V8 Engine ECM Upgrade

[MD355]

@mike_sekinger

Well I was just as curious.. How do you spend EUR 100k ??

His car started life as an S4S...

Back in the day in Greece cars were taxed based on engine size..

So the 2.0 / 2.2 liter S4S cost much less to buy new than the 3.5 liter V8..

Next he bought all the parts including engine and did a conversion to Esprit V8..

Next he put some carbon fiber parts rear wing etc..

Custom ECU.. 8 new injectors..

Next he installed intercoolers with custom piping and custom air intakes (he removed rear quarter windows)

He chose a custom Quaife I think gearbox that cost him EUR 14k..

He had built a monster..

Until he got fed up and sold it..

Now the new owner has his car on sale..

https://www.car.gr/23204921-lotus-esprit-s4s-v8

P.S. the intercoolers are from Porsche 997 GT2 and he custom fabricated air intakes.. He says he tried chargecoolers but the system did not work well in the hot weather of Greece

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by MD355

[mike_sekinger]

Okay -that's a very expensive way to get a V8.

I've seen pictures of that intercooler installation before, but it looks like he's still running a UN1 gearbox.

 

[Barrykearley]

What a shame - he’s ruined a nice genuine car.

[MD355]

@mike_sekinger

Yes, you are right..

When my friend sold him the car, he removed the Quaife gearbox and some electronic multi instrument he had installed, and sold them separately...

P.S. my friend actually had an accident.. Somebody crossed a STOP sign and damaged the front of the car.. Thats when my friend sold the car cheaply “as is” and removed the gearbox first..

Edited October 31, 2020 by MD355

[v8GTmac1]

Now that yellow Lotus is my cup a tea. Having fun modding to your desire on a less then imperfect rusty Esprit. 

Here is Phoenix b4 I got my 2000 I looked at a ‘88 project. Engine out and rebuilt but in pieces. Black car repainted white very poorly. Interior was messy enough I didn’t want to sit in it. He was asking US 10k 

after talking to him he was very negotiable. I wanted to offer him half. But my wife who was Esprit shopping with me would have something to say if she saw it. She only wanted a v8  

Fast forward 1.5 years ago. New owner close by my work has it on eBay for same price 10k in the same condition. Now I understand the Esprit and I really want it. 

I wanted something I could modify to my needs. Different engine and gear box. Just have fun with it.  I would prolly scrap my ford escort project and move all the fun stuff over. 

But that seller would not show me the car without putting a bid of atleast 10k. Bummer cause I’m sure nothing has been done to it. You need some serious motivation to restore a worn out Lotus. And even more Knowing you will get zero moral support from the rest of the Lotus world if you change it up. 

Damn damn I really want a neglected project ‘89+ Esprit. But now my Escort project has taken a huge leap forward in the build stage. Cannot make it mid engine. 

Edited November 1, 2020 by v8GTmac1

[MD355]

Out of curiosity, can someone explain to me what transient boost means ?

Also, how does the turbo boost pressure go above the transient on the higher gears on Sport 350 ? Is this some sort of over boost function ? Thanks

P.S. I have made my mind for the Sport 350, so no going back now to the RED...

Since Lotus offered the Sport 350 with the same gearbox as the standard V8, it means that it stands behind this ECU, while the RED is risky...

I am finally enjoying my car.. I did 300 miles yesterday, so I don't won't to ruin anything now.. 

[mike_sekinger]

Transient boost was explained pretty well in the Youtube video you posted under the other thread related to boost control and the use of a manual bleed valve.

In factory form the boost is controlled by the ECU via a wastegate solenoid.  That method of boost control is based on PWM of the manifold reference acting on the wastegate capsules and will result is a certain transient boost response.  Typically this is pretty smooth, but even with the boost solenoid you may seem some small deviations from target boost.

If you are choosing a different method of boost control, you will see a different transient boost response and in some cases spiking of boost.

[MD355]

@mike_sekinger

Thanks!! What about the overboost function ? The boost graph appears to go above the transient boost at high rpm..

P.S. I am so curious to see how my car drives with the Sport 350 mapping.. It should eliminate the annoying lag in 2-3-4 gear at low rpm

Edited November 3, 2020 by MD355

[mike_sekinger]

The 5th gear boost profile is unchanged between the stock and S350 calibrations.  There is a little more target boost at high rpm.

[MD355]

So guys, now that I made up my mind, any ideas what is the best source for the Sport 350 ECU ?

Is it best to retain the chip of the standard V8 and install new chip with S350, or simply re-flash the existing chip ? 

[mike_sekinger]

Do NOT install chip carriers.  These multi-layer pcbs do not favour being re-worked and in the worst case you will end up having and ECU that does not work anymore.

Have the ECU re-flashed with the new calibration over CAN.

[Barrykearley]

Ooh @mike_sekinger I never knew you could reflash on board. Or is that flashing with a programmer clip over the top of the chip?

[mike_sekinger]

The reflash is done over CAN with a special rig.  It is old technology now but still works perfectly.

[Mightymetro]

I’m still surprised that there isn’t an aftermarket solution to the ecu.  When I regularly ran K series engines it was a pretty simple affair with the Emerald ecu and a days rolling road.  I think I read the emerald can’t be used because of the number of injector drivers?

[mike_sekinger]

I believe that efforts are being made to create such a replacement unit, but they are not yet available.

In the meantime, support is still available for those wishing to opt for different calibration levels.

[MD355]

So you are suggesting that removing the chip and installing chip carrier to be able to swap chips is dangerous for the board?

I think Marcus does it this way..

Any other alternatives? Who can do it in Europe ?

[mike_sekinger]

 Yes: Installing chip carriers is bad for the board

Yes: you risk inflicting unnecessary damage on your ECU which could render it unusable.  Maybe not immediately, but the ECU will see a lot of vibration and downstream failures have been seen.

Yes: Marcus offers chips because he does not have the equipment for flashing over CAN  

I'm trying so hard to help you, but this constant challenging of advise is the reason why I have withdrawn myself.

[MD355]

@mike_sekinger

You are right that in the beginning when discussing about S350 vs RED chip I was challenging every advice you gave me, because deep inside I wanted the RED, but I came to my senses and understood that the risk I am running with the RED is not worth it.. 

With regards to the process of flashing, I completely accept your advice.. I know a thing or two about soldering boards, and I understand that if something goes wrong the whole board is gone... So I agree 100% with your suggestion of flashing the chip without removing it..

P.S. I understand how you feel, because in the beginning I was skeptical about your advise... I am new to Lotus and I should have listened to you from the beginning... You are sharing with us your technical experience from many years of Lotus ownership, and instead of appreciating it, it is true I was challenging it.. So don't take me wrong, I didn't mean to question your expertise, I was just trying to convince myself with arguments why to go for the less extreme S350 mapping as opposed to the RED, which in my mind initially seemed more attractive..

[cweeden]

Hi Makis,

I think Mike may also be wondering why you don't appear to want to have him flash your ECU. Marcus did upgrade mine for me but that was before Mike was offering this service (or at least I wasn't aware of a flash option). Marcus did a great job and even helped me when I did damage the chip holders with my fat fingers (they are not really fat, I just don't want to admit to my stupidity) and fixed what could have been a fried ECU. If I had to do it again today, I would choose the flash route, I would look for some assurance that I wouldn't be left with a dead ECU if something went wrong with the process, and assuming that was in place, then this seems to be a safe and quick option.

cheers

-Chris

[mike_sekinger]

I'm out.

[MD355]

@cweeden

Of course I want him to flash my ECU and I am ready to send it to him should he accept.

It just took me some time to make up my mind between S350 and RED, and maybe he got lost his patience with me..

I respect everyone here and I had no intention to upset anyone..

Regardless, I am thankful to@mike_sekinger who already helped me once with the tool to drill the scotch key..

Edited November 5, 2020 by MD355

[Mightymetro]

Forgive my stupidity but What would be the benefit of having a new ECU system over the v8 one?  Apart from the limited supply of OE ECU’s?  
 

the reason I used to use a Emerald was because the Rover Mems system at that point couldn’t be accessed and remapped unlike now which Kmaps are doing successfully.  
 

the main tuning I guess on the V8 is by increasing turbo pressure which the standard ECU seems to be able to cope with using a reflash.  Is it because it is a set map rather than a custom map that self learns etc?

 

if anyone has time to explain I would definitely appreciate it 

[cweeden]

I am guessing an after market ECU provides much more freedom to tune for the specific car and modifications made to it. I am assuming (maybe incorrectly) that at the moment we only have the factory maps to play with when modifying the ECU which are a wee bit limited.

I'm keenly watching the work @v8GTmac1 is doing with the Megasquirt.

[cweeden]

1 hour ago, mike_sekinger said:

I'm out.

Let's not be too hasty. So much gets misinterpreted from texts and written messages that would never have happened if a conversation had taken place instead. I'm sure no harm was intended. 

[Mightymetro]

9 minutes ago, cweeden said:

I am guessing an after market ECU provides much more freedom to tune for the specific car and modifications made to it. I am assuming (maybe incorrectly) that at the moment we only have the factory maps to play with when modifying the ECU which are a wee bit limited.

I'm keenly watching the work @v8GTmac1 is doing with the Megasquirt.

But haven’t the original ECU’s had lots and lots of hours development to get them the best they can be, or is it because of the compromises of emissions, gearbox warranty etc.