Diff Removal Questions

[Mike C Sailor]

My first post here, as I struggle restoring my 1976 Elite. I already know of some of you from the Lotus Grand Tourers group.

I need to drop the diff for brake work, and I remember from many years ago it was very hard getting it back; seems it needs 2 hands to work 2 jacks, 2 hands to keep it steady, one more to align it and another to start fastening it in place. As I'm now much older and not so strong, it will be a problem and no way can I remove the wheel cylinders with the diff in place, even having cut holes in the body for access.

First question; if I slackened the front diff mounting nuts right off but left the nuts on, would it be possible to drop the rear of the diff to give enough access to work on the brakes?

Next question; I see it is necessary to disconnect brake hoses or pipes. I've seen Drawfiler's excellent writeup about diff removal but this point isn't clear to me and any advice would be appreciated.

[EXCEL V8]

I don't think that would give you enough room Mike.  If I were in your position I would make a wooden platform to support the diff at some strategic points and put it onto scissor-action floor transmission jack.  You could then do all the work yourself at the pace that suits you, safely.  I know it would mean buying the jack but this might not be the only time you have to remove the diff!!

There are a couple of different brake pipe layouts but you will certainly have to remove the flexi-to-chassis hoses connections.

Pete

[Dunc]

5 hours ago, Mike C Sailor said:

and no way can I remove the wheel cylinders with the diff in place, even having cut holes in the body for access.

It is possible to swap out a wheel cylinder with the diff in situ.

It is a pig of a job, but so is taking out the entire diff.

[Elite 4.9]

Peter,

This job is really quite difficult the first time you do it. However, there are some tricks that make it much easier. The hardest thing to do is actually disconnecting the emergency brake cable and taking out the cotter pins which actually can be a very easy thing to do by cutting a square hole through the fiberglass ( aprox. 6 inch x 8 inch just up from the floor ) behind the rear seat from inside the car which gives you easy access.

You will need to drop the whole rear end to do the brake job and it really quite easy once you get it all apart but super difficult and maybe not doable if you don't.

The best tool to make it much easier is a air powered rivet gun (flat disc driver on the end of the gun ) which is used like a hammer driving out the long bolts that hold the bottom suspension horizontal arms to the uprights on each side. You will need a longer and smaller diameter rod than the long bolt to drive them out without damaging anything like you would do with just a hammer. Only takes a few seconds to under a minute on each bold with a hammer rivet gun. Easy peasy.

So next disconnect the drive shaft, then both the half shaft axles to the drums which you will have to rotate the wheel or axle to get a box end wrench or spanner to access each of the 4 nuts on each side right next to the drum.

If you don't want to cut the holes behind the back seat, the cotter pins are now exposed and reachable quite easily once you drop the rear end a few inches but nearly impossible to reach until you do.

Once you do this it is really quite easy to drop the whole rear end, brakes and all in under an hour. I think the last time I did this it only took about 30 minutes.

Putting the cotter pin back in the small rod or pin holding the emergency cable to the brakes is a nightmare if you don't cut a hole like I mentioned as you can't get there from here, as the saying goes. Very difficult to say the least and most people would probably give up trying as it is very difficult to reach. 

You can also connect the emergency cable cotter pins before raising the whole rear end once you are done with the brakes.

But once you drop the rear end, it is quite an easy job to work on the brakes. 

The only other problem is if the seals, that are exposed once you have it all apart, that keep the rear end fluid from getting on your brake shoes has failed, you will need to replace them which is quite another process in itself but still not all the difficult just a little more information from someone who has already done it, as you have to cut the metal rings with a cold chisel and hammer to get the failed seals off and then heat up the new ones to install as they are a tight forced fit and don't simply slide on.

And it is very easy to damage the new seals installing them. Ask me how I know?  And if you have any rear end fluid on the brake shoes you will have to replace the seals.

This may sound difficult but if you have any mechanical skill is really don't all the bad of job just a little intimidating the first time you need to drop the rear end.

Probably one of the jobs an Elite owner would really like to skip ie, rear brake job.

atb,

Richard

[Mike C Sailor]

All really great suggestions, helpful and encouraging! Really nice to be in touch with enthusiasts.

I have already made the access holes as per Pete B's great help, but even with this and with a lot of feeling around I'm sure I can't remove the cylinders, which I need to do to replace a broken adjuster lever. Also I will  check and clean the cylinders and fit new seals, or new cylinders if necessary (and I know about the diameter issue).

I can make up a wood frame as suggested. I will also have a good look and perhaps some ropes from the arms of the diff holder through the access holes might be possible to stabilise things. As a boat owner I have ropes, pulleys and a chain lift. But the scissor platform jack looks best, I'll look into this.

I have in the past done the oil seals, some time ago but very few miles on them. One thing I'll mention about this; one side was leaking and when examined, the part of the shaft the seal runs on was worn and not good even after cleaning and polishing. So I got the recess in the seal housing machined a mm or two deeper so the seal ran on better part of the shaft.

Anyway, there are no oil or brake fluid leaks ... fingers crossed it stays that way.

Thanks guys!

[Mike C Sailor]

Looks like the best way is to make a frame and use a scissor type platform jack; I googled this and got a fright at the prices of professional gear.

But on Ebay I found motor cycle scissor lifting stands at reasonable prices, so have ordered a better one with castors and a platform 14ins x 9ins, £72.

The platform is smaller than I'd like but should be OK used carefully with a frame; much better than the trolley jack. I'm hopeful - and grateful!

[oilmagnet477]

Mike,

I also found a small transmission scissor lift was a good idea but it is still better if you can get someone to help. You say you need to replace the adjuster lever - have you sourced a replacement? I had to replace one of mine and had a devil of a job finding a replacement - in the end I found one (remanufactured) for a 3.0ltr Ford Capri was the same (if I recall) - in reality it does fit but I think it is minutely different so was tricky to fit. It was bloody expensive though and quite rare. Good luck

[Mike C Sailor]

Thanks for helpful comments.

The diff is out, not too bad as bolts and nuts were not seized and the motorcycle platform jack and frame worked well, still needed juggling to get it out. I plan to raise the car a bit more before assembling.

The adjuster levers are sometimes available on Ebay, but as you say they do seem to need some adjusting to clear the rubber cover and to engage with the teeth. A slight twist to the end of the lever seems to help to engage the teeth. I will of course test them thoroughly before putting the diff back.

Several years ago I had two problems here. One adjuster had broken (handbrake part was OK), other side just didn't work. As a temporary fix I drilled 2 holes 180deg apart (to keep balance) in the drums, level with the lower part of the ratchet. This enabled me to adjust the brakes manually ... it worked, but I didn't like it !!!!! OK, I've owned up to a bodge. In fact it wasn't too bad as the rears don't wear that much so rarely needed adjusting. It's good to have a backup method if adjusters fail again. Anyway I'm now trying to fix things properly.