WTF - First BA and now Eurostar?

[fmxa]

We should have been flying to London tonight on British Airways, and then Eurostar to Paris on Saturday, but we've simply given up this year thanks to them both going on strike.

<start rant>

Okay, WTF is up with the UK and people going on strike, is it 1984 and the miners all over again? Do none of these idiots realize there is a worldwide downturn in the economy? Do they really think people are going to flock back to BA after this strike fiasco is over? I'm sick and tired of these left-wing Trotskyite union pond scum making their issues my issues. I think the icing on the cake is watching these asses all clapping and cheering when they announced the decision to go on strike (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8415370.stm and look at the video half way down the page).

Are you people for real? You're all thrilled and excited you're about to inconvenience 1 million people because you're not happy with your trolly dolly job handing out peanuts and sodas? If so then leave and go work for someone else, just don't screw up my entire holiday because you're not happy with your job and moral is low. If you want to see low moral, come round my house on Christmas day and explain to kids why they aren't seeing grandma and grandpa this year.

Time to bring back Thatcher and Tebbit for some union busting ....

<end rant>

[Bibs]

Paul, you'll find that the 99.99% of Brit's who aren't

[Simon350S]

Worked for the Royal Mail for far too many years of my life and know from first hand experience how much of a complete waste of space the unions are. The unions will destroy these one Great Britinsh companies, the people who run the unions are wankers who are out for nothing other than to line their own pockets and keep themselves in cushy jobs where they actually do f**k all for the money that the company they try to destroy is forced to pay them.

When they all loose their jobs and BA/Royal Mail etc close down forever they will all once again, as did the Rover employees, say they would have done ANYTHING to keep their jobs.

How about working and shuting the f**k up for a change, that might do the trick!

[Jonathan]

I can tell you the police where >< this close to striking last year as well (or was it this ?) but thats over a different matter.

It'll bite them in the ass in the end, becuase people like you wont use them and that's what needs to happen. Not a big fan of unions either, I see them really as glorified protection rackets, a lot of people in the UK also seem to think it's their right to a job and they dont need to work for it, then get the ass when migrant workers come in and actually work their cotton socks off and keep what little economy there is floating (remember, you've never had it so good LOL).

Not all unions are bad though, a major issue over here is despite what govnt. figures lie to you about, the cost of living is very high and wages dont reflect that - we (my job) effectivly had pay cuts over the past 2 years which is one of the reasons I got out and am now a professional bum as Bibs puts it but I'm not actually claiming so I'm just buming off my savings/eBay rating at the moment.

Sad fact is you have to work harder now and people arn't happy about it, we got very used to the 'spend, spend, blinkered life is good, dont worry about the debt' way of life for a long time now it's back to bite us, people are happy to climb the ladder but dont build on it and it's an easy one to slide back down Im affraid.

I dunno what this strike is about, not really affecting someone who shats himself at the sight of an airliner hehe, but I do empathise with those who are inconvenianced.

Vote with your feet is all I can say.

EDIT:

Bloody hell they got paid a lot more than I used to ! They also get a lot more than some of the boys working hard in Afghanistan as well, one to think about.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Jonathan

[Bibs]

Is it not illegal for the Police to strike, I'm 101% it is?

[Jonathan]

Is it not illegal for the Police to strike, I'm 101% it is?

It is, last time it happened was before WWI irrc.

Dont quote me but there was something drawn up to prevenet police striking becuase of the backlash so police get special dispensation to their conditions to compensate for this. However due to Jaqui Smith being a dozy bitch with the pay rise argument (cant remember the exact figures, Police fed wanted 3%, the ombidsmen granted 2.5%, federation compromised at 1.4% but the govnt. wouldn't back date it so it became less ~1.25%) - police voted no confidence in the home secretary (a MAJOR event really) and they were going to take this action to the high court to seek legality to stike becuase of the sheer principal over it and the fact a contract was broken. The ombidsmen are there to adjudicate in such arguments and the govt. and the police fed signed this pact in that if a settlement cannot be reached they would make the final judgement, we kept our side of that bargain and the govt. didn't and stabbed the police fed in the back - their excuse was they simply couldn't afford that extra 0.15% yet teachers got their payrise, so did doctors.

in the end it fizzled out, she lost her job but I can tell you a LOT of police were up for striking and morale at that point was very militant !

[Iconic Ride]

I don't know the reason (yet) for the BA strike, and I have resisted mightily the urge to enter the fray, knowing that it will only serve to alienate many readers. But let me nonetheless provide another viewpoint currently missing from this thread. I can only speak about one union protecting one occupation, the piloting of airliners. I do not choose the word "protecting" lightly. The Airline Pilots Association was formed in Chicago in the summer of 1931 by 24 pilots as a response to poor working conditions imposed by a tyranical employer, conditions often leading to unnecessary fatalities. And yes, low pay was also a factor.

ALPA has, of course, evolved quite a bit from its early beginnings, but it has never lost sight of its primary goal of ensuring the safety of crew and passengers. While the public perception may often be the assumption that a union's raison d'etre is solely to increase the wages and lifestyle of its members, the "collective bargaining" process (granted in the U.S. by Congress to airline employees in 1936) is considerably more complex than that. "Pilot pushing" was rampant in those early day. It referred to the practice of forcing pilots to fly (originally ones carrying the mail) in all manner of bad weather, or risk the loss of their job. Thus many lost their job anyway, by becoming a smoking hole in the ground. Today's contractual bargaining still deals heavily in the scheduling practices of the airlines involved, i.e., number of days worked per week, number of hours flown per day, circadian rhythm "back side of the clock" flying hard up against daylight flying, time zones crossed, etc.

During my career I was quite fortunate to have never had to participate in a strike. It was my good fortune to have been hired by a highly successful carrier that had been profitable for over 30 straight years. But even my company was not immune to the effects of the passage of "deregulation" in 1978. While the intent of such legislation was to make air travel more affordable to the masses, it ultimately brought about the demise of many cherished names in aviation, and great upheaval in the lives of thousands of employess. My own airline declared bankruptcy 13 days after I left it via early retirement. It has now exited bankruptcy, and is poised to do well when the economy turns around, but it won't do me a lot of good. My pension plan was terminated during the bankruptcy phase.

Some will say that union wage demands brought on this state of affairs. Perhaps. For the record, my pilot group negotiated a 50% reduction in wages to try and save the company. We also acceded to several onerous work rules (the aforementioned "scheduling practices" pertaining to hours worked) as well.

The threat of going on a legal strike is the only big stick that airline employess have. You can politely ask management for contractual improvements, but that usually isn't effective. Calling a strike is/was/and always will be a weapon of last resort. Employees, pilots or otherwise, are only too aware of the inconvenience brought upon a traveling public. They are fully cognizant of the fact that ticketholders will grant them little sympathy. The decision to strike, to cross the line in the sand, is never made lightly or in haste.

Possibly the greatest benefit of retirement has been the ability to watch such imbroglios from afar. The periodic renegotiation of labor contracts is the part of flying I miss the least.

[fmxa]

These nutters are on strike because BA want to reduce the number of trolley dollies from 15 and 14 per flight and impose a 2 year pay freeze - my heart bleeds ......

[Laura]

This is a rough guide to the strikes from the BBC news website: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8413529.stm

If you believe some of the UK papers, BA cabin crew have it better than most other airlines as far as pay and conditions go & already earn more than the average UK wage at a junior level.

Whilst BA, I'm sure, has enough in the bank to keep them going for some time losses of nearly £300m over the last 6 months aren't sustainable and something has to give. It seems odd that you have on the one hand 800 workers that have agreed to take unpaid leave and the likes for BA to help them stay afloat and keep their jobs for the future when on the other hand you have workers deciding to strike at a time of year that will damage the company's profits and reputation for the future.

It's almost like sticking two fingers up at BA & all their fellow colleagues who have agreed to take pay cuts to keep the company going.

[molemot]

Oh crikey, John...all your pension gone in one fell swoop? Sheesh..... hardly bears thinking about. I have heard that "pilot pushing" is back in fashion these days, with junior pilots being poorly paid and overworked, which is a real flight safety no-no. As far as the BA strike is concerned, whilst agreeing that BA staff as a group are at the top end of the airline pecking order, British Airways themselves never seem to realise that cabin staff and check-in staff are the interface between the airline and its' customers. I spent 13 years or so working as an Immigration Officer - when we had them, and not the catch-all uniformed "Border Force" bully-boys we now have - at Heathrow Terminal 4, which was then BA's "Jewel in the Crown". It became obvious that their staff were becoming disregarded and completely fed up with the airline's policy towards them..and BA didn't seem to realise that if you have pissed off customer staff, you rapidly end up with pissed off customers too. There was always the possibility of a strike lurking just below the surface, it's not all driven by greed...a bit of commonsense industrial relations would have borne great dividends.

[Jonathan]

Quite ironic really, MOD are closign 2 RAF stations and major cuts in TA / reserves yet you dont see them striking etc.

According to the CAA, BA staff get paid more than these 2 fellas :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8417964.stm

Which puts things into perspective.

[davegtst]

Before you go bashing the unions remember the workers are balloted if they want to strike or not. There are alot of very big companies out there at the moment with the fatcats at the top making an absolute fortune while the workers are being told to do more but get less. A certain company i know is extremly close to striking soon as the workers are getting a very hard time while the top men are making millions and ruining their loyal staff member's future.

[gghc87]

strike declared illegal by high court ruling

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8418805.stm

[fmxa]

Excellent news for all those impacted by this (although we've already cancelled our plans), Maggie and Norm would be proud.

And to all the "comrades" at Unite .....

[Paul C]

Fifty grand!!!!!

Someone needs to bend these trolly dollys over and give them a good spanking (including the ones that are blokes).

If i was earning Fifty-Thousand-Pounds-Sterling (plus all the freebies, flight discounts, etc etc) for doing that job then i'd keep very quiet about it indeed.

I bet they make a damn good cup of tea mind.

[molemot]

As far as the Royal Air Force is concerned, back when I joined there were around 120,000 personnel. Nowadays the official figure is 43,390 for 2008...and rumour has it there is an "undershoot" and there are really around 39,000 people in total to defend the air space of our islands...and the sandpit too, come to that. In 1968 we had 1738 aeroplanes..now we have it seems 1100 aeroplanes. Being subject to military discipline, these guys can't go on strike...although there was a widespread "mutiny" back in 1946 in the Indian sub-continent when RAF personnel who had signed on for the "duration of the present emergency" got really cheesed of at being retained even though the war was long over!

[Sparky]

Bloody fantastic result, which I hope causes irreparable damage to those 70s throwbacks at Unite.

Those who know me well will be aware how happy I am about this!

[SE Owner :-D]

Having worked on the ground at LHR previously and been a flight attendant 16 years ago for Branson I can tell you that BA flight attendants were and probably still are the most overpaid bunch of ugly f*ckwits in the sky...i hope they get a bloody good rodgering all round...i hate the feching airport (my wife works for an american carrier as have I) and all staff (except Sparky and Tracy whom I love dearly), but the airport is a breeding ground for arse bandits and incestuous up themselves twats who have a serious self-importance complex thinking they are really clever. Especially airline and airport security - as an instructor in anti-terrorist security in my previous airport experience I actually cannot stand air travel due to these minimum wage idiots who think they have some idea about security and indeed terrorism...WANKERS all of them. V. sorry moderators please delete this as necessary but a nerve was touched here...and sorry to anyone caught up in the disaster that is the airline industry...shouldn't we be time travelling by now anyway?

Edited December 17, 2009 by SE Owner :-D

[rocket63]

Money gluttons. It wont be 50p if the self righteous idiots continue on their crusade to ignomy.

[SE Owner :-D]

While nurses, emergency services and teachers are shafted with renumeration and have to pay double during school holidays to fly the friendly skies..fech off the lot of them...next year i shall be mostly holidaying at HOME unless of course Sam gets me first class travel so i can sit near the rest of the non revenue first class passengers chomping on hors deouvres and sipping free champagne then get bumped in the US where they all turn up and mince into the gate 'how are you today? i'm flying to frisco for a chutney ferret how's the flight?' that's ok ramone we'll bump these idiots from LHR England because you like it in the rusty sherrif's...Oi tosser we were here first...'Hey you guys are you from England - yes. Do you know my friend Nigel from Birmingham? Birmingham London? No frig off mate before i hit you and your boyfriend.

Edited December 17, 2009 by SE Owner :-D

[Iconic Ride]

Fifty grand!!!!!

Someone needs to bend these trolly dollys over and give them a good spanking (including the ones that are blokes).

If i was earning Fifty-Thousand-Pounds-Sterling (plus all the freebies, flight discounts, etc etc) for doing that job then i'd keep very quiet about it indeed.

I bet they make a damn good cup of tea mind.

From the 14 Dec TimesOnline:

"BA cabin crew are still the best paid in Britain, with an average salary of

[Paul C]

Ok,

Notwithstanding my previous statement, the same applies to the £29,000 figure in these times, i work with guys that do seven days a week doing manual work and long hours that would kill for that. So, if i may...

Twenty nine grand!!!!!

Someone needs to bend these trolly dollys over and give them a good spanking (including the ones that are blokes).

If i was earning Twenty-Nine-Thousand-Pounds-Sterling (plus all the freebies, flight discounts, etc etc) for doing that job then i'd keep very quiet about it indeed.

I bet they microwave a damn good bit of fish though.

[Iconic Ride]

[fmxa]

After my BA fiasco last Christmas I decided to try Virgin, and I have to say I'm writing this from their club house in San Francisco airport and so far I'm plenty impressed (and pretty drunk on free Mojitos!)

[wookiecj]

Paul, you didn't have a fiasco last year with BA, you only imagined yourself into a situation where you were expecting a fiasco and effectively scuppered your own travel plans.... too much alcohol in the Virgin lounge will also scupper your travel plans.