V8 Engine ECM Upgrade

[e5pritV8]

ok,great

Yes, the post O2-sensor readings are ignored when the engine is running. This is true for #0-#3. But, please keep in mind that the sensors have to be there. You should not completely remove them! The ECU is looking out for them right after you have started the engine.

thank you I completly undestand that.

PS: The gearbox problem is not just the first gear. Usually the first gear itself gets not damaged, because in first gear you will not get much load on the engine and therefore you also will not get much boost. Please be gentle to your gearbox. Use the first gear only for getting in motion then change early into second (not too fast) and then apply throttle gently ...

Most gearbox failures are the second gear synchros and the 5th gear main shaft snap ...

I understand ,I just dont want more boost in first cause then all the addtional power goes in wheel spining.

thank u for the great help, i'll buy the chip soon.

[Paula&Marcus]

John,

Yes #3 goes higher if the capsules will allow it.

#3 also has no restriction in first gear (which you wont notice I'm sure)

#3 also has a slightly different base code and will run a bit richer in higher load conditions.

Yes, the A/C will behave the very same way like stock. It will also disengage the compressor at full throttle.

The chips go inside the ECU.

They are so called surface mounted PLCC32 chips which have 32 connections. They get soldered onto the surface of the circuit board inside the ECU. How long this work will take depends on the skill and experience of the one who is doing it. I have seen people who can do it within only one hour and others who never ever managed to get them properly in place.

Please have a look on our website, there you can see the chips and you can also see an ECU with the chips already installed:

http://freudhoefer.de/lotus/esprit/products/chips/v8.htm

Cheers

Marcus

My concern was that it said on the website you would not recommend higher than 8.5 bar for the stock engine, but the #3 goes up to 0.9 bar or higher. I suppose that, besides this, what I am saying is: What does #3 do that #2 doesn't? If I were to fit#2 and set the boost limit to 0.9, what would be the difference from the #3 set with this setting ?

The ACU question was about the air con shutting down for brief periods when the load on the engine is greatest.

One other thing. Where do the chips actually go, how many soldered connections are there and what are they soldered to ? How long would it take to fit them to the ECM ?

Edited September 24, 2007 by Paula&Marcus

[toyroom]

so is there anything number 3 does that number 2 can't be made to do by altering a knob on the dash ?

Is there anything number 2 can't do ?

Is the boost controller (all of it, including the remote control on the dash) included in the price for number 2 ?

What is the value of the richer mix in number 3

Are 2 and 3 basically the same but with the power being controlled by a remote knob in number 2 but a change of spring in number 3 ?

Sorry to nag but I want to make the right choice. I agonized for seconds over the gear box upgrade ratios, toally regretted taking Kevin's advice for about two days and then was TOTALLY RELIEVED AND OVERJOYED that I chose to follow Kevin's advice as the gearbox is now SO RIGHT! It just needs another 100 bhp, that's all...Honest !

[Paula&Marcus]

Hi John,

#2 does not include "a knob on the dash". It includes a boost valve that you may use (or not) to set a certain max boost level. Something between 0.75-0.85 bar is fine for #2.

#2 is not mapped up to 1 bar

#3 is mapped up to 1 bar max boost.

Thats the main difference.

The richer mix with #3 is only temporarily when you are accelerating and is dependend on TPS, load, rpm and boost. Its something like an additional "pump shot"

No, #2 basically is the same like #0 and #1, just with a variable max. boost feature.

#3 is a completely different base code.

My personal recommendation for your car is #3 along with a pair of proper wategate capsules. This will give you +100HP in a very safe and elegant way. First put in #3 and have your stock capsules properly adjusted to 0.35-0.4 bar base setting (better adjust a bit on the higher side = 0.4 bar

Then go on a test rund and check what max boost level you will get with your stock capsules. If it is below 0.8 bar then you might think about two proper Aluminium-Capsules

Cheers

Marcus

www.PUKesprit.de

so is there anything number 3 does that number 2 can't be made to do by altering a knob on the dash ?

Is there anything number 2 can't do ?

Is the boost controller (all of it, including the remote control on the dash) included in the price for number 2 ?

What is the value of the richer mix in number 3

Are 2 and 3 basically the same but with the power being controlled by a remote knob in number 2 but a change of spring in number 3 ?

Sorry to nag but I want to make the right choice. I agonized for seconds over the gear box upgrade ratios, toally regretted taking Kevin's advice for about two days and then was TOTALLY RELIEVED AND OVERJOYED that I chose to follow Kevin's advice as the gearbox is now SO RIGHT! It just needs another 100 bhp, that's all...Honest !

Edited September 28, 2007 by Paula&Marcus

[mike_sekinger]

My personal recommendation for your car is #3 along with a pair of proper wategate capsules. This will give you +100HP in a very safe and elegant way......

Maybe, but for a very, very short period of time. Trying to operate standard T25s at 1 bar without any kind of intercooling is not a very good idea. As it has been said many, many times before, your IAT will soar and you ECU will combat the high inlet temperature by dumping fuel and your power will drop away.

Christ, I

[jeff_hooper]

Maybe, but for a very, very short period of time. Trying to operate standard T25s at 1 bar without any kind of intercooling is not a very good idea. As it has been said many, many times before, your IAT will soar and you ECU will combat the high inlet temperature by dumping fuel and your power will drop away.

Christ, I

Edited September 28, 2007 by jeff_hooper

[oneshot]

I don't have oil pressure or bost gauges - I'm feeling left out :crybaby:

[hasuSan]

I don't have oil pressure or bost gauges - I'm feeling left out :crybaby:

I don't know why Lotus didn't give us a boost gauge. The darn boost gauge is so cheap, good for troubleshooting. Could have solved the problem quicker by just looking at the boost gauge. There are couple

out there, depends where you want to put it. No place to put it except at the pillar. If you don't mind to look rice, then go ahead.

I simply bought the smallest I can find http://www.omoriusa.com/ and fabricated a small cold air intake & inserted the gauge to the

aluminum pipe. Omori has the best gauges and smallest in market (45mm).

Not bad but not good either....but I know if boost is working.

Edited September 28, 2007 by HASUsan

[mike_sekinger]

I've been contemplating a PUK chip and following this thread with interest.

Simple question my boost gauge (in fact all my gauges, Boost, Temp, Oil pressure) read low which I need to investigate for a possible poor earth. When I have the Laptop diagnostics plugged in I get all the correct readings temp and oil pressure.. But I have never noticed boost.? Is that how people know ACCURATELY what boost they are getting and have I just missed it?

Sorry if this seems a silly post.

Jeff

I would imagine that you must be able to find the MAP pressure with your diagnostics. Just subtract your baro pressure and you

[toyroom]

I'm even more confused now !! What does the "base setting of 0.4" mean ? I have already ordered a brace of aluminum wastegate things and so I will be ready. If I went for #2, would I need a separate boost controller. And...if #3, could I choose a spring soft enough to keep the max boost at 0.9 or a bit less ?

Help !!

[BusaNostra]

I would imagine that you must be able to find the MAP pressure with your diagnostics. Just subtract your baro pressure and you

[mike_sekinger]

Mike----having a stock internals but with twin charge cooler (liquid cooler), do you think 14psi is safe for occasional use?

Provided you are taking some measures to control the charge temperature, you will be fine.

The point that I

[peter_england99]

The wastegates actuators need to be set to close the turbo's wastegates at 0.35 to 0.4 bar. Which basically means that unless you are venting boost pressure via the ECU/ECM boost controller or a manual bleed valve the engine is limited to the setting of the wastegate actuators. When you start venting boost pressure before the wastegate actuators you can 'trick' them into staying open and allowing more boost. On Markus' chip 2 there is a manually (not controlled by the ECU/ECM) set bleed valve located in the engine compartment that basically leaks boost pressure away from the wastegate actuators, allowing higher boost.

What spring have you ordered for you wastegate actuators, green or yellow? I think green is the softer more sensible option. However. I'm a bit stupid and run the yellow together with Markus' chip 3. Great fun, but those in the know tut at me.

Regards,

Peter.

I'm even more confused now !! What does the "base setting of 0.4" mean ? I have already ordered a brace of aluminum wastegate things and so I will be ready. If I went for #2, would I need a separate boost controller. And...if #3, could I choose a spring soft enough to keep the max boost at 0.9 or a bit less ?

Help !!

[Paula&Marcus]

Peter,

As long as you donot use the red ones .....

Huchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Marcus

The wastegates actuators need to be set to close the turbo's wastegates at 0.35 to 0.4 bar. Which basically means that unless you are venting boost pressure via the ECU/ECM boost controller or a manual bleed valve the engine is limited to the setting of the wastegate actuators. When you start venting boost pressure before the wastegate actuators you can 'trick' them into staying open and allowing more boost. On Markus' chip 2 there is a manually (not controlled by the ECU/ECM) set bleed valve located in the engine compartment that basically leaks boost pressure away from the wastegate actuators, allowing higher boost.

What spring have you ordered for you wastegate actuators, green or yellow? I think green is the softer more sensible option. However. I'm a bit stupid and run the yellow together with Markus' chip 3. Great fun, but those in the know tut at me.

Regards,

Peter.

[toyroom]

still confused. All I want is a bit more power without medium size engineering (chargecoolers) intervention and without any risk to the engine as I plan to keep it for another ten years as my daily transport. I would be happy with a boost control like dave's (Superdave, Wirral, UK) and equally happy with an automatic approach. I want a bit more power without having to keep checking the boost guage for fear of blowing the engine up. How many spring strengths are there and which would you use first. Still don't understand the setting it to 0.4 thing. Sorry to be thick but like I said before, I want to get this one right the first time !

[peter_england99]

I'm aware of 3 springs. Green, Yellow and Red. Green is the logical spring for you based on what you have just said.

Regards,

Peter.

still confused. All I want is a bit more power without medium size engineering (chargecoolers) intervention and without any risk to the engine as I plan to keep it for another ten years as my daily transport. I would be happy with a boost control like dave's (Superdave, Wirral, UK) and equally happy with an automatic approach. I want a bit more power without having to keep checking the boost guage for fear of blowing the engine up. How many spring strengths are there and which would you use first. Still don't understand the setting it to 0.4 thing. Sorry to be thick but like I said before, I want to get this one right the first time !

[th4neuk]

TBH I've got the actuators that Dave sells on his website with the green spring. This gives the same rating as the standard actuators. I have then also fitted the blitz boost controller again in the same way Dave has. TBH the power hike is quite nice and as it has 4 different settings you can have it set to run at standard boost levels for most of the time and tweakit for overtakes or times when you want to have some fun. So long as you don't try and go too daft with the boost you want to run then I don't see this as a problem. Surely to a point the engine management will adapt the fueling from the various sensors dotted round the engine anyway.

Admittedly I am going to chargecool mine but even then I don't plan on going higher than 1 bar.

As mike says the same happens in the 4 cyl cars which is why they have chargecoolers and why I converted my old turbo. I'll be well chuffed if I can get around the 400 bhp mark with the chargecoolers, airfilters and the sports box (Sports cats will have to wait for more pennies).

I am fortunate in that I have a factory fitted Sport 350 ECU to my car anyway (When they replaced the engine).

Cheers

[e5pritV8]

I'm aware of 3 springs. Green, Yellow and Red. Green is the logical spring for you based on what you have just said.

Regards,

Peter.

Don't know about spring colors but I made a chose between .35 bar and 1.00 bar when I bought my waste gates.

[Paula&Marcus]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ..... ?????

Like explained many times before ....

The base setting 0.35-0.4 bar is the point where the ECU takes over for boost control. Up to 0.35-0.4 bar boost control is only done mechanically via directly fed wastegate-capsules without any ECU interaction. From 0.35-0.4 bar upwards the ECU controls all the boost based on sensor input.

This base setting 0.35-0.4 bar should not get disturbed, otherwise your ECU will try to fight against it and moreso you will loose your safety features. Because if things go wrong your ECU will stop controlling boost and drop you back to 0.35-0.4 bar, which is a good dafety feature.

Simply increasing max. boost by inserting stiff capsules that will NOT open at 0.35-0.4 bar (when pressure is applied to nozzle) is bad idea, IMHO.

What you need for safe high performance are capsules which can get adjusted to the 0.35-0.4 base setting and also keep tight up to the desired max. boost (usually in the range 0.8-1.0 bar) only when the ECU wants them to do so.

Cheers

Marcus

www.PUKesprit.de

Don't know about spring colors but I made a chose between .35 bar and 1.00 bar when I bought my waste gates.

Edited October 2, 2007 by Paula&Marcus

[toyroom]

Even more confused now !!!!!

When I get my new wastegates, how do I "set them up" to the correct pressure? How will I know when the ecm is controlling boost ? Does the #3 chip do anything the #2 would not do if you chose the correct setting. Does the #2 chipset require a boost controller mounted on the dash....AAARRRGGGHH !!!!!!!

Why isn't there just one upgrade so that you don't have to spend weeks agonizing over wheher you are buying the right one for you.

I really really worried that I was making a

[Paula&Marcus]

John,

- The 0.35-0.4 bar base setting is true for all Esprit V8. (BTW, the 4-Cylinder has a 0.65 bar base setting)

- ALL wastegate capsules regardless if they are standard-stock, old, or uprated better ones have to get adjusted to the 0.35-0.4 bar base setting (how this is done I have explained many times; please also look in the workshop manual section EMM.2 page 20ff)

- when higher boost than 0.35-0.4 bar is needed the ECU will do that for you by operating the wastegate-solenoid-valve.

You see the base setting has to remain, everything else is done by the ECU.

A standard-stock ECU will allow less max boost than for example #3.

#2 is something special. It actually is a Sport 350 ECU with additional max. boost headroom. Its mapped up to 1 bar. Without additional boost valve or boost controller it will act like an original Sport 350 ECU and will not reach a higher boost than 0.75 bar max. by itself.

Cheers

Marcus

PS: When you have set up your capsules correctly to 0.35-0.4 bar and you get more boost when you are accelerating then you know that your ECM is controlling boost.

Even more confused now !!!!!

When I get my new wastegates, how do I "set them up" to the correct pressure? How will I know when the ecm is controlling boost ? Does the #3 chip do anything the #2 would not do if you chose the correct setting. Does the #2 chipset require a boost controller mounted on the dash....AAARRRGGGHH !!!!!!!

Why isn't there just one upgrade so that you don't have to spend weeks agonizing over wheher you are buying the right one for you.

I really really worried that I was making a

Edited October 4, 2007 by Paula&Marcus

[toyroom]

Right, getting there....erm I think...

So what does #3 do that #2 is not capable of if set up for 1 bar max boost, AND would I need a separate boost controller in the cockpit like daves with #2 ?

Thanks....if only I could fix the goddamn petrol smell !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Paula&Marcus]

John,

With #2 and #3 you may get the same boost level. Thats true.

The method how it is done is different.

#3 is based on a different code. It will also run a litttle bit richer under acceleration (= pump shot effect)

I personally like #3 better than #2 because IMHO #3 is safer than #2. I also like the idea better that the ECU is doing ALL the boost control instead of some add-on controller.

With #3 the engine also runs a little bit cooler and will show less knocks around 2500-3000 rpm ... there are many other little details ... like I said its based on a completely different code.

Cheers

Marcus

Right, getting there....erm I think...

So what does #3 do that #2 is not capable of if set up for 1 bar max boost, AND would I need a separate boost controller in the cockpit like daves with #2 ?

Thanks....if only I could fix the goddamn petrol smell !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[toyroom]

So am I right in thinking that with #3 it's like a more powerful car full stop and that the upper limit of boost is dictated by which spring I choose and by throttle position ? If so, which spring would you choose, what is the upper boost limit for each spring and how many springs are available. Are they pretty standard ? I mean, I have ordered alloy wastegate capsules from PNM. Are these likely to be similar spec to the ones you recommend ?

[Paula&Marcus]

Hi John,

Yes, you are right.

I donot know what spring is inside the PNM capsules.

Just install both capsules and adjust them properly to 0.35-0.4 bar mechanical base pressure (I usually go for the higher 0.4 bar setting

The green one is the weakest and the red one is the hardest.

I have used the green and the yellow one so far.

With #3 installed you will experience then what max. boost you will get. Should be somewhere between 0.75-0.9 bar depending on the spring which is inside.

Please keep in mind, that you only will get max. boost when the engine is fully warmed up and all parametres are spot on. If something is not quite right the ECM will reduce boost to a safe level. This may somewhere between 0.4-max. depending on whats wrong. Minimum boost you will always get (unless there is something mechanicall wrong, like a blocked cat or a misadjusted throttle butterfly, or a blocked intake or broken turbos or ...) is 0.4 bar.

You see the pattern ?

Cheers

Marcus

www.PUKesprit.de

So am I right in thinking that with #3 it's like a more powerful car full stop and that the upper limit of boost is dictated by which spring I choose and by throttle position ? If so, which spring would you choose, what is the upper boost limit for each spring and how many springs are available. Are they pretty standard ? I mean, I have ordered alloy wastegate capsules from PNM. Are these likely to be similar spec to the ones you recommend ?