350 vs 380 vs 410

[JamieF]

They are that, I do a lot of winter driving and some routes are other worldly when the hills have snow on them. I used it last winter as I hadn’t had the car long but only during the very mild periods we had, this winter it’s been far harsher. Brilliant climbing conditions though!!

[Paul_D]

19 minutes ago, FF said:

In addition the 430 has as well adjustable ARB's front and rear and the different rear clam with the aero openings.

The 410's have the adjustable ARB's too. 

Tex does seem to know more about this than me, but everything official I've ever found agrees with @Jcx in that the 410 has exactly the same Brakes, Nitrons, ARBs' and Wheels/Tyres as the 430. Mine certainly seems to. The only thing in my 410 owners handbook with says "If fitted" next to it is the fire extinguisher section.

I'm certainly not saying Tex is wrong as he seems very knowledgeable on this (and lots of things, including the track damper settings I still use - thanks Tex), but I just don't understand why Lotus would have started fitting slightly different Nitrons to the 410 compared to the 430 mid way through its life. As a production facility, the more you can share parts the better. Them suddenly deciding to have two different versions filling up the shelf make little sense. The current part number is certainly common to both (Front - A138C0096F, Rear - A138D0115F). So if a 410 went to a dealer to replace a damaged damper, they'd have to order in exactly the same part as if a 430 went in wouldn't they? If some cars had different spring rates/damping, surely there would need to be a specific part number, otherwise you could have repaired cars with mismatched rates side to side? I'm just thinking out loud here really, but it seems strange from a production / engineering perspective. 

Anyway, for me I think in terms of genuinely noticeable differences the 430 has over the 410 it's; the titanium exhaust (along with it's 10kg weight reduction right at the rear of the car), the extra power and torque, the aesthetics, and the additional downforce. The adjustable traction would be nice to play with on track too. The other bits and bobs all add together to add to the 'special' factor, but you wouldn't necessarily notice them when driving.

As a bit of an aside, the downforce itself is an interesting one (if you're an engineer/nerd like me). As someone who's done a fair few mods, I have obviously considered getting the 430 rear wing and front splitter extension (maybe arch vents too). I did wonder however if the difference would be noticeable to me on track, so did a bit of thinking about it. In the technical info, the extra downforce sounds a lot; 220kg vs 150kg. But people forget that those figures are at max speed, and downforce is not linear. Where you want downforce in real life is in the higher speed corners on track. At a fairly fast circuit like Silverstone Grand Prix, the fastest corners are taken roughly between 90 and 100 mph in something like an Exige. At 90 mph the 430 has an extra 17kg of downforce. At 100mph it's 22kg. I'll be honest, I don't think I'm a good enough driver to notice an extra 22kg of downforce on a 1100kg car so I decided not to bother with the upgrade. (Obviously other drivers may well be, but I was thinking about the benefits for me personally)

Here's the graph I did at the time if anyone is interested:

I have to end this post by saying that if I could have afforded a 430, I would have bought one in a heartbeat. The lower weight, extra power/torque, aesthetics, downforce and rarity just make it something really special and I'm envious of anyone who's got one. There's no such thing as a bad Exige, all versions are great, but the 430 is ultimate expression of it. 

[FF]

14 minutes ago, Paul_D said:

The 410's have the adjustable ARB's too. 

Tex does seem to know more about this than me, but everything official I've ever found agrees with @Jcx in that the 410 has exactly the same Brakes, Nitrons, ARBs' and Wheels/Tyres as the 430. Mine certainly seems to. The only thing in my 410 owners handbook with says "If fitted" next to it is the fire extinguisher section.

I'm certainly not saying Tex is wrong as he seems very knowledgeable on this (and lots of things, including the track damper settings I still use - thanks Tex), but I just don't understand why Lotus would have started fitting slightly different Nitrons to the 410 compared to the 430 mid way through its life. As a production facility, the more you can share parts the better. Them suddenly deciding to have two different versions filling up the shelf make little sense. The current part number is certainly common to both (Front - A138C0096F, Rear - A138D0115F). So if a 410 went to a dealer to replace a damaged damper, they'd have to order in exactly the same part as if a 430 went in wouldn't they? If some cars had different spring rates/damping, surely there would need to be a specific part number, otherwise you could have repaired cars with mismatched rates side to side? I'm just thinking out loud here really, but it seems strange from a production / engineering perspective. 

Anyway, for me I think in terms of genuinely noticeable differences the 430 has over the 410 it's; the titanium exhaust (along with it's 10kg weight reduction right at the rear of the car), the extra power and torque, the aesthetics, and the additional downforce. The adjustable traction would be nice to play with on track too. The other bits and bobs all add together to add to the 'special' factor, but you wouldn't necessarily notice them when driving.

As a bit of an aside, the downforce itself is an interesting one (if you're an engineer/nerd like me). As someone who's done a fair few mods, I have obviously considered getting the 430 rear wing and front splitter extension (maybe arch vents too). I did wonder however if the difference would be noticeable to me on track, so did a bit of thinking about it. In the technical info, the extra downforce sounds a lot; 220kg vs 150kg. But people forget that those figures are at max speed, and downforce is not linear. Where you want downforce in real life is in the higher speed corners on track. At a fairly fast circuit like Silverstone Grand Prix, the fastest corners are taken roughly between 90 and 100 mph in something like an Exige. At 90 mph the 430 has an extra 17kg of downforce. At 100mph it's 22kg. I'll be honest, I don't think I'm a good enough driver to notice an extra 22kg of downforce on a 1100kg car so I decided not to bother with the upgrade. (Obviously other drivers may well be, but I was thinking about the benefits for me personally)

Here's the graph I did at the time if anyone is interested:

I have to end this post by saying that if I could have afforded a 430, I would have bought one in a heartbeat. The lower weight, extra power/torque, aesthetics, downforce and rarity just make it something really special and I'm envious of anyone who's got one. There's no such thing as a bad Exige, all versions are great, but the 430 is ultimate expression of it. 

Thanks @Paul_Dfor the ARB's information's. I was thinking on the 410's are not adjustable.

Regarding the other parts you mentioned are all the same and I think as well the suspensions are the same between 410 and 430. I think they just used a different description for the brochure's.

Anyway any Exige V6 is a joy to drive. Enjoy your drive Gent's

 

[Tex]

34 minutes ago, Paul_D said:

The 410's have the adjustable ARB's too. 

Tex does seem to know more about this than me, but everything official I've ever found agrees with @Jcx in that the 410 has exactly the same Brakes, Nitrons, ARBs' and Wheels/Tyres as the 430. Mine certainly seems to. The only thing in my 410 owners handbook with says "If fitted" next to it is the fire extinguisher section.

I'm certainly not saying Tex is wrong as he seems very knowledgeable on this (and lots of things, including the track damper settings I still use - thanks Tex), but I just don't understand why Lotus would have started fitting slightly different Nitrons to the 410 compared to the 430 mid way through its life. As a production facility, the more you can share parts the better. Them suddenly deciding to have two different versions filling up the shelf make little sense. The current part number is certainly common to both (Front - A138C0096F, Rear - A138D0115F). So if a 410 went to a dealer to replace a damaged damper, they'd have to order in exactly the same part as if a 430 went in wouldn't they? If some cars had different spring rates/damping, surely there would need to be a specific part number, otherwise you could have repaired cars with mismatched rates side to side? I'm just thinking out loud here really, but it seems strange from a production / engineering perspective. 

Anyway, for me I think in terms of genuinely noticeable differences the 430 has over the 410 it's; the titanium exhaust (along with it's 10kg weight reduction right at the rear of the car), the extra power and torque, the aesthetics, and the additional downforce. The adjustable traction would be nice to play with on track too. The other bits and bobs all add together to add to the 'special' factor, but you wouldn't necessarily notice them when driving.

As a bit of an aside, the downforce itself is an interesting one (if you're an engineer/nerd like me). As someone who's done a fair few mods, I have obviously considered getting the 430 rear wing and front splitter extension (maybe arch vents too). I did wonder however if the difference would be noticeable to me on track, so did a bit of thinking about it. In the technical info, the extra downforce sounds a lot; 220kg vs 150kg. But people forget that those figures are at max speed, and downforce is not linear. Where you want downforce in real life is in the higher speed corners on track. At a fairly fast circuit like Silverstone Grand Prix, the fastest corners are taken roughly between 90 and 100 mph in something like an Exige. At 90 mph the 430 has an extra 17kg of downforce. At 100mph it's 22kg. I'll be honest, I don't think I'm a good enough driver to notice an extra 22kg of downforce on a 1100kg car so I decided not to bother with the upgrade. (Obviously other drivers may well be, but I was thinking about the benefits for me personally)

Here's the graph I did at the time if anyone is interested:

I have to end this post by saying that if I could have afforded a 430, I would have bought one in a heartbeat. The lower weight, extra power/torque, aesthetics, downforce and rarity just make it something really special and I'm envious of anyone who's got one. There's no such thing as a bad Exige, all versions are great, but the 430 is ultimate expression of it. 

Certainly can’t disagree with your thoroughness Paul,

I’m certainly by no means an expert, the Cup430 runs 1100 rear springs and presumably the 410 also. When mine were serviced it was pointed out that they were far too stiff for both road and track and should really be changed, the fronts also but to a lesser degree.

As mine were probably one of the first cup430’s to be done the only comparison they had was a set off a 410.

I can’t recall the exact exchange we had via email but they felt the 410 were softer and were tuned slightly differently.

If I can find our dialogue Il post it.

 

[Paul_D]

@Tex

That's interesting. Of course when thinking all this through and trying to figure it out, we do have to take into account the 'Lotus factor' which may not be entirely logical and could blow my thoughts apart. 🤣

I wonder if they were actually still 'fine tuning' the springs and dampers when the first cars got produced, and some early cars went out with stiffer units? Lotus could have then settled on what they considered to be the optimum softer version, and that became the final spec for Nitron (with that spec / part number applied to both cars) That could be one explanation for the difference if yours was a very early car.

Not that any of this really matters to me or you now, but it might be useful information for anyone who searches in the future. I dread to think how many hours I spent doing research on forums when I was thinking of getting my Exige!

[Mickle]

3 hours ago, JamieF said:

Lovely 350 that. Let’s be honest, no matter what variant you go for it’ll still be an incredible car. They are brilliant and utterly addictive. I cannot wait for my first blast in spring with the roof off. 

Ha, small world, that is definitely even smaller when it comes to Lotus cars and owners. A few people have recognised the car from the colour alone, which is pretty hilarious coming from more 'normal' cars.

That's a great picture, having driven it back 400 miles to the Midlands I assume you are well and truly up north! The drive along the A9 was really special and it's a shame I was collecting at the wrong time of year to explore more of the great roads up by you. Goes without saying - lovely 410 - cracking colour, top marks!

[C8RKH]

On 22/12/2022 at 23:44, Mickle said:

The drive along the A9 was really special

The A9 is an awful road. Believe me, there are so many more roads up here around the A9 that are 300%+ better to drive on and many of them are literally empty of traffic. I'm blessed to live in Perthshire Scotland and within 3 minutes of taking my warmed up 410 (albeit an Evora 410!) I am on gods own roads with no traffic, beautiful scenery and rare sightings of any fun spoilers, whether mobile or fixed.

Loving this Exige chat and would love an Exige 410 to sit in the garage next to my Evora 410 and VX220 supercharged!

[Mickle]

I did manage to take a few twisty detours along the A9 that the seller recommended, but would really have loved to explore more. 

I’d planned to take the scenic route and stop to meet a friend. Unfortunately my bank had other ideas and I spent hours sat in the (very patient) seller’s kitchen explaining to my bank the car is real, I’m not being scammed, send the money!!!

With a 500 mile return trip and very little sunlight left, I had to divert to the “whatever Google says” route. The scenery was still great nonetheless.

A few friends are talking about doing the NC500, so I’ll hopefully be back up north to find some of those better roads soon. Love the Fire Red by the way 😁

Thanks to those who mentioned the Alias intake for 3xx cars too, Imran is making another batch so eagerly awaiting for that to arrive next month.

 

[C8RKH]

@Micklethe NC500 is fairly heavily "policed" now, especially during the more popular times of the year. Lot's of great roads and do think about "events" like the Absolute Lotus Highland Road Trip. Avoids some of the more "popular" roads and also I'll (and I'm sure several others) will always be happy to provide advice re roads and routes.

I love your Blue, it's one of the options for me to respray my VX220 in, possibly this coming winter. It's a superb colour in all lights.