A return of the 4 cylinder esprit?

[Whippet]

Thats a funny thing to say? its too small but also heavy???

Really? Ever met a short, fat chick?

[Iconic Ride]

Is it time to retitle this thread "A return of the 4 Battery Esprit?"

You, Mr Heath, are a nutter!

Am I to take it, good sir, that we'll not be seeing you in the queue for this evening's Blimp ride?

[Whippet]

Well, since we are on the topic, here is my two cents.

I hope and pray that Lotus do not produce an electric sportscar anytime soon. I simply hate the idea of an electric engine in a sportscar.

I think electric cars is the solution for mass transport in cities and to work for millions of people.

Maybe it is a generational thing, but I hope I am not the only one, I know people like Jay Leno feels the same. More petrol for us for sportscars and classic cars.

We love cars because of the workings of the internal combustion engine. I do not love cars because they simply offer transport. I do not love cars because they simply offer speed. I am in love with the action of combustion to propel me. I like the sounds. In some cases the smell. I love that my conversation with other is about their engines, the engine sizes, the power. I do not want to talk amperes and voltages with other "transport enthusiasts". If this is the future, I will simply walk away from my interest in cars or modern sportscars. Or grow a handle-bar moustache and drive my "old" SE in defiance!

If this is so strange, why do we have steam-engine entusiasts? Why do some guys fly old bi-planes?

I wish more of you could've been at the recent Concorso D'Eleganza. The beauty, elegance, style, the sounds and the passion those classic cars generate. This is why I am a car enthusiast.

I believe that Lotus, like other true sportscar manufacturers cater for a specialized hobby. A hobby, which I think will become even more specialized once electric cars become the mainstream option for normal cars. Maybe there will finally be a proper divergence between consumer cars and sportscars. Can there be future where electric and modern internal combustion can live peacefully side-by-side? Where the internal combustion engine is not seen as an outdated powerplant for old fogeys? One which offer the correct environmental solution, the other the solution for true sports-car enthusiasts like me?

Am I making sense to any of you, my Esprit friends?

Edited April 30, 2009 by Whippet

[USAndretti42]

I still don't see how an electric car is going to provide the flexibility of the internal combustion engine. I am planning to drive to Albuquerque next week, a total of about 1600 miles and I plan to do this over 2 and a half days. That will be about 600 miles a day for the first 2 days and 400 in the last. How would I do this in an electric car when they have a limit of around 200 miles and take an hour charging to get an extra 25 miles' driving?

Drove up to Virginia International Raceway last week for the day, 150 miles each way. That's a 300-mile round trip and, somehow, I can't see them installing thousands of charging points in the fields that make up the car parks. Again an electric car wouldn't work. And don't say batteries are going to get better. People have been working on that for years without success. I don't see a breakthrough on the horizon.

Electric is OK for around town and normal commuting but not for everything.

[Iconic Ride]

Perfect sense, Etienne. My [electrical] musings are just that, musings--speculations on the future, an attempt to second guess a marque's design gurus. Nothing more. Environmentally, logically, rationally, even morally, pure-electric ultimately makes the most sense to me. Especially, as you say, for "to and from work" purposes--individually or on mass transit conveyances.

Would I wish to live in an exclusively non-reciprocating engine world? No way. There is no comparison to be made between the visceral sound of a multi-cylinder petrol powered powerplant screaming at 8000 RPM and an electric dynamo whispering along at like revolutions.

But I think you are correct in foreseeing that piston driven sportscars are [eventually] destined to become either the exclusive province of classic car hobbyists, or an ongoing, but much smaller, niche category reserved for the motoring enthusiast.

To paraphrase Charleton Heston, "They can pry my V8 from my cold dead hands."

As for Trevor's predicament, should he elect to attempt his journey in a purloined Tesla, Laura might say, "Don't drive faster than your guardian angel can fly." I would simply add, "Don't drive faster than the Blimp can fly!"

Edited May 1, 2009 by Iconic Ride

[Kimbers]

Lotus are now officially one of the foremost Engineering companies in developing Hybrid and Electric technology. MJK can foresee a Hybrid Evora and eventually a Hybrid on all Lotus's. Its one of the quickest and easiest ways of reducing Co2 and increasing fuel economy, whilst meeting EU standards.

Lotus's contribution to this technology has been rewarded with a grant by the EU govt for further development of Green technologies.

[yeller77]

While I'm a die hard ICE enthusiast, I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude, ATM. What electric and hybrid technology add to performance is the instantaneous torque availability so the addition of electric motors to the powertrain has the advantage of additive power and performance. Having driven many electric karts, it can be exciting. The challenge for constructor and driver alike is in the power modulation. If anyone can translate the electric or hybrid experience to the enthusiast, I believe it's Lotus. The technology is upon us. F1 has KERS. Le Mans has green diesel and hybrids are a matter of time in racing.

John: I thought you were going to say "Get your hands off my V8, you d*mn, dirty ape!"

Trevor: If you stop off in OK, PM me, I'll buy you a buffalo burger. (I'm right on Rt. 66)

Eric

[Guest bharper]

in the radio control industry, there was a trend to go away from brushed nicad powered cars to nitro, and now kind of the reverse is happening. last winter I raced strictly lipo powered three phase brushless motors. no more changing brushes every few runs, no more battery conditioning and maintenance. with a standard lipo, you can get over 1000 cycles of discharge/charge, so if you ran a pack every day, that would be about 2 1/2 years of use.

the newer a123 lipos are good for 2 to 3 thousand cycles, and can be charged at a higher current. so, if you charged daily, maybe what, 6-8 years on a pack.

once a high power/high voltage pack for an automobile drops from the current 10-20k dollar price tag, to say 5k, the conversion will be swift. then you can play motor sounds on your cars sound system, and have a small oil pot with heaters to make it smell like a four cylinder lotus...

[Whippet]

Poeple said the same about digital photography.

Remember nothing stays the same.

Oh? What about digital watches; also supposed to have replaced normal watches.

What about electric razors; also supposed to have replaced shaving blades.

What about micro-wave ovens; also supposed to have replaced ovens and stoves.

Has the internet replaced magazines?

Did Bentley, Rolls Royce replace the wood panneling in their cars with plastic yet?

And the leather for vinyl?

I can give you an endless list of so-called better innovations we as humans have rejected in favour of the old.

In the yachting industry, developments in hybrid technology to replace modern diesels have come to a grinding halt, because consumers simply do not want them.

No, I am sorry, this argument that we as humans simply adopt new technology for new technology sake is simply not true. We are simply not rational. I came from a marketing background where (strangely enough) the wishes of the consumer actually matters. So maybe you are right; this has changed. The consumer wishes don't matter anymore. It is all driven by bloody government legislation and standards.

I never wanted a hybrid? Yes, maybe as a commuter-car-as appliance.

As a sportscar user, I do not care about CO2 emissions. How many Esprit owners here remove their catalyc converters for more power? As a sportscar user, I do not care about fuel consumption. When I go for a blast in the mountains, I do it hard, burning fuel by the gallons.

I guess this is why I own, and have always owned classic cars. Like the Esprit. I already have no passion for any modern sports-cars, imagine a world of heavy-arsed clinical milk-delivery cars.

Edited May 1, 2009 by Whippet

[Rodewaryer]

I'd love to see a new generation of 4 cyl engine offered as one engine for the new Esprit. However, it simply won't happen. Sadly Lotus produced their own engines for the Esprit line and gained one hell of a reputation (IMO) and now have stepped backwards to the old days of transplants. They seem to be making it work but I still say it's sad. It's also sad to hear so much talk about Hybrids. Offer one, just to do it as an example of Lotus' engineering talent at it's best, then get back on track with making exciting Chapman-esque cars.

[Guest bharper]

Lotus has aready designed two electric cars, the Elise based Tesla, and the Europa based Chrysler prototype.

Expect Chrysler is pulling parts out of the Europa as I type and fitting them in a Fiat!

[DanR]

Maybe it's time to split the electrons from this thread to a new thread.

As for the recharging problems, what if there were standardised battery packs? We could have transfer stations, similar to petrol stations, swapping in fully charged batteries. This could also control battery aged wear and disposal.

Edited May 8, 2009 by DanR

[Tallic]

I think the way to go is with making the Esprit a light as possible with the use of more lightweight an exotic materials. Keep it under 3000lbs. Power storage and range, for electric cars, is not there yet. There maybe a breathrough soon, but not soon enough for a 2012 model year. In terms of engine, since toyota is the current manufactuer of choice, use a toyota 4.7L V8 or 5.7L V8.

[DanR]

Electric cars vs Corvette, M3 and other track weapons....check this

[Tallic]

My dad had an orange datsun that looked just like that one. I loved that thing.

I wonder what the range is on the White Zombie. Probably discharges the entire battery in several runs. Which goes back to the immediate debate on using an all electric engine or a hybrid system in a supercar. What it comes down to is having to sell it, which leads to perception. If its perceived as not as good as an ICE then forget it.

[Guest bharper]

actually instead of a mear 10 cylinder, they should go with a Wartsila-Sulzer RTA96-C 14 cylinder.

I mean, look at the spec's ......

Total engine weight:

2300 tons (The crankshaft alone weighs 300 tons.)

Length: 89 feet

Height: 44 feet

Maximum power: 108,920 hp at 102 rpm

Maximum torque: 5,608,312 lb/ft at 102rpm

Over 5 1/2 million foot pounds of torque!!!!

Just think what this thing would do with a good set of headers!!!

Wartsla-Sulzer RTA96-C

Brian

Edited June 18, 2009 by bharper

[Iconic Ride]

I can see the attraction here, Brian, but feel that for it to have serious panache and street cred it has to be a V10 or V14 configuration, not an inline. This would also help with the current model's high CG problem, not to mention other significant issues such as starter motor lifespan, etc. And the weight numbers pretty much require "run-flat" tyres as standard.

The rather low "redline" figure might detract somewhat from the supercar image, but that could be surmounted with a really large tachometer replete with incremental markings carried out to several decimal points. Forget the headers, cats, or sports silencer system, as anything downstream of the initial exhaust manifold is going to blow off on the first sprited run.

[Alan-C]

Just to add to the topic,had a 96 Esprit V8 before my GT3,not as much fun and certainly not as well balanced,handling on fun days out never felt quite as safe.My first impression on driving the GT3 was that,"This is the car for me".Although the V8 offers a smoother workout,the white knuckle effect disappeared.The difference in overall performance seemed negligible.I think high perfomance 4 cyl. engines are somewhat a trademark of Lotus and coupled with the Esprit body and chassis design are the perfect duo.The noble in my view,is a serious contender but is a rough ride,and more at home on the track.Maybe a 2.5 V6 for a new Esprit?. As mentioned before, most owners like myself clock between 1k-2K mls.per annum.

[plumdeplakmuis]

Yes. twin turbo 3litre V6. the performance engine of the future

[Iconic Ride]

"The Esprit I thought should be a flagship so it would need to be seen as bigger and or better than the Evora."

Exactamundo, Buddsy. It's a matter of perception and model category "rankings." "Image" is everything. While the current crop of modern day V6's are outstanding powerplants in their own right, Garp, the traditional bias toward larger engines in the "top of the line" model for a given marque is a hard nut to crack. The long standing association of larger displacement (and # of pistons) with increased power and performance will prove to be a significant hurdle to overcome as the collective consciousness attempts to wean itself away from the gas guzzlers of the past. We're not quite there yet, IMO.

[Stefan Ertler]

It's like everything else : quality not quantity

[plumdeplakmuis]

Although in 2009 a top of the line engine is still considered to be a V8.

In the very near future the twin turbo V6 will be the king, as almost all OEM's are developing this powerplant

for their top models. With the current trend of turbocharging the V6 configuration opposed to a V8 makes

way better use of the pulse energy from the exhaust, with a V8 a twin scroll system is needed to make

use of the pulse energy which has some disadvantages in efficiency.

On the marketing side some of the greatest cars had a twin turbo 6 cylinder, XJ220, all 91's incl the 911 GT1,

Renault F1 from the 80's Audi RS4, Nissan Skyline GTR. (Maybe the XJ220 is not a good example, but it's still a nice car)

So I think for the next gen Esprit, the N.A. V6 of the Evora for the entry level model, and the twin turbo's for the top model.

[DanR]

If Lotus sticks with Toyota for its engines this could be the engine and how it will sound. Also that car may be using a transaxle that would suit.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/...T=V&FLT=34|

[Iconic Ride]

Your point about the existing Porsche 911 6 cylinder twin turbo is well taken, Garp, even if it is a "flat" rather than a "V". Still, it is almost always the modus operandi of automobile manufacturers to incrementally upgrade a specific model line each year as a way of (usually) generating further sales. With that in mind, it is probably a certainty that Lotus will equip the Evora with a turbo in the future. It might be a bit awkward imagewise to (initially) have a N/A Esprit V6 up against a turboed Evora V6 in the same model year. Perhaps Lotus would hold off on a turboed Evora during the new Esprit's development, but the constantly receding "timeline" of the new Esprit's release might make for too lengthy of a delay for desired Evora marketing "upgrades."

And tell me that any member of this forum didn't feel an adrenaline rush while watching the Lexus LF-A video that Dan provided. The visceral "scream" of a 500hp V10 is hard to ignore! I'm not saying that Lotus should necessarily equip the new Esprit with such an engine right out of the box (afterall, it's currently fitted to a "quarter of a million pounds" vehicle at the moment, and one would have to asume that it would be far too costly a motor for a "normal" production supercar), but one can dream.

As the cost of fuel increases, and its availability inevitably decreases in the future, the economic pressures to tweak smaller displacement engines, even for supercars, will assuredly come to bear. To some extent it already has. There may come a time when a V6 (turboed or otherwise) will come to be seen in the same fashion as today's V8's. Of course, by that time we may all be driving electric cars! Modus operandi will have become modus vivendi.

[USAndretti42]

Your point about the existing Porsche 911 6 cylinder twin turbo is well taken, Garp, even if it is a "flat" rather than a "V".

Well that's just a 180 degree vee.

I agree. V10's sound great. Mind you, V12s sound better. I haven't heard a V16 yet.