudices as a result of WHY the country has pursued such politics;

This country has 10 million people living in it. Last year the government decided to take in roughly 190 000 people, mostly refugees from Syria and...Afghanistan, but also Libya and Iraq. The highest number per capita of any EU country second highest in absolute numbers after Germany. This year I believe the prognosis is another 120 000. The idiots decided to coin the term "Humanitarian Superpower1)" (White Man's Burden is a bit risqué so they opted out of that one) and go on a refugee-hoarding spree in order to make Sweden the world's biggest charity. Long story short, there was an acute housing shortage before all this due to the worlds most bureaucratic planning regulations and it hasn't improved; it won't improve either. The Migration Agency had people sleeping on it's office floors for a period last winter while they cleared out derelict buildings and other shacks unfit for dwellings to meet the influx. In this case, Swedish politicians (both sides of the spectrum bar one single party) supported this, citing the Dublin Regulation as the reason for this masochistic pursuit. It is a regulation that carries with it NO PENALTIES should it be ignored, like many countries did last year. So I can't say the EU is at fault in Sweden's case. 

Anyhow, I see immigration taking a lot of flak when it comes to debating the EU, but given the source of refugees over the last 15 years, I'd be hard pressed to blame it on the EU at all. 

Politicians keep on pulling the wool over the electorate's eyes, regardless of country, party or political orientation - instead of pointing the finger at the EU, wouldn't it be wiser for the plebiate (us) to direct our anger at the true sources of the current instability in the Middle East and North Africa? 

Now back to Blair - what if he hadn't decided to become a US lapdog and go about "liberating" Iraq, a country which most iraqi's tell me, was better under Saddam. Which governments and politicians decided to lead the charge in "liberating" Afghanistan - a campaign which is now bearing its ripest fruit as mostly young men, realising they have no future there and can perhaps live in comfort on the dole in Europe, make the journey west? Who decided to partake in the "liberation" of Libya, a country that even by Western standards had a relatively high median income, albeit was led by a bit of an oddball? Who decided to free the people of Syria creating IS, an unprecedented evil, in the process? 

None of these were, to my knowledge, centralised EU decisions enforced on member nations. Much of this geopolitical spiel has occurred with the consent and active participation of elected politicians, NATO and the US. I'd say it's time the blame was directed toward them. And perhaps it's time for the US government to shoulder some of the refugee burden that they themselves orchestrated through a combination of arrogance and incompetence. So when it comes to the refugee crisis, I don't think the EU should shoulder the blame... 

1) I believe the true reason for this is to dismantle the welfare state and generate a new sub working-class bringing Sweden in line with other nations neoliberal economics.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Vanya

[march]

8 minutes ago, ChrisJ said:

We must have voted OUT as the start of the acts of God promised by CMD have already started - please note I don't live on a riverbank

Nice and sunny here - all day

[LF1]

Just been to vote - local school. The classroom was not the usual we vote in. What was particularly interesting was the phenomenal amount of Union Jack bunting and flags of the U.K. countries all over the room (no EU flags), hanging from the ceiling and literally brushing your head as you walked to the booth.

Call me paranoid but I really don't think that is on? 

[Advantage]

48 minutes ago, Vanya said:

Why is Tony Blair still a free man?
 

Holder of a First Class ticket on the EU Gravy Train.

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, LF1 said:

Just been to vote - local school. The classroom was not the usual we vote in. What was particularly interesting was the phenomenal amount of Union Jack bunting and flags of the U.K. countries all over the room (no EU flags), hanging from the ceiling and literally brushing your head as you walked to the booth.

Call me paranoid but I really don't think that is on? 

Well blow me down with a feather duster, how disgusting for a classroom of a UK school to have UK flags all over it. How terrible. Really? Last time I looked they even had a union flag outside the EU head office. Come on, get over yourself. Next you'll be saying that number plate in top gear was done on purpose to wind up the Argentinians. For crying out loud this is exactly what is wrong with this country we don't celebrate how Great it is enough as it is.

[Advantage]

It's worse than that. Many polling stations had "In" printed on one of the doors but you didn't get to see the door with "Exit" written on it until you'd cast your vote. Shocking bias.  

[Andyww]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3656593/It-looks-like-EDL-rally-Polling-station-told-England-flags-angry-voters-complain-bias-favour-Brexit.html

Angry voters complaining about the English flag? I despair sometimes.

[Chillidoggy]

We've cast our out votes.

[LF1]

51 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Well blow me down with a feather duster, how disgusting for a classroom of a UK school to have UK flags all over it. How terrible. Really? Last time I looked they even had a union flag outside the EU head office. Come on, get over yourself. Next you'll be saying that number plate in top gear was done on purpose to wind up the Argentinians. For crying out loud this is exactly what is wrong with this country we don't celebrate how Great it is enough as it is.

Guessing you're an out then and have assumed I am an in?

That's some reaction. 

[Barrykearley]

And - the counting now starts.....

its gonna be a long night - and I've just started spanking a bottle of rum !

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, LF1 said:

Guessing you're an out then and have assumed I am an in?

That's some reaction. 

Not at all LF1 - in or out is your choice and democratic right.. Just found it a little incredulous that Union Flags in a normal UK school classroom caused a reaction. I mean they could have been doing a history segment on the UK or an ongoing part of the Queens 90th birthday celebration. Not everything is a conspiracy....

[andydclements]

In the end I just couldn't face the drive and the hobble, should have registered for postal vote but couldn't by the time I thought of it, so whatever the outcome I really shouldn't moan.

 

Whichever way it goes I just have one real desire, get ****ing Farage off the TV screens andother places.  Exit = we're headed to independence, so what of him then (job done)?  Remain = the country told him to shut up, so.....do an Alex Salmond and resign the position of head of UKIP.

[Barrykearley]

And junker will start to gradually erode those democratic rights if we do end up with a remain result.

my tips for the future are

• eu army within 5 years
• turkey joining within 3 years
• rise of the far right on mainland Europe.
• referendums in other eu countries in the next 2 years.
• ukip or nationalist party exposing in popularity just like snp

im afraid none of that is a great outcome which ever side of the fence you sit.

this is a pivotal point in my life time - and it could well impact life choices going forwards 

 

[andydclements]

4 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

...... Not everything is a conspiracy....

Oh but it is, the "Remain" campaign have perfected time travel and used it to go back in time making it so that pencils have become the norm for casting a vote, that way nobody would notice when this vote uses them enabling votes to leave to be altered.

 

Oh wait, that was just some F*Wits imagination.

And the pillock who was questioned by the police for offering his pen to others,has he never realised that interfering with the progress to a polling station is a criminal offence? 

[Advantage]

Meh, if voting actually changed anything we wouldn't be allowed to do it.

[Barrykearley]

^ dislike that - come on @Advantage - an awful lot of our ancestors gave up their lives for our right to vote

[DaveyT]

Doesn't make the statement any less true though, Barry....

[Barrykearley]

Fair one !! The more linked into the eu we become the less of a democratic say we will have.

[march]

Rumours reported on ITV that Farage is considering admitting defeat due to exit polls.

[DaveyT]

Cast my vote, asked the nephew & niece what they thought,  as it will affect them for longer than me. Both erred on the in side....

couldnt do it! 

I Reckon the best possible outcome is a narrow "out" victory for the referendum, allowing our illustrious leaders to get a decent deal on reform for the entire EU system.

We won't be allowed to leave, we contribute too much financially, but the bargaining potential with the prospect of other countries leaving the EU may just  have a beneficial outcome for all.

[Advantage]

14 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

Fair one !! The more linked into the eu we become the less of a democratic say we will have.

If it helps, it's not my quote. Mark Twain said it first.

[Barrykearley]

It's not helping - the idea of less democracy is making me drink more.....

Big business must be happy with the early indications of remain being true. But I'm more concerned the knock on far right knee jerk that will follow.

oh dear - Stalinism all over again .....

[andydclements]

28 minutes ago, march said:

Rumours reported on ITV that Farage is considering admitting defeat due to exit polls.

I don't suppose there's any chance that he has strong beliefs in following some ancient Japanese traditions when defeated.

[Barrykearley]

Pmsl !! I doubt it. 

Salmond did the decent thing "quote" and he gave up. Left it to a witch with a broomstick - best ask the Labour Party about the outcome

[Bibs]

 I doubt there's a single classroom in the USA which doesn't have a Stars and Stripes. UK sucks balls at times...