UN1 Upgrade Pricing and Ordering - Holloway Performance

[chstephens]

This is to inform all members of the group that the Holloway Performance website has been updated with pricing and ordering information on the UN1 gearbox upgrade. Availability will be late November 2007, with an introductory price on pre-purchases placed prior to September 30, 2007.

Best wishes,

Craig Stephens, Owner

[fmxa]

Price seems good, I may be interested - I've asked Harry form Viking to take a look while he's at LOG.

[rydning]

This is to inform all members of the group that the Holloway Performance website has been updated with pricing and ordering information on the UN1 gearbox upgrade. Availability will be late November 2007, with an introductory price on pre-purchases placed prior to September 30, 2007.

Best wishes,

Craig Stephens, Owner

Have you done any testdrive with this gearbox kit after you got it produced at a new place?

How much torque will it take?

[hasuSan]

Nice question rydning.

Maybe he's holding all the answers on the day of the LOG (Colorado USA).

I'm interested on the test and the difference between material/workmanship made in the USA vs Derek Bell's straight cut in England. Initially he said, people who are making the shaft associated with Nascar ????

[chstephens]

Per the original post, the upgrade kit is not available until November 2007. It is in production at this time. There is no intention to purposefully "break" a shaft to determine the load capacity. With the design and materials being used, estimates are near 500 ft lb. I would expect something else to give (half shaft, CV joint) before it fails.

Derek and I were both at LOG 27 in Colorado last weekend. Derek had an excellent technical session on the UN1 upgrade. Derek's design is not a straight cut, only first gear is straight cut. For longevity of gearbox life, synchromesh is the best option. Straight cut, often called dogbox, are racing boxes - both noisy and requiring frequent servicing. Most race dog boxes are serviced after each event/race. The UN1 case is not built for a simple service feature.

The Holloway Performance upgrade is a collaboration with Derek Bell's design and the USA company EMCO Gears.

Cheers, Craig

[hasuSan]

Thanks for the answer:

Craig, for those owners experiencing a bit of grinding at the 2nd gear (which I think a lot of them), do you think its wise to buy a brand new synchro for 2nd gear? I remember you said your kit comes with 2nd and 5th but no synchro. Any idea how much a synchro will cost? Also, do you think you can give a bit more time on the warranty if the installer are professional transmission technician? Three months seems too short specially when you plan this project on winter. Most drive on spring and summer. Appreciate your feedback.

[chstephens]

As long as the gearbox is open, I would recommend inspecting the synchros very close. A trained eye is needed as the teeth may look fine to a non-professional. It would not be unusual to see 2nd synchro wear as a steep ratio change exists in the OEM configuration (3.36 to 2.05). The upgrade replaces 1st and 2nd (not 5th) with 3.00 and 1.94 ratios, making the transition work on the 2nd synchro "easier". Regarding the 5th gear comment, the kit uses the OEM 5th gear but includes a new 5th synchro hub that fits on the larger new primary shaft.

Warranty - I understand your comments, however I cannot extend the time period. The upgrade will work or it won't out of the box, beyond that it is up to the driver. To accommodate any concerns, I am open to a purchaser defined ship date, which is the start date of the warranty. Then, if someone wants to install in say, March 2008, The kit will be shipped at that time and they have 3 months from that time to assure fit and function.

Craig

[Marcus3]

I have rebuilt my gearbox already as the 1st/2nd gear syncro was already damaged when I brought the car and I kinda helped finnish it off with my big lead foot, lol

while I had it apart I also dropped in a limited slip diff, this has to be one of the coolest "makes you smile" upgrades you can do

thanks,

-Marcus

Edited August 31, 2007 by Marcus3

[percyporsche]

Wow offering gearbox up grades without at least one in extended testing thats faith.I'd like to se at least 10,000 miles under a development like that before I would risk it.you must test,test and keep TESTING before offering such a complicated mechinical machine and safty crictial to.

It only takes a thou here a thou there and the stack up of tolerance could be enough to kill some one in a crash.

Just my thougths

[hasuSan]

Lotus tested the box for years, Test...test.....test...test.....test......more test still failed. So how could any worse than this?

Derek Bell & Co. is correcting the problem, might as well gamble.

[lotustt]

what is the exact website?

[Tentenths]

Erm... www.hollowayperformance.com?

[Vulcan Grey]

Craig,

Sorry I missed meeting you at LOG. I would have liked to have seen the tech session, but I was helping Johan get his sound equipment setup for the autocross.

My question is;

With the new one piece input shaft, how critical is the alignment of the input shaft into the pilot bearing? Is there a posibility of the tolerance stack between componenets and the dowels causing a problem with binding?

[chstephens]

Craig,

Sorry I missed meeting you at LOG. I would have liked to have seen the tech session, but I was helping Johan get his sound equipment setup for the autocross.

My question is;

With the new one piece input shaft, how critical is the alignment of the input shaft into the pilot bearing? Is there a posibility of the tolerance stack between components and the dowels causing a problem with binding?

Hi Travis,

Sorry we did not meet in CO but I have checked your website pictures. Great photos. My car is the 2001 Titantium V8.

Regarding your question, the alignment to the pilot bearing is important, and the installation process contains direction on confirming the proper alignment. The tolerances (and stack) of multiple UN1 parts and cases have been measured to get the proper fit based on slight production variances in the OEM configuration. I have complete confidence in the US manufacturer to machine to the tolerances needed and special tooling is being developed to accommodate this upgrade. Binding should not be an issue - the warranty is to insure proper fit and function within a specific case.

Cheers.

Craig

[rydning]

Hi Travis,

Sorry we did not meet in CO but I have checked your website pictures. Great photos. My car is the 2001 Titantium V8.

Regarding your question, the alignment to the pilot bearing is important, and the installation process contains direction on confirming the proper alignment. The tolerances (and stack) of multiple UN1 parts and cases have been measured to get the proper fit based on slight production variances in the OEM configuration. I have complete confidence in the US manufacturer to machine to the tolerances needed and special tooling is being developed to accommodate this upgrade. Binding should not be an issue - the warranty is to insure proper fit and function within a specific case.

Cheers.

Craig

I have now put a 6 sp dogbox kit from GTO in the spare box I had,and it seams like it is more diffrent variations

of the Esprit gearbox than they tought.

So I will say that it is pretty important that the one who perform this mod is very competent and are able to see if there is any problem while putting this together.

Anyway you need to do some testing to be sure.

[Guest Troy Halliday]

Sorry I am little confused here this is an upgrade to a gearbox without testing or confirmed output handling. So how are people to judge weather this kit is suitable for their application. I appreciate that you mat well offer a guarantee but this will only be a guarentee on the part supplied not the labour cost involved in rebuilds.

I am very glad that someone has spent a lot of work developing an upgrade for the UN1 box and hope that this is a step forward into relability issues with the Esprit and a way forward for unlocking the potential of our engines. But please can we se some real life testing and have some confirmed figures on power handling.

I don't mean to sound cynical and do not mean to offend but I feel testing would be apprecaited by all, and could help many people who are planning engine upgrades.

[cweeden]

Sorry I am little confused here this is an upgrade to a gearbox without testing or confirmed output handling. So how are people to judge weather this kit is suitable for their application. I appreciate that you mat well offer a guarantee but this will only be a guarentee on the part supplied not the labour cost involved in rebuilds.

I am very glad that someone has spent a lot of work developing an upgrade for the UN1 box and hope that this is a step forward into relability issues with the Esprit and a way forward for unlocking the potential of our engines. But please can we se some real life testing and have some confirmed figures on power handling.

I don't mean to sound cynical and do not mean to offend but I feel testing would be apprecaited by all, and could help many people who are planning engine upgrades.

Hi All,

I might be a little premature here because I have a Derek Bell upgrade in my Sport 350 but I haven't had a chance to test it myself, however I am very confident and excited at the prospect. I was unfortunate to have my upgrade built and installed by Jack Knight Development. They were a firm that I knew of from my younger days (I am still only 39 but 20 years ago I was in my mechanical youth) of messing about with Mini's etc and they had a tremendous reputation. Sadly the good reputation was driven into the ground last year and the company finally folded after surviving its final days without the skilled workmen who built the reputation in the first place. But who was to know? Whilst driving the company into the ground they produced some shocking work and didn't follow the spec of the kits design or even follow good engineering practices.

I would suggest that the kit that Derek has designed has been tested, running in various other UN1 applications not least his Lola T70 mated to a Chevy small block. I seem to recall that a number of his fellow competitors also ran his design. I bet Lotus wouldn't submit the UN1 to that sort of abuse. http://www.bell-performance.co.uk/frontmain.htm

My point is that the problems I have had and the cloud that may be hovering over this upgrade have been entirely due to Jack Knight Development turning out very poor work when they knew they were collapsing and not the kits design. I speculate that early examples they produced were built with more care and attention before a production run.

I believe the design is a good one which largely seems based on common sense with good solid engineering to back it up. Check out Derek's website to see the kit details http://www.un1.co.uk/index.htm

The Holloway Performance produced kit looks to have the right balance. The same great design and a manufacturing partner with a great (and in tact) reputation. Take a look at a couple of video that can be found on EMCO Gears website (http://www.emcogears.com/index.htm)

http://www.emcogears.com/files/2006%20EMCO...%2020060608.wmv (7MB)

http://www.emcogears.com/files/2004_SpeedTV.wmv (788KB)

Derek also went beyond the call of duty when he helped me to undo the problems that Jack Knight Developments caused when he was in no way obliged to do so, my transaction was entirely with JKD.

I am hoping to get the car on the road tomorrow (there is a long saga and the gearbox is only part of it. Has anyone with a V8 checked their cam belt intermediate shaft bearings recently? ) and take it to the Lotus Celebration at the weekend. Once we have proved that the JKD cock ups have been resolved I will be happy to provide a more detailed report. I too have the Quaife ATB installed so it should be a lot of fun and I can't wait.

I wish Holloway Performance and Derek a lot of success with this product. I am convinced it is a great solution to the known UN1 weaknesses which is otherwise a great box and I think we should be grateful to them for producing it.

BTW I am in no way related to any parties concerned or under contract to say kind things.

cheers

-Chris

[david hopwood]

Chris what is the problem with the cam bearings please tell us more about this?is it yet something else for V8 owners to worry about?

[cweeden]

Chris what is the problem with the cam bearings please tell us more about this?is it yet something else for V8 owners to worry about?

While the gearbox was taken out for the upgrade we decided to take the engine out to replace the rattly heat shields, replace the broken manifold studs and upgrade them to ARP studs. While it was out we checked the cam belt and other ancillaries.

The cam belts on initial inspection looked OK but as we rotated the engine we could see them going slack. The belts are both (left hand bank and right hand bank) driven from an intermediate shaft which in turn is chain driven from the crank. It sits just above the crank and is a short shaft with two bearings relatively close together. We discovered that if you took hold of this shaft it was easy to move it along its axis (left to right, up and down, not just round and round). This was causing the belts to go tight and slack as the engine rotated so much so that the belts had been rubbing on the plastic covers. It was a miracle they hadn't jumped a tooth.

The rear bearing was so sloppy that it had begun to turn in its housing. I was very lucky that this hadn't damaged the housing as this could have proved even more expensive (the housing is the engine block!).

Apparently this area of the engine design has been upgraded over the life of the V8 so its a known weakness. The most annoying part was the price of the so called special bearing from Lotus. We measure the rear bearing and found a match in the SKF catalog but the part numbers did not match. My engineer checked with Lotus who said that theirs was not a standard bearing and we should use the Lotus part. When it arrived in a Lotus bag, in a Lotus box it had the SKF part number stamped onto it that we found in the catalog earlier. The bearing from SKF was 40GBP, from Lotus it was 192GBP!!! That is some mark up in anyones language.

The car was 6 or 7 years old with 27k miles on it. The engine had been rebuilt at 16k to repair the infamous cylinder liner water leak problem. It was also necessary to replace the water pipes to the turbos and the turbos themselves due to excessive corrosion.

I could speculate that the belts were not properly adjusted after the rebuild at 16k but the fact that this design had been revised makes me think it would have happened anyway. My engine by the way had the later larger bearing already installed.

So when you check the belts make sure you also check the intermediate shaft for any lateral play.

cheers

-Chris