Brexit

[CHANGES]

I see they are at it again today.....  This time big scare stories about the NHS  saying If there is a hard  Brexit then we may have trouble getting essential drugs needed to prevent diseases that could mean not being able to get treatment needed..   

Notice the IF's , the MAY's , and the COULD's , in that statement..    By including those words the statement , although inflammatory in its nature is not at all definitive..     This is a classic case of FALSE NEWS, again..   We have no evidence there will or will not be a hard Brexit.     Making this sort statement based on supposition is pure scare mongering to undermine the British people confidence in any and all procedures so the agitators can sacrifice democracy for their own selfish ends..  

If as much effort was put into a positive Brexit by the same people the EU would be bending over backwards for trade deals with the UK..    Its a classic case of elements of the remain side trying to weaken the position of the UK in negotiations by inflaming engineered comments on subjects creating  subliminal messages to the general public.   

We need someone to stand up and counter all these statements and expose them for what they really are...  The biggest problem is the Media (mainly the BBC)  are all on the remain side , so getting air time will be impossible..    

In September 1940  Germany wasted its time bombing London..  They should have just infiltrated the BBC in 1938..        

[Barrykearley]

The eu is falling apart. It’s a broken model completely.

the mass immigration both legal and illegal is causing chaos in major towns and cities on mainland Europe. All of that not reported on the BBC.

@CHANGES you must know the BBC are just lying massively. It’s propaganda on a widespread scale. 

In some ways - I’d like to see another bloody referendum to put this whole sorry episode to bed once and for all. Out means out and let’s get cracking.

[CHANGES]

24 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

in some ways - I’d like to see another bloody referendum to put this whole sorry episode to bed once and for all. Out means out and let’s get cracking.

 I understand your frustration , but that would be the worst thing that could happen....  It would set a precedence for those who want to DICTATE.   It would mean the end of democracy in this country .   We would have a situation that a minority with big opinions and public forum could overturn a majority vote by the people .     We voted out so we are going out,  how it gets done is the problem.   The sooner the agitators realise  their hindrance serves no purpose other than to expose their own selfish want the better..  The end result is , any negotiations will be weakened by their actions and the country as a whole will suffer. them included.     They are trying to get another referendum to get their own  way... There has been so much false news and scare stories that people through ignorance and media profiling could vote to stay in .  and that is so wrong...  We had the vote , Brexit was the result..  the country and all its subjects should stand by it..  any deviation from this democratic path would be to terrible to consider..     

 

[C8RKH]

I agree @CHANGES that we have had the vote and just move on.  It seems that democracy for some people is only democracy IF the result goes their way.  Pop on over to the playground to read the threads there - to be honest the comments from many of the disgruntled remainers are downright disgusting and they shout down anyone who might want to put anything positive forward about Brexit.  Totally blinkered and all about them - I will lose this; I will not be able to that....  There are a small number who are more reasonable.

I am a firm believer in that a country has the ability to talk itself into trouble. By that, what I mean is that if you constantly hear, read and see, across the news on any medium, that things are spiralling down, that we are all doomed, that the economy is tanking, then, what happens is that inadvertently our actions change to reflect the "story".  So, we believe the economy is tanking and jobs will be at risk so people rein in their spending.  This means there is less money circulating as we buy less. Consumer spend tanks and businesses report financial losses and jobs start to go.  Bingo, job done and we talked ourselves into recession.  This is exactly what is going on with Brexit.  The truth is that no one has any idea at this point in time what the deal will be. Nadda. Not the UK Government. Not the EU. Not the Press. Not the forumeer.  Hell, outside of a small circle we have no idea just how far advanced, or not, any deal truly is.

However, read between the lines and the consistent message is that 80%+ of the "deal" is agreed.  The UK has made it clear it is prepared to pay to stay in the common market / customs zone. We have made it clear that on many aspects such as standards for goods, we are willing to mirror the standards from the EU to avoid trading issues on both sides.  We have also stated, quite clearly that EU citizens already in the UK will be allowed to stay with minimal fuss and expense.  Been here for 5 years, you can get citizenship (so can become a dual national - note, not all EU countries allow that freedom!). Been here for less than 5 then you can continue to stay and after 5 years apply for citizenship.  So, to me, that is pretty clear. If you are from the EU, working here, no change in your circumstances and you can continue to fill your boots and enjoy your current life.  Access to benefits, healthcare etc. is all assured as it is now.  NOTE:  The EU is yet to declare what their position is for UK citizens in the EU. Indeed, even now under reciprocal agreements in countries like Spain getting access to free medical care whilst say on holiday, let alone living there, is a lottery as the Spanish play by their own rules and ignore the EU agreements anyway.

To my mind, the UK has tried, rather naively and in a chaotic way, to negotiate in a fair manner with the EU. The problem is the EU has behaved in many ways in an underhand and untruthful manner. Leaking of private meeting and dinner discussions to undermine our leaders positions. Lack of clarity from their side on what they want or need. Despite having an EU negotiating team speaking on behalf of the EU states with an agreed common agenda, we have had the French, Spanish, Italian, German, Italian, Maltese and other government ministers all putting their tuppenth in, to protect or promote their own states interests, when they are supposed to be in unison as one block with a common negotiating position that is centred around the EU team. Look at Spain and Gibraltar. What a farce.  If I was prime minister right now I would send what little Navy we have left to Gibraltar and invest in a new naval port there to guarantee local jobs and send a huge two fingered salute to Madrid.  Any Spanish navy, coastguard or fishing vessel that violated Gibraltar's sovereign waters would be boarded, impounded, and then sold with the proceeds being used to part fund the local naval base. Firm. Fair. And a clear message. Again, if I was prime minister we would be building coastal defence frigates in Portsmouth, Hull, Belfast and Newcastle.  Local jobs for local people and these frigates would be used post Brexit to seize any and all unlawfully fishing EU boats from our our waters.  You want out fish. Fine. You buy them from us and we sell them to you. Easy and fair.  Support Peterhead, Grimsby, Fleetwood and other traditional fishing centres and industries.  i do believe in global trade, but you protect what natural resources you have and if you manage them prudently you protect and preserve livelihoods and way of lives. Whole communities in fact. It's a damn shame our government and politicians are so far removed they do not understand this.  Some might say I am putting forward a vision of "Fortress Britain". I'd counter that with a vision of "Britain First" and that means everyone and anyone who lives here, regardless of their nationality, creed, origin, etc.  Put your own house in order then help your neighbours to do the same. isolationism is a recipe for disaster.

I do believe that if the BBC and others, had focused more on the behaviour of the EU in these negotiations people would have seen just how the cards were being stacked up against us and maybe got behind our move for a fair, negotiated settlement. Instead, we have had the constant carping and distractionary tactics so that we have been in effect fighting the battle on two fronts, at home and abroad.  I do find it actually quite disgraceful that the British Broadcasting Company has behaved in this almost treasonous way in my very humble opinion.

I do believe we will get a deal.  Trade, commerce and finance is too interlinked on a global scale to allow a true "no deal" scenario. Think I am talking rubbish? Well, answer me this, How can the EU and indeed the world allow a significant market like the UK to fail?  Look at the international fall out and the bailouts that have been handed out to support much less significant economies (I am not slighting the people of these countries but referring to the international size of their trading) like Ireland, Greece and others.  Countries whether in the EU or not will not fall if the UK economy fails. However, their companies and their workers who rely on goods and services consumed in the UK will be severely impacted.  Jobs and tax revenues will be lost in significant numbers and this will be a short term (as these companies will find new markets) but sharp and harsh shock to their economies.  This will in turn impact the voters in their countries and maybe we will see change as a result.

So, project Fear is at it again. We'll have no medicines and drugs. Ha, I pissed myself laughing. the Pharma and medical trade is the most ruthless and money centric in the world. They would sell their children and their children's children if it made them money. They will always find a way to sell to us. Especially as unlike a lot of places in this world, we ALWAYS pay our bills. It is the British way.

So, bring it on.  Let's see what really happens. i for one will not be downbeat. We will re-invent ourselves and we will find a way. it is what we do. It is what we have always done. Why do we think we cannot do it again?  The opportunities are endless, we just need to have the courage to step out and grab them. What is done is done. it is in the past. Move on. Go forward. Rebuild. It's still a great place to live with freedom of speech. Good laws and a police force you can trust (unlike some European countries). Good healthcare. A decent outlook on life. And some of the best architecture and landscapes in the world.

Always proud to be British. We will find a way. we will overcome. We always do.

Haven't had a good rant for ages. Feel much better now. And lunch at the Oxo Tower restaurant to look forward to today. What a day.... :)

 

[Bassman]

"Always proud to be British. We will find a way. we will overcome. We always do."

Totally agree - v well written piece. Trade and pragmatism will always overcome. Lets talk UK up not down. BBC reporting is sloppy and no longer to be trusted.

 

[PaulCP]

The BBC drags everything down with their unreliable, lazy and biased reporting.

Brexit and the NHS are just 2 of the prime ongoing examples and they got their just deserts with the Cliff Richard incident.

What really bugs me is that they used license & tax payers money to defend the indefensible, time to stop their unwarranted cash support and make them totally independent 

 

[march]

Just watched the BBC News at one - it started with an interview with one of our local MP's, Ben Bradshaw, stating that we are likely to run out of food, drugs, etc.. if we do not have another vote! 

Perhaps he failed Geography at school or missed the day the pupils were taught about the rest of the world. I think he should take a look at the UK Pharmaceutical industry - it's quite big! 

[Colin P]

@C8RKH I hate it when you talk sense 

Now, "the fishwife/old trout/ugly crankie/vicious witch" and Scotland having their own deal.................. go!

[PaulCP]

3 hours ago, march said:

Just watched the BBC News at one - it started with an interview with one of our local MP's, Ben Bradshaw, stating that we are likely to run out of food, drugs, etc.. if we do not have another vote! 

Perhaps he failed Geography at school or missed the day the pupils were taught about the rest of the world. I think he should take a look at the UK Pharmaceutical industry - it's quite big! 

Bigger question though is why the interviewer didn’t challenge him and ask him to explain how and why.

Just don’t have any proper journalists these days and the BBC probably prompted the remarks in their so called “impartial” way 

[pete]

He is constantly on about it on twitter

https://mobile.twitter.com/BenPBradshaw?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

[Barrykearley]

The major concern must be the power stations - these are owned by the French and Germans. No deal will probably mean all our power will go off.

at least we won’t have to listen to the shite the bbc spew out

[pete]

With comments like that you could get a job with the bbc

[C8RKH]

52 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

The major concern must be the power stations - these are owned by the French and Germans. No deal will probably mean all our power will go off.

at least we won’t have to listen to the shite the bbc spew out

Nope. What it means Barry if the pound tanks is that Iberdrola, EDF and others see a massive cut in the dividend (rape of the UK energy consumer) that they are take out of the UK back to France, Spain and Germany.  You see, the pound tanking is good for our exports and the FTSE 100 where most of their earnings are in foreign currency.The opposite is therefore true for the European companies that export our cash!   Hahahahaha - oh how I feel so not sorry for them...

5 hours ago, Colin P said:

@C8RKH I hate it when you talk sense 

Now, "the fishwife/old trout/ugly crankie/vicious witch" and Scotland having their own deal.................. go!

Now that is a whole new thread on its own Colin you naughty chap!  I've had a great lunch out and a couple of bottles of wine with ex colleagues tonight so not sure how coherent I will be.

The main difference with Scotland is that with Independence we have no currency of our own.  The rest of the UK (rUK) can allow us to keep on using the GBP, however, we will have no control over rUK fiscal policy so in essence we will still be, financially at the beck and call of the rUK or as Sturgeon knows it, Westminster and the BoE.  Doesn't matter that Salmond campaigned last time about it being "our pound", the fact is, it isn't and we can either have a formal currency union (agreed terms with the BoE and rUK) or an informal one where we choose to use the pound and have no say in the policy etc.  End of. Anything else spouted is, as we say in Scotland, pure pish (that by the way, is the best word in common use in the uk!).

Also, 75%+ of our exports are to England. So straight away we alienate our biggest market by far, far and far!  How clever is that and so much more dumb than anything Brexit.

Next, the argument will be, well, fook the rUK, an independent Scotland will just join the EU easy peasy.  Hah. What utter bollocks again.  The way Spain dealt with the Catalans with NO INTERVENTION or safeguarding of human rights shows just how likely it is that the EU will allow Scotland in. And all 27 EU states will need to say yes.  So, far, based on the last vote period, Belgium; Germany; Spain, Italy all gave a defacto "no chance" response.  Salmond said he had a letter from the EU saying "welcome" but that has been subsequently been found out, I believe in my humblest of knowledge, to be a fabricated lie. So Scotland will be outside of the EU and alienated from its neighbour who takes 75%+ of its exports.  Yes. that is really going to work.

So, I'll stop there as my wine is getting warm.  I'm all for Scotland having a clear and proud identity. But really, standing alone in a big world as a nation of 5m with a high proportion of work shy bastards who love free money and benefits?  Yeah, pure dead brilliant strategy that.  Don't get me wrong. The vast majority of people in Scotland are decent, hard working, entrepreneurial people. But they are paddling a canoe that is being slowed by a lot of dead weight.

Sorry. This is not a PC posting due to the time of day and a few glasses of wine.  However, i welcome an open and honest debate with anyone on this, but maybe needs a separate thread.

Scotland, not Yorkshire, is god's own country (closely challenged by the IoM that only loses out by its size). i truly believe that. It is a beautiful place full of great people.  But time has moved on and history is behind us.  Remember, it was a Scottish king on the throne of England that unified Britain.  It was a failed and over ambitious Scottish financial growth scheme (no, the Darian project not the Royal Bank of Scotland) that led to the political union of the parliaments.  It has served all the nations of Britain well through its history and I do not remember any of the countries involved (England, Scotland, Wales) complaining at the profits that flowed into their capitals and cities as a result of the plunder from the British Empire.

Right. Back to the bar. Priorities and all that..... 

[Barrykearley]

8 hours ago, pete said:

With comments like that you could get a job with the bbc

Fed up with it all now. BBC, Media and political fools utterly full of shite. Let’s get out and crack on. 

Hopefully it will be the start of the end of the EU

[Andyww]

The BBC and other commentators seem to be deliberately misunderstanding how tariffs work.

All of the products which are supposedly going to be more expensive/in short supply, the UK simply has to set the tariff to zero. WTO rules allow this as long as it applies to all countries. 

Any products which we need to protect our own industry, set the tariff higher up to the WTO max. Simple.

Another point they deliberately ignore is the money raised by tariffs doesnt simply disappear. Its essentially a tax. It could for example be used for the NHS.

[C8RKH]

I don't wish for the end of the EU. I'd like it to focus on building wealth in the region through the promotion of fair and economic trade.  Oh, that would be the common market.

The rest of the stuff that it has decided to interfere in is what I'd like to see end.

[Barrykearley]

I’d very much like to see the end of the EU parliament and all the hopeless, fat, overpaid slathered Eurocrats  

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, Barrykearley said:

I’d very much like to see the end of the EU parliament and all the hopeless, fat, overpaid slathered Eurocrats  

I agree. The Commissioners are worse and not elected by the people. The whole behemoth that is Brussels is because of this bloated structure. Get back to trade and get rid of these leeches.

[Andyww]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

I don't wish for the end of the EU. I'd like it to focus on building wealth in the region through the promotion of fair and economic trade.  Oh, that would be the common market.

The rest of the stuff that it has decided to interfere in is what I'd like to see end.

Exactly and thats how other such organisations are structured, namely NAFTA and ASEAN. None of the countries which are members of these would ever entertain anything like the loss of sovreignty of the EU.

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, Andyww said:

Exactly and thats how other such organisations are structured, namely NAFTA and ASEAN. None of the countries which are members of these would ever entertain anything like the loss of sovreignty of the EU.

Classic example of "scope creep" from the Head Office that has not been "checked".  It's funny but the UK is not alone in not liking the direction of the EU Government State.  Hungary and Poland will kick back and say No.  Switzerland has already said "sod off" to any more integration and has reined back.  The Scandics are uncomfortable but don't want to put their trade at risk so are staying on the fence.  If Italy goes too far right then they will revolt too.

The uncomfortable thing is that the EU needs the UK. In many cases it was the veto of the UK that has provided a check and balance to Brussels and it was the UK that has rallied allies in Poland, Hungary, Sweden and Norway to keep some of the more excessive moves from Brussels at bay.

Without the UK, there is the possibility that the fanatics in Brussels will seize an opportunity to push through closer integration and more central control which eventually will cause discontent and fallout in the EU.

So, whilst I fear the UK will get a sub optimal Brexit deal, the longer term fear is for the ability of the EU Federal State to survive the next 10 years without significant change and upheavel.

The loss of UK funding will hurt the developing economies in the East of Europe as the EU will have less to dole out.  Germany, France and Italy will be expected to plug the gap. Hmmmm. Interesting the next 10 years be will - as Yoda would say.

 

[Barrykearley]

Ask about the chaos in Sweden on the streets.

search google - you won’t find any truth in the uk media

[Andyww]

There are also things going on in Germany which are supressed by the German press.

[SFO]

if the UK was a person, Brexit is like a very bad cold. Not fatal, but completely doable. And we will recover.

the press makes it sound like cancer

[Barrykearley]

If the uk was a person - brexit is like having a winning lottery ticket in your pocket and not knowing

[mayevora]