Brexit

[Iconic Ride]

[Andyww]

55 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Am I missing something here - President Hollande has said today   "Access to the single market cannot be guaranteed unless free movement of workers is respected."

Is this not just what we want? I.e. free movement of "workers" as opposed to "shirkers"?  So, if we agree that any one from the EU, who has a job confirmed, and the means to support themselves, can come here and be respected, we get access to the Single Market?  Wow. Job done. A result.

As that means we would not have to house them, their families or pay them benefits etc when they arrive, as, they would have a job and be able to support themselves.  OK. I'm stupid. What am I missing?

This is the way I personally would want things to work. But to be fair thats not what as promised by the Brexit campaign who favoured a points based system which applies equally worldwide. 

But the Brexit campaign were not really in a position to promise anything as they were not producing a manifesto as such.

Bearing that in mind a perfect compromise would be to allow free movement with strict rules, no benefits of any kind, anyone sleeping rough ejected etc. Quite a few people would be unhappy with this but thats the best way and I hope Mrs May and David Davies consider this. 

Another condition should be no kids. At the present time schools are being stretched to the limit. Our local council have just railroaded through the building of a primary school on a local park bypassing their own planning rules completely, which is entirely the result of immigration. All of this is costing taxpayers a fortune in extra teachers, buildings and even interpreters.  

[C8RKH]

I agree with 99% @andyww, but kids ok surely if working, as therefore paying taxes to support schools etc. We can't have it both ways surely. That would not be fair.

[Chillidoggy]

Hollande is panicking because he's under fire from Sarkozy and the centre right. He's sensed that May is not a pushover, and he's also full of shit.

He'll do what Merkel tells him in the end.

[C8RKH]

He'll hoist up the white flag and say "Ja, mein Liebling" or some other such action.  You're right, typical French President, lot's of wind - he should see Barry who has a nice new fix for that I believe. I must say I do get rather fed up at the rhetoric from France's politicians constantly telling us what we should and should not do. When I'm in France, with proper, you know, normal, French people, you just think the French Politico's are well, errr, from another planet and nothing like real French people who's company I enjoy as I find them welcoming, civil, polite and possessed of a certain je ne sais quoi   Especially the middle aged ladies!

[pete]

2 hours ago, Andyww said:

and even interpreters.  

they should be paid for by others not us as in other countries or get rid of them altogether

[C8RKH]

So, according to the BBC website right now, the Pound has tumbled as a result of new Brexit doom figures.  Meanwhile back in the real world it has lost 1.1% in early trading. Hmmm, if that is a tumble, I'd hate to see what a collapse, and a free fall might be!

[Barrykearley]

There was an interesting article of radio4 this morning regarding brexit.

92% of the economy is utterly unaffected by brexit one way or another according to the program. So in essence we are only worrying about 8% of the economy.

and in reality that 8% will only be affected by about 25% downturn at worst. 

Its all utter bull anyway. The programme did dismiss the tariff of 10% on exported uk built cars to Europe as 2/3 of all cars built in the uk go to the eu and we import more from the Eu anyway.

this fear needs to stop

[CHANGES]

BBC at it big time yesterday,   More doom and glooming..  Obviously in response to the previous optimistic reports.                           I believe it has now reached  a point where an official  investigation into the practices behind the reporting done by the BBC should be held..  There is definitely a conspiracy  behind these reports in an attempt to undermine the democratic vote with inflammatory  misleading reports.      Unfortunately the powers behind this, realise they can use this to influence public opinion and get away with it..  If the BBC has been infiltrated and coerced into doing this , it needs addressing....  It also makes you wonder if there is more to the Richard Kalergi plan than we are aware of.!!    If so be aware, be very aware...... 

Extract from the plan. 

It seems the Pan-European elite have a secret agenda that favored immigration into Europe as a way to socially engineer a cosmopolitan “quantity people" who would feel more like global citizens than nationals of European countries. The global elite could then easily herd these poor, degraded people, into accepting a United States of Europe and then a World Government. 

Every two years, the European elite honor this man by awarding the Coudenhove- Kalergi Prize to those who have excelled in promoting European integration.

Angela Merkel and Herman Van Rompuy are recent winners of this prize,

Scary stuff..!!!!!

Even more scary,  is the thought they can offer membership to this elite group for anyone who has position and influence to promote their agenda..  or alternatively discredit them using media profiling, then conjure a replacement with a willing party using the same media methods...   beware the power of the press,!!!"  

[Barrykearley]

^ exactly - this kalergi plan is bumbling along just nicely

im hoping the French wake up and want out - and I can't see it being too long before the Germans start grumbling.

Not really into conspiracy theories - but this really is happening and has been for my entire life !

the bbc - needs shutting down and/or privatising now

On a side note - has anyone noticed the massive swing on the soaps towards lesbian/gay/trans characters ? I don't wish my kids seeing this on mainstream tv at 7pm. It seems to me that every new character on this horrible junk is some sort of utterly misrepresented minority group. Maybe eastenders should just have one disabled transgender Asian Muslim cleric character and be done with it!! 

rant rant 

[Andyww]

The BBC is certainly biased but not half as scary as the German media. Anyone who is "in the know" in Germany will confirm there is mass press censorship going on, of a kind you would expect in an African dictatorship not an advanced Western country.

The system blew a fuse when the attacks in Cologne happened and it was no longer possible to suppress the reporting.  

[C8RKH]

I'm discussing with my wife the possibility of moving from the UK and Europe. Somewhere with more liberal views, a less controlled way of life, a place were the press is free to report FACTs.

I believe property in North Korea, Venezuala and Cuba is reasonable right now. Anyone know of any decent Lotus independents there?

[Andyww]

I have an apartment in Bangkok you can borrow.

Over there, foreigners are expected to behave and treat the country with respect. Anyone found overstaying their visa gets a huge fine based on number of days overstaying and above a certain limit a permanent ban is enforced. Only certain jobs are available to foreigners and anyone not already having a job must prove substantial wealth. Health insurance mandatory.

Foreigners are not allowed to own any land nor a majority stake in any business.

Health services excellent. Rarely any wait for any type of treatment.

The way it should be.

Only a couple of downsides: no effective law enforcement as the Police are useless and ineffective emergency services. These are the only two factors which we do here better than they do. Everything else is good. 

Despite all of these rules, Thai people are allowed to buy property in the UK and London property is even advertised on TV there. We know several Thai people who are in the UK who simply should not be here, and one of them is claiming housing benefit for a penthouse flat in North London despite having a house in Thailand. I have no idea how that works.

[C8RKH]

Yup. We are too soft. Even saw that the middle eastern guys who come to thrash their supercars where complaining through the recent clampdown that they were being treated like criminals - "We come here and spend money' they exclaimed.

Hmmm. Wonder what would happen if I walked around Riyadh or Dubai drunk and rowdy shouting "but I'm here to spend my money, you can tolerate that" - aye right. It's about time we started to treat everyone equally here. That is something we can, and shoukd do.

[C8RKH]

This is from the BBC of all places. Anyone still think a deal cannot be done?

Newsnight has learned that Mr Cameron telephoned the German chancellor to ask whether she would be willing to issue a statement with fellow EU leaders granting the UK concessions on free movement.

"Under the plan, thrashed out at a meeting in Downing Street, the president of France Francois Hollande, the European Council president Donald Tusk and the European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker would all put their names to the joint statement by EU leaders"

[pete]

Does it actually say they all agreed to the statement

[Barrykearley]

It's vague reporting at its best.

the doom and gloom - end of the world is nigh reporting they seem to strangely report differently

[Iconic Ride]

[C8RKH]

Another day, another attack by an immigrant / asylum seeker. How long will the EU, and in particular France and Germany, put up with this? I hate to say we told you so but, we did, they did not listen, and we decided to leave.

I know it is the small minority, but unfettered right to roam is also not a right to kill indiscriminately. We need checks and balances alongside compassion and support.

Germany machete attack: Syria migrant 'kills woman' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36879196

I'm glad we voted to leave. I may end up poorer but hopefully my family will be safer.

[C8RKH]

So Legarde from the IMF, those merchants of doom over Brexit, to face a court re a huge multi-hundred million payout to a millionaire French businessman. Now this reported in the Guradian I believe:

Plans to allow the United Kingdom an exemption from EU rules on freedom of movement for up to seven years while retaining access to the single market are being considered in European capitals as part of a potential deal on Brexit.

Senior British and EU sources have confirmed that despite strong initial resistance from French president François Hollande in talks with prime minister Theresa May last week, the idea of an emergency brake on the free movement of people that would go far further than the one David Cameron negotiated before the Brexit referendum is being examined

WTF. This given the continued attacks in France and Germany and the EU still pretends it does not know why Brexit was voted for?

I seriously think now other exits are on the cards.

Scptland will leave the UK to join a crumbling EU imho of course, but of course it won't be our fault when it goes belly up! Business as usual then I guess and blame the English / Westminster for that too as usual! 

[Andyww]

One by one the claims of the remainers are unravelling:

"We are a tiny island which is of little significance and nobody cares if we leave, we will be on our own"

Fact: The worlds leaders are worried about the impact of Brexit on world economies and are pushing for a positive outcome.

"We will never get single market access without free movement."

Fact: We will very likely get exactly that, because as in the first point, the UK economy cannot be allowed to fail. This is the point the remainers seemed to have failed to grasp. The UK is an important economy in world terms and its in the interests of world leaders to overrule the little EU tinpot dictators, whose days surely must be numbered.

 

[Barrykearley]

After the truely tragic incidents in Germany over the last few days - am I the only one not surprised by the medias insistence that none of this is terror linked ??

[Iconic Ride]

Depends on your definition of "linked." If you play "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" long enough, it's easy enough to find that link. 

The troubled young man in Munich seems to have been primarily (and possibly only) motivated by the desire to seek a twisted form of revenge brought about by being bullied at school (more than once, it appears). He did possess a book dealing with school shooting examples, and also newspaper articles about previous mass murder events. The examination of his computer, etc. may produce other influences. Remains to be seen at the moment.

[CHANGES]

1 hour ago, Iconic Ride said:

The troubled young man in Munich seems to have been primarily (and possibly only) motivated by the desire to seek a twisted form of revenge brought about by being bullied at school (more than once, it appears). He did possess a book dealing with school shooting examples, and also newspaper articles about previous mass murder events. The examination of his computer, etc. may produce other influences. Remains to be seen at the moment.

All depends when, where and how all this information happened to conveniently materialize to provide a different slant to distract the public from the truth......  We think the BBC has been taking liberties the German media seems to provide pure fiction... 

The latest was the BOMBING early this morning.... I saw the first reports at 4 am .  Almost immediately they say it was a suicide not an act of terror.... But facts were he was carrying a bomb in a back pack and trying to get into a music concert with 2500 souls attending. After failing to get in he detonated it outside injuring 12..    He was a failed asylum seeker from Syria who was allowed to stay and given accommodation..  By 6 am  German news media released....  This is all within a few hours, during  the panic while piecing together what was left of the Bomber in the middle of the night ......  That he was a depressed 26 year old who had mental problems was receiving psychiatric treatment and had tried to commit suicide before......  For the authorities then media to use the same type of excuse for another act of terror in such a short period shows little imagination...If they are not careful the German public may think they are being deceived...  Uhmmm  ..

It may have been more believable if they had waited a while before releasing such revelations.. or at least until information centers within the system had opened.. Or are the German authorities that efficient....   

[Andyww]

The Mail is reporting that he tried to get into the festival but was turned away as he had no ticket. This was clearly an attempt to kill many people.

Surely the German people must be getting fed up with this? I dont really understand them. I have not spend much time in Germany. 

They seem to have simply gone along with everything Merkel has done. Not only in the "open door" policy but other policies. For example she closed down nuclear power and implemented green energy charges which mean domestic energy is 3 times dearer than here. No protests. Bail out Greece using huge amounts of taxpayers money. No protests. The open door policy which was totally naive and stupid seemed to attract little opposition. They simply seem to go along with everything their leaders say. 

A rare exposure of the censorship was provided some time ago (before the Cologne attacks) on Radio 4 (surprisingly) when they spoke to an opposition campaigner who provided details of all the negative stories which had been suppressed in the media. It was quite scary.