Norfolk, Suffolk, Cambs and N.Essex owners

[Backmarker]

Owen,

That looks an excellent product.

If you're in Nottingham this weekend why not come and join NMEG on Sunday? Llangollen to Ironbridge. Should be fun.

Graham.

[Kimbers]

I would hope all other members of AEG will be attending my Birthday. Woe betide anyone who misses it who lives in Norwich!

[Bibs]

Owen, as per my PM's to you which you can't have seen I'd really appreciate it if you used the forum website address on any promotional material.

If people see your cars, they'll google AEG and find domestic appliances. It's simple marketing for AEG and also LEF, the website which AEG is a part of.

Ta.

[OwenGT3]

Owen, as per my PM's to you which you can't have read I'd really appreciate it if you used the forum website address on any promotional material.

If people see your cars, they'll google AEG and find domestic appliances. It's simple marketing for AEG and also LEF, the website which AEG is a part of.

Ta.

Hi,

Did read PM. These are just a quick thing, the logo's to go in tax disc holders, I will be designing a window strip sticker incorporating the LEF name. Kimbers has mentioned at our first meet if we need printed sticker material done to he's our man! As with the t-shirt design, LEF will get added to the design layout. When we get some proper logo stickers made we can add text accordingly around the edge of the logo.

Owen.

[Nifty]

Permission to disagree Bibs ?

Inclusion of the web address will completely spoil the design.

Too many web addresses plastered everywhere these days for no real benefit.

It's a sign of membership of the Anglian Esprit Group, not an advertsing hoarding.

Anyone outside of the Lotus fraternity is more likely to google AGE.

However, should someone google Anglian Esprit Group they will arrive here (I'll go and test that theory in a minute!!).

I say leave it as it is and lets have an LEF/LEW badge somewhere else on the car.

Afterall, we don't see Proton mentioned on Lotus badges

Edited August 24, 2007 by Nifty

[OwenGT3]

Owen,

That looks an excellent product.

If you're in Nottingham this weekend why not come and join NMEG on Sunday? Llangollen to Ironbridge. Should be fun.

Graham.

Hi,

Sorry can't, visiting relatives that I haven't seen for ages, so a lot of going out socialising with them over the w/e. My car will spend most of the time in their drive once we are there, they have the four seater car to take the wife and I out!

You'll see me in Feruary!

Owen.

[Nifty]

Well my experiment failed, it brought up nothing relevant !!

Interesting to note that googling NMEG found the North Manchester Enterprise Group, though the real NMEG did then feature towards the bottom of the page .. a link to some pictures of a meet at RAF Cosford.

[Bibs]

I'm all for disagreement, it's the way to successful resolution.

Any google search for Anglia Esprit will struggle to reach LEF, the factory is based in the region and will have the lions share of any returned results I would have thought. Another badge just for LEF would turn your car more into an advertising hoarding in my opinion, how many stickers will you tolerate and Chapman always said it something is going to be a part of the car, it should fulfil 2 functions, think of the weight saving!?

My reasoning is that if people see the cars and have an interest in finding out more there is little reason not to give them somewhere to go. The address doesn't have to be big, in fact it can be very small along the circumference of the badge as those with interest will be close enough to see it. People expect information nowadays and having something which leads to nothing would personally frustrate me.

There are still an awful lot of Esprit owners who don't know of LEF. If you didn't, saw 10 Esprit's in a car park and couldn't find the owners in a busy pub/car show/insert event here and but had a look at the cars and found a web address, wouldn't you be online as soon as you got home?

To move LEF forwards, constant promotion is essential. We didn't get to the size we are passively and won't grow any bigger the same. Why shoot yourself in the foot when you can just as easily be doing yourself a favour?

[OwenGT3]

Permission to disagree Bibs ?

Inclusion of the web address will completely spoil the design.

Too many web addresses plastered everywhere these days for no real benefit.

It's a sign of membership of the Anglian Esprit Group, not an advertising hoarding.

Anyone outside of the Lotus fraternity is more likely to Google AGE.

However, should someone Google Anglian Esprit Group they will arrive here (I'll go and test that theory in a minute!!).

I say leave it as it is and lets have an LEF/LEW badge somewhere else on the car.

After all, we don't see Proton mentioned on Lotus badges

Hi,

The AEG design has been agreed by the forming AEG members. I will design a window strip sticker and logo with added text recognising the LEF, and then show the AEG group for approval. I don't mind stickers with added information promoting LEF, but I also don't see a problem with our logo on it's own. The logo's produced tonight are a 'quick fix' until we get some proper ones made and I have time to design them.

Owen

[Nifty]

Bibs,

I appreciate your remarks and realise that you were the founder of this site, as I understand it.

However, I don't see a need to promote the site or move it on unless their is a financial reason for it (and you haven't asked me for any money yet, though I would happily pay a reasonable sum for access to this site).

The cars promote themselves and gain someones interest, if they are sufficiently interested then they will seek out the owners or trawl the web to find more .. afterall, you didn't gain my "membership" here through any advertising, I found you .. and am jolly glad I did

Perhaps it's just me being grumpy (the MSA have failed to deliver my licence in good time and if it doesn't arrive in the post tomorrow then I face a

Edited August 25, 2007 by Nifty

[Bibs]

I'm pleased to say that the the general consensus of opinion as I understand it would not agree with you then.

As I remember in a recent thread you were after more ways to promotion the AEG group. Do you not think that giving people information about it is a good idea? I cannot re-educate the nations children and ban calculators from exams I'm afraid but I can do my best to unite the worlds' Esprit community. If this site thought that there was no need to promote itself, we'd still have about 5 members and AEG most certainly would not exist nor would it have a place to organise or promote itself with such success and ease.

There are many reasons to wish a site to be successful and financial ones are not the only ones, in fact that is very far from the crux of the matter. LEF is owned by a non-profit company I own, any monies we receive are spent on people like yourself who are members of LEF, for their benefit.

Please don't think you need to pacify me, I believe that is patronising to me and not pleasant to hear. I am trying to help you to help me to help you, if you don't wish to have any of the assistance I can offer then the best of luck to you and your group but please don't be offended if any future requests you may have for my help fall on deaf ears.

[Tentenths]

C'mon chaps, be nice

Bearing in mind that we all met and AEG was subsequently conceived/formed as a direct result of our membership of LEF, the two groups are now inextricably linked... for all the right reasons So there really can be no argument - LEF's url should appear on any AEG promotional material.

Owen has already acknowledged this and I'm sure that with his undoubted graphic design skills he'll be able to incorporate the LEF address in the AEG logo without taking anything away from the original design. Then, if a member of the public sees one of our cars and wants to learn more about us and/or the cars they'll know exactly where to look... which can only be to everyone's benefit.

Nifty, if it's any consolation I too had a crap day yesterday - everything I touched seemed to go wrong Went out with some friends for an excellent Italian meal last night, ate far too much, drank even more, last to leave the restaurant and couldn't even see the PC when I got home let alone type anything - but at least the world seemed a slightly better place

Onwards and upwards people!

[Nifty]

Bibs,

Calm down dear fellow .. whilst I stand by my remarks with regard to the fact that there is too much "signage/advertising pollution" in this world of ours, the other remarks were rather tongue in cheek, which those like James and Alex, who have met me, will probably testify to.

My reference to the standard of education was implying that people aren't able (or children aren't taught) to find things out for themselves.

There was certainly nothing patronising about my sticker remark, it was a Basil Fawltyesque joking quip .. hence the smilie after it

I certainly would have no problem with this site being a profit making concern for you provding that was apparently clear.

I'm all in favour of the site and think it is a not only a marvellous resource but is also very well laid out.

Subsequent to my post above regarding membership payment I have received at least one PM informing me that there is actually a voluntary donation scheme and I will certainly be having a look.

Owen, as per my PM's to you which you can't have seen I'd really appreciate it if you used the forum website address on any promotional material.

This is where we fundamentally disagree, as far as I'm concerned these stickers are not promotional material but a "badge of membership/affiliation" to AEG.

I don't have any inherent problem with LEF appearing on other stuff but I just think it would spoil the simplicity of those round stickers/ tax discs that Owen produced.

Not everything in this world has to be direct advertising.

Also, personally I have not sort to promote AEG any further. In my mind it should grow organically (in business parlance) through word of mouth and meeting at events etc. and people finding this site.

I certainly disagreed, though I didn't say so at the time, when Simon posted a list of known Anglian people who hadn't posted to say they'd like to join in the fun. I don't think this is the correct way to go about it at all. If they've seen the post but chosen not to comment or join in then that is their choice, they shouldn't be harrassed into complying. If they haven't seen the post then listing their names will make no difference at all.

I went along to the inaugral AEG meeting because I got the impression from posts on here that the others attending were of a similar nature to myself and fortunately it turned out to be right. I shall be more than happy to continue to meet up and get involved with wider LEF events etc for the same reason.

I have attended Club Lotus meetings and East Anglian Lotus Club meetings and found both groups to be generally populated by persons of quite different character, whilst also enthusiasts of the marque. I shall not be making a habit of frequenting their meetings.

I am a member of Club Lotus simply for the insurance discount this offered me. I did look at the LEW Club discounted insurance but got it cheaper elsewhere. Having subsequently got involved with LEF I would say that I will probably consider the LEW Club scheme again next year and providing it isn't way out from what my current insurers renewal may well switch because I believe I get far more benefit from here than I do from Club Lotus.

Anyway, slightly better minded.

My licence hasn't turned but I have had a word with the chap running the event and he's taken things in hand which should work out in my favour

Must get off and face the A14 - M6

Edited August 25, 2007 by Nifty

[matk]

Crikey!

Just catching up with this thread expecting to see lots of exciting chat about Anglian Esprit owners meeting up and............

Nifty

I can see you have some strong ideas about advertising (which I actually agree with). Bibs has worked hard, selflessly and with considerable financial cost to set up a centralised forum, for the benefit of ALL. Check out the "Forum history" thread for some background about how fragmented things were previously. I doubt that you, Owen and others would even have found each other without this forum.

I take every opportunity to promote this forum because I can see the benefits of the shared community, and if you are coming to Hethel and the Wensum Valley then you'll see this too.

At the end of the day though you are aspiring to be a local group of Esprit owners. Why don't you do it the democratic way and ask all AEG members and abide by the democratic result. That way EVERYONE in AEG gets their view reflected.

Then we can all get back to enjoying listening about your meets and hoons!

[Tentenths]

This is where we fundamentally disagree, as far as I'm concerned these stickers are not promotional material but a "badge of membership/affiliation" to AEG.

But surely AEG is a sub group of LEF is it not?

Or are you saying that it's completely autonomous and independent? Frankly, if it is, I just can't see it working.

On a more general note perhaps we should all take a step back and consider how this must look to others. I fear that anyone who's not yet been to an AEG meet will be put off by what must come across as continual disagreement and indecision. Let's try and keep it a bit more positive shall we?

[andydclements]

But surely AEG is a sub group of LEF is it not?

Or are you saying that it's completely autonomous and independent? Frankly, if it is, I just can't see it working.

On a more general note perhaps we should all take a step back and consider how this must look to others. I fear that anyone who's not yet been to an AEG meet will be put off by what must come across as continual disagreement and indecision. Let's try and keep it a bit more positive shall we?

How about, we discuss it over a pint at the next meeting , whenever and wherever that may be?

Andy

[The Saint]

Hi All,

As a long standing member of LEF & living in Norwich, I have been watching the developments of AEG with anticipation. To have a group of people getting together over a pint to discuss Lotus & other topics is what Lotus ownership is all about, a common bond brought together by LEF. I personally became disorientated trying to work out which of the many areas & locations within Anglia a meeting was going to be held at. I gave up on the tread at this point. After getting my bearings back I then picked up the thread again to be confronted by what seemed a renegade group looking to ride off into the sunset leaving LEF behind.

Given the tremendous efforts put in by Bib's & the many people all over the world who contriubutes to this forum I certainly would not want to be associated with any such group if this is the attitude shown. I'm all for progress & would help in anyway to achive this but it must be under the direction of LEF & the masses of people who supports this forum.

Well that's my tuppence worth. Over to you.

The Saint

[Paul C]

On a more general note perhaps we should all take a step back and consider how this must look to others. I fear that anyone who's not yet been to an AEG meet will be put off by what must come across as continual disagreement and indecision. Let's try and keep it a bit more positive shall we?

For those short of time i will attempt to shorten this thread into a 'Rupert

the bear 'style picture summary, this pretty much covers all the points of

any vague importance or interest, but without all the unwanted nastyness.

"Are you the LEF?"

"**** off, we're the AEG"

"Whatever happened to the LEF?"

"The're over there"

"Gosh there's loads of them, why did'nt you mention them before?"

[andydclements]

Well Paul, I can certainly see how it looks, and that would be a fair summation.

You picked the perfect picture in some respects, the front car on the right is one of the AEG cars (mine).

it took me a long while to realise where it was taken (I knew when, hust not where), and it was the factory car park.

On a more positive note, a couple of us went for a little "gentle drive round some of Norfolk". It's a pity there weren't more of the local cars, but we (Simonf & I) are not trying to form some sort of splinter group.

Saint, even I'm refraining from commenting re LEF URL etc, and I normally say what I think. Why not pop along next time the local guys get together?

Andy

[Kimbers]

I've kept quiet to see how this went but now.............................

Well I won't refrain. It was my opinion that, like NMEG, we were to be a sub group of LEF. I would agree with Bibs, but must admit I hadn't thought about having LEF websire address on the items, and agree with Owen that it should be added in future. Poor old Saint is the classic example of what too much "organisation" can do. All I wanted to do was meet up occasionally, with some LEF mates and have a pint and chat about Lotus and Lotuses.

If this isn't the case can someone tell me? Cause I don't want to be part of it if thats the case....

Can I suggest that we get real about this? Surely all we ant to do is meet up and chat, attract new members to LEF AND AEG and generally have a nice time?

Nifty. I believe that promoting this site is good for every member and adding new and interesting people to chat to and meet.

[The Saint]

For those short of time i will attempt to shorten this thread into a 'Rupert

the bear 'style picture summary, this pretty much covers all the points of

any vague importance or interest, but without all the unwanted nastyness.

"Are you the LEF?"

"**** off, we're the AEG"

"Whatever happened to the LEF?"

"The're over there"

"Gosh there's loads of them, why did'nt you mention them before?"

Paul,

Thanks for that, Sum's it up perfectly.

The Saint.

[OwenGT3]

Hi

Having return from my visit to Nottingham and been away from the internet, I've now had a chance to catch up with the latest posting regarding the recent 'advertising' and logo topic. Can I just say regarding advertising of the LEF I don't have a problem, I'm of the opinion that it's good to spread the word of the forum and the connection between this site and the AEG group, we did after all meet through the forum. Bibs doesn't have to worry about LEF promotion, material will be created promoting LEF.

But regarding the logo of AEG I don't think there is any need to change the design and incorporate anymore text in to the design which would spoil the aesthetics of the overall design, trust me, I'm a designer! What I will be designing soon and seek AEG approval is AEG designs associated with the LEF, but I don't think LEF should have to be an integral part of the logo design all the time, this goes for any group logo. As for the tax disc AEG design that I created, these were something I've knocked up quickly, nothing was meant by it, I wasn't saying I wasn't ever going to include LEF into a design layout.

I am new to the forum and never intended to generate friction with my design for the AEG group. I joined the forum to meet other like minded people interested in Esprits and have a passion for the car, which seems to come to fruits, but it has been said it has taken a few new members to actually get something going in this area (Norfolk/Suffolk and Camb), and I do recognise this has been made possible because of LEF. As a new group I thought it would be nice to have a logo, no more than the NMEG are now organising for their group.

I personally don't think Bibs needs to worry about promotion of this forum. I found this forum through LEW because I was looking for an Esprit, and if you're serious about Esprits you will find out about this site through a Google search, it comes up on the first page or through links from people associated with this forum. This site is strong enough now to be found realatively easily through web search engines.

The whole concept of the AEG logo has perhaps been blown out of context, which was never the my intention when designing it, I thought I was just putting my skills to some good within the group. It may be that wrong conclusions have been formed by what has been said or suggested on the forum with regard to the design. I think I can say it was never anyones intention to not promote the LEF through the newly formed AEG group.

Also anyone reading this thread should not be put off from coming to a meeting of the AEG. The people are very friendly and we do all have the one common interest of Lotus cars and Lotus Esprits. As said, this logo thing is perhaps been blown out of proportion and some misunderstandings have taken place, so don't think we are like this all the time with every subject. Most new things like this group take some time to settle and get establish and find out what is ok and what isn't, it's something that will get sorted in time.

Give me a couple of days and I think I will have some designs that will keep both sides of the fence happy. :yes

Owen.

[simonf]

Guys this isn't what i joined LEF for - All i wanted is to share my time both online and in person with like minded people with a common interest. I don't see AEG as a splinter cell! I see it was one in the same!

It was never the intentions of any of us to upset/breakaway/disown LEF of that i am 100% certain and if offence has beeen taken I am sure we all apologise, and if all it takes to remedy the situation is to put www.lotusespritforum.com around the circumference of the logo then so-be-it as far as i am concerned.

I do hope that we can keep things in perspective - AEG is no different to NMEG we are just LEF members that want to get together every now and again for a drive or a chat. I personally thought that was the whole idea I didnt expect turf wars.

[Tentenths]

Guys this isn't what i joined LEF for - All i wanted is to share my time both online and in person with like minded people with a common interest. I don't see AEG as a splinter cell! I see it was one in the same!

Precisely - AEG is part of LEF, not a separate entity

<snip>... to remedy the situation is to put www.lotusespritforum.com around the circumference of the logo...<snip>

An eminently sensible and workable solution that certainly gets my vote

Like Simon, I also feel that all these 'housekeeping' issues are distracting from the main purpose of AEG i.e. a group of like-minded LEF Esprit enthusiasts regularly getting together to enjoy one another's company and having some fun.

To preserve everyone's sanity I'd like to suggest that we simply adopt Simon's idea and move on... otherwise AEG is in danger of being derailed before it's really started. Something I'm convinced that none of us would want to see

[oneshot]

As a new group I thought it would be nice to have a logo, no more than the NMEG are now organising for their group.

Like James just said - I think you need to concentrate on the meeting part - the other stuff will come later. It is true that NMEG are now looking for a logo, however, we have been meeting every month since 2005 and only now are considering a logo.