Fire damaged Excel SA

[exeterjeep]

1 minute ago, LOTUSMAN33 said:

Hi Pete

I take it this is detailed in the manual? Must admit I have done countless engine removals but never an auto.

So definitely engine/box out together then or is safer with the auto to remove the engine first then drop the box as it need some serious tipping to come out as an unit.

I had a quick look and thought taking the engine out seemed simple enough as loads of room compared to the early esprit’s. I actually just took the engine out the top in my S1 esprit just to try it for a change instead of dropping the assembly out the bottom.

I will take advice though as not really familiar with the Excel and no idea about auto boxes.

Dave  

Dave, have you got the excel workshop manual????   

Keith

[LOTUSMAN33]

No I don’t Keith, actually I don’t recall having one when I owned this one either.

36 minutes ago, exeterjeep said:

Dave, have you got the excel workshop manual????   

Keith

[EXCEL V8]

Hi Dave

Sorry - by tipping I meant tipping the gearbox in relation to the torque converter during disassembly, not just tipping in relation to vertical.  The gearbox must be removed along with the engine.  At least you don't get oil pouring from the propshaft end of the gearbox like you do with the W58 if you forget to drain it first!!

Yes - the process is covered reasonably well in the service notes - section FC.

Pete

[exeterjeep]

42 minutes ago, EXCEL V8 said:

Yes - the process is covered reasonably well in the service notes - section FC.

I've sent Dave pages from the excel manual.

[LOTUSMAN33]

Thanks guys, I called Steve at SJ today and they stripped the car down to do the insurance assessment which came in at around £9k thus writing if off.

I checked out what was in the boot today…

Everything is disconnected to remove the engine including the torque converter bolts accessed through the starter motor hole so I asked Steve again who confirmed he pulled the engine out so it was only placed back in to hand the car over to the insurance. Unfortunately it looks like it was removed separately to the box.

Rather amazingly is the distributor actually looks fine and freely rotates so just the electronic module is ruined (can I replace that?)

I do hate buying cars in bits as I have no idea where all those fastenings have come from or anything which may be missing. It’s not a game changer just a frustration.

Its a shame as if it hadn’t been stripped it could have been returned to the road quite quickly now it’s going to mean pulling it all apart again.

This car could quickly become uneconomical as it needs four tyres, brakes are due, loads of parts and paintwork so I will be doing this on a budget looking for secondhand parts.

Oh yeah I now have a plunge pool inside on the drivers side after last nights downpour which is why I let my last one go as I could never get to the bottom of it after doing door seals, grommets and penetrations. This car does have an after market door seal not mitred well in the corner though. 
Dave  

[exeterjeep]

Wow, quite an update, Steve at SJ must have known the previous owner them Insurance costs are always high as they are not supposed to use s/h parts, (which is why one of my mg zr's was written off. )

Steve must have prepared a list, can you get a copy as a starting point to see what he thought was required. Also this may help in determining how damaged the engine is.

Can't recall any of my excels turning in a swimming pool in the rain. Did have a leak from the front well / intake between the wipers on my elite s2, due to a blocked drain.

[LOTUSMAN33]

I did ask Steve and he searched for the list as it would of been useful knowing I would buy a high percentage of parts from him like hoses, cables, intake items etc but he couldn’t locate it. He can’t give me the PO details though and I wouldn’t ask due to data protection which is why they no longer list it on the V5.

The water is a pain but something to investigate later.

This looks expensive mind 😬

I priced up just the double vacuum elbows on the dash which came to over £100 😬, mind I can make these up easily so not an issue.

Dave  

 

[exeterjeep]

The 9k estimate must also have included labour charges and VAT?

So if you are doing it for 'free', then it should be quite  a lot less for the parts?

[LOTUSMAN33]

Yes that would be all in Keith and tbh I wouldn’t sort lots of the stuff like blistering on the inner wing, the scorched master cylinder reservoir etc as we would only use it as a cheap classic.

That intake trunking isn’t available and the bonnet is like hens teeth after checking with the usual suppliers today so it’s never going to be factory fresh again without spending a fair whack.

Easy fix to tidy up

This is non urgent as not leaking and cap comes off fine so just cosmetic, way to play this car is the long game improving over time.

Its not all bad as the chassis is good, door beams fine along with window frames.

Interior is okay but drivers seat is getting tired and dry with splits.

The roof is blistered like my celebration model went, the cars been painted before as well which is shiny and tidy but not a fantastic job hence the roof.

The interior is missing the fuse cover which is leather and part of the dash, both wood panels and the plastic switch panel along with the front fog switch itself. I have sourced the wood and switch panels which will tidy the inside. I used to have a spare fuse panel cover in the loft so need to search as have a feeling I ditched it years ago.

I’m fighting not breaking it so will pull the engine, clean it all up and decide it’s fate after, I may still take the HC engine for my Esprit and just put the 907 in it and use as a everyday hack for the wife to use along with everyday fun.

Dave  

[LOTUSMAN33]

Now under cover, this was a fully fitted cover for my Esprit but it seems to fit the excel ok with a little stretch, I bailed out 1/2 bucket of water. 
Tomorrow I will remove the drivers side foot carpets and underlay until I get time to fix the issue although it’s looking like the door seal.

[Tony D]

I've just spent a good part of last winter stopping water getting into my Excel. 

The wiper spindle was a major contributor (just needed a bit of silicon and tightening fully), then the door seals - but not the rubber to door. Water can run into the U that clips to the body, then it tracks through the leather like a sponge. Take the carpets and sound proofing out (you'll be amazed how much water they hold. Then take the door seals off and removed the leather particularly up the B post and along the door bottom edge. If you then refit even the old door seal, you'll probably find a drastic reduction in the leak. 

Other contributors can be the door electrical cable into the body, the hinge mounting bolts and the speedo cable, but in my experience, these areas are much less significant. 

Tony 

[LOTUSMAN33]

Thanks Tony, that’s very useful information, I’ll replace the seals and trim the leather.

I looked at the wiper spindle today and the sealant looks dried out with a tiny amount of movement.

Dave  

[exeterjeep]

3 hours ago, LOTUSMAN33 said:

bailed out 1/2 bucket of water

That's a lot more than I have ever had, must be a noticeable place leaking,

[LOTUSMAN33]

6 hours ago, exeterjeep said:

That's a lot more than I have ever had, must be a noticeable place leaking,

There was lots more but it’s all in the underlay, it was dry when it arrived as one of the first things I checked after the last Excel I had.

It was a low mileage very clean celebration model.

Dave  

 

[exeterjeep]

1 hour ago, LOTUSMAN33 said:

It was a low mileage very clean celebration model.

Nice car, I never owned one of the celebration models.

[LOTUSMAN33]

The engine is out with no issues, I know you aren’t meant to split them but as SJ had already done this very thing and it was only held on two bolts I did the repeat operation (Shoot me now!)

In fairness I supported the box, took the weight of the engine and it just slid off with no force whatsoever, I immediately supported the torque converter and will make a holding strap arrangement this week. The car was tilted back on a sloping drive with the addition of the front raised on ramps. My trouble was I couldn’t get far enough back to disconnect the propshaft safely, my other two sets of ramps and axle stands are being used on the Esprit. My intention was follow the advice and do as an unit but had to improvise, if it didn’t part smoothly I was going to replace the bolts and rethink.

The auto box is still full of fluid and the cooler is still attached along with the cable, mount and propshaft. I don’t think I can replace the engine this way so  it will be fitted back complete. Next challenge is safely lifting the back on a sloping driveway 😬 (I have a plan as Mr Caine once stated 🙂)so I can carefully drop the auto box. 

Next task is to transfer everything over to my Eclat engine after I give it a good refresh and set the valve clearances following a good head off inspection. 
The car was extinguished with dry powder I think as everting has a bluish powder coating stuck to the grime. The engine bay will be getting a good clean up now as well. 
I have started compiling a list of new items I need before sourcing anything else secondhand, it’s mostly cables, hoses and consumables.

I have to rethink some of the plumbing as the 907 engine has different water outlets on the head and won’t have the sensor. SJ sell the parts to fix the dizzy including the harness which is good.

If all else fails I will break it or sell as a rolling chassis but at this stage I fancy getting it going again and using as a everyday hack. Definitely need to sort the water ingress first.

I think I will remove or leave the R12 A/C system disconnected as no doubt it had failed years ago anyway and don’t want the expense of converting to R134a.

Dave  
 

[exeterjeep]

19 minutes ago, LOTUSMAN33 said:

I think I will remove or leave the R12 A/C system disconnected as no doubt it had failed years ago anyway and don’t want the expense of converting to R134a.

I think a lot of cars of this age the a/c does not work. I recall my elite s2 that I bought over 25 years ago the a/c had been removed.

 

I think you have made good progress, I certainly would not undertake this as my mechanical knowledge is a bit lacking.

Although I am in the middle of my 5th head gasket change on a ZR - which should only take 4 hours. First one I did 8 years ago took a long time. The ZR only passed its MOT on Monday.

I remember going to a club lotus seminar in Hertfordshire  30+ years ago - run by an ex Lotus engineer, who said that the record for getting a 907 engine out was under 9 mins?? 

[LOTUSMAN33]

9 mins, bloody hell that was unbelievable, I would say it must have been a newish or new car without the rust factor added 😁

 

[LOTUSMAN33]

Engine now cleaned and drive plate removed (Yes crank pulley bolt released first).

Took the valve clearances and mostly in spec but have one on the inlet a tight 0.005” and several on the Exhaust side at 0.009” so I will be removing the cam carriers and try to get them all in the upper range (I have loads of shims from over the years).

Now for the first of the issues

912 HC engine

907 engine with a badly fitted needle bearing or a failed circlip in the gearbox which has driven it into the crank. (Clutch was seized to the flywheel so will be skimmed before use.

As can be seen the machining of the crankshafts is different but the smaller diameter in the lower photo is correct.

So not to give up I’m going to machine an insert which will be shrunk in with a little Loctite 601 retainer with the correct diameter for the needle bearing. I may even add a grub screw for belt and braces although shouldn’t need it. This will sort the engine for the Esprit but now I have the issue with the 907 which is going in the Excel.

Plan is to fit a cross drilled Esprit crank in the Eclat engine getting the recess machined in to match the HC engine I removed.

Both engines need a new crank case cover Gaco seal, the 907 has been pressed too far in anyway.

At least the 907 engine will get a new set of shells now 🙂

TBC 

Dave  

 

[exeterjeep]

More great progress....

Would the SA auto box actually fit on the end of the 907, as that was one thing you were considering..

This morning managed to spend over an hour getting the 7 nuts on the inlet manifold of the ZR

[LOTUSMAN33]

Well done on the inlet, jobs like that are just frustrating and rewarding at the same time.

Yes the 907 will fit the SA once the crankshaft has some machining undertaken. I took loads of measurements today and trial fitted the drive plate.

Dave  

[exeterjeep]

3 minutes ago, LOTUSMAN33 said:

Yes the 907 will fit the SA once the crankshaft has some machining undertaken. I took loads of measurements today and trial fitted the drive plate.

Well I suppose that is good news for your original plan of using the HC engine in the esprit. And then don't tell the wife you don't think she needs the more powerful engine...

[LOTUSMAN33]

Lol she wouldn’t know or care, if asked what size the engine it is she would probably say big enough to fit under that bonnet! 😁

 

[Painterdave]

On 30/07/2021 at 19:25, LOTUSMAN33 said:

Thanks guys, I called Steve at SJ today and they stripped the car down to do the insurance assessment which came in at around £9k thus writing if off.

I checked out what was in the boot today…

Everything is disconnected to remove the engine including the torque converter bolts accessed through the starter motor hole so I asked Steve again who confirmed he pulled the engine out so it was only placed back in to hand the car over to the insurance. Unfortunately it looks like it was removed separately to the box.

Rather amazingly is the distributor actually looks fine and freely rotates so just the electronic module is ruined (can I replace that?)

I do hate buying cars in bits as I have no idea where all those fastenings have come from or anything which may be missing. It’s not a game changer just a frustration.

Its a shame as if it hadn’t been stripped it could have been returned to the road quite quickly now it’s going to mean pulling it all apart again.

This car could quickly become uneconomical as it needs four tyres, brakes are due, loads of parts and paintwork so I will be doing this on a budget looking for secondhand parts.

Oh yeah I now have a plunge pool inside on the drivers side after last nights downpour which is why I let my last one go as I could never get to the bottom of it after doing door seals, grommets and penetrations. This car does have an after market door seal not mitred well in the corner though. 
Dave  

If you did break it I would be interested in the interior

Just now, Painterdave said:

If you did break it I would be interested in the interior

Thanks Dave painterdave

[tom kilner]

On 30/07/2021 at 19:51, LOTUSMAN33 said:

I did ask Steve and he searched for the list but he couldn’t locate it.

Dave  

 

He will have emailed it to the insurance company so there's a copy in his outbox.

I frequently locate old quotes and valuations by looking there, cos I can never remember which folder I saved then in 🤯