Adjustable suspension

[Jonathan]

GT2 is so light now looks as if it's walking on tip toes - must get some lowering in there.

Cash is really tight though, tighter and a ducks arse so I wanna do the job once and right, without cheap tat.

I know a few people have done the job on their cars but interested in seeing the finished article.

The car has to lower about 1" all around so the fronts might even need new springs (infact I would have been amazed if they dont).

I've tried Avo in a previous life and hated them so they're out of the question.

Rather buy something UK as opposed to some of the other fruitier retailers from overseas which I cant threaten so easily if it goes wrong.

Im in 1/2 a mind to let Nitron have a play with them, I know they are almost exclusivly adopted by Elise/Exige owners.

Finally this if for a track / project car so I really do need the adjustable / lowering function.

cheers in advance for any suggestions

[Bibs]

I know the MD of Nitron, let me know if you want me to have a word.

[Jonathan]

If they want the car to develop a range, I'm sure they could make it worth my while

One for the shop ?

I've looked at Spax and Koni to start but nothing seems as comprehensive as Nitron becuase they allow you to specify pretty much everything to suit.

I've got to have the rear hubs off and machined, then finish off the steering so I might take this opportunity to stick it up on bricks and have the dampers off as well - if they needed them - 'kin A, everyone's a winner !

[Bibs]

Lotus produce a suspension setup that 90% of people will buy over Nitron, even if they were to develop a solution. I thought you may be able to wing it as a one off but it's not going to be cheap.

[Jonathan]

Thats largely becuase the Lotus option is the only real decent setup out there (that I have found anyways - hence the reason for this thread)

Loads of people want to adjust their cars, if there was a decent, propperly developed alternative to the Lotus dampers (esp by a comany with a reputatiuon such as Nitron) the balance would shift.

Rear springs I'll probably keep standard, its the fronts I am worried about cost wise.

We'll see - My brakes were 1 offs look how expensive they were - it's just a case more often than not to just punch a new net of values into the CNC machine to make new parts, they even offer the service for modular design - we'll see.

[karmavore]

I assume you've ruled out Gaz? Gaz Shocks

I use my car strictly on the road and they've treated me very well.

[Jonathan]

No, not even thought of them !

I'll ask for a quote see what they can do.

ta

[neal]

I've got the basic GAZ shocks (which are made in the UK), similar to those Marcus sells:

* Adjustable for ride height, although you have to undo the suspension to un-tension the spring.

* Integral reservior (not remote)

* Single adjuster for the shock; not separate bump/rebound or high speed/low speed.

As I say, basic, but they're a good price. In any case unless you a serious track nut, you'll be hard pushed to find much benefit from greater adjustablility. If anything, it might make it worse since the more variables there are to adjust, the more difficult it is to get a good setup. And bear in might you still have to set up the camber, toe, tyre pressures, etc.

For my use, I find them quite sufficent - you can still achieve a reasonable balance between corner entry understeer/oversteer against corner exit understeer/oversteer according to your driving style and preference. I'm sure the the new Lotus dampers are excellent but by their nature, they have to be a compromise, targetted mainly at road users with very occassional track use, with a fair bit of 'safetly' understeer designed in.

Another big advantage with adjustable shocks is that you can change the damping in seconds. So you can have a completely differenent setup between road and track and going from one to the other is simple, quick and painless. This for example allows me to have much stiffer springs (approx 33% more that the S350) fitted permamently. Then when on the track I can increase the shocks up to get the most out of the stiffer springs. Ride quality isn't an issue since the track surfaces are usally very smooth, and I'm much more preoccupied with driving than to worry about the confort levels!

But the great thing is that when I leave the track, I can wind back the shocks a lot with absolutely no trace of walllowing. This leaves the ride comfort as perfectly accepable, only slightly, if at all worse, than the standard suspension. If you going over a rough road it is the shock rates which have the greatest influece on the ride, not the springs.

On the question of springs, I would suggest replacing the lot. Third party dampers are unusally only available for a few standard spring diameters, .e.g. 2", 2.25", 60mm, etc. But the Lotus springs are very different, the rears have a much larger diameter and the fronts are actually tapperd. Sure you could have adaptor plates made up but there would probably cost as much as just buying the correct diameter springs new.

One final point, assumung your suspension geometry isn't shockingly out, you'll find the single greatest influence on the basic handling characterics is determed by the relative front to rear spring rates. The Esprit is very sensitive to this. If the the front spings are too stiff relative to the rear you will get shocking understeer, likewise if the rear springs are to stiff relative to the front, the back end will be very tail happy. I know this sounds a bit counter-intuitive, but if the fronts are too stiff they pick up a disproporionately high weight transfer from the whole car, which causes them to break traction early and before the rears reach their limit, hence the understeer. Similar thing applies to excessive rear spring leading to oversteer. You can check if this is the problem by measuring the tyre surface temperate with an IR thermometer at the end of a track session. When my car was understeering like a dog because of this, it wasn't unusual to see the fronts at 70'C but the rears at 40'C!

Edited June 23, 2010 by neal

[karmavore]

Neal,

My engineer had to make adapters for me because the Gaz perches (in the rear) were designed for a tapered spring. You can see the adapters in the picture above. Was this not the case for you?

[neal]

Neal,

My engineer had to make adapters for me because the Gaz perches (in the rear) were designed for a tapered spring. You can see the adapters in the picture above. Was this not the case for you?

My Gaz shocks were fitted with 60mm perches all round for which springs are easy enough to get (though less common than the imperial size), but I'd imagine they could supply whatever you want. A slightly annoying thing was that although the 60mm springs fitted perfectly into the front chassis mounts, the rear chassis mounts have a larger diameter. I did consider having an adaptor made for them but I just tried fitting them centered into the chassis mount. The mount is cupped so the spring wasn't going to 'pop out', and I found that with the rubber isolator it stayed centered rather than working its way to the edge of the cup.

Edited June 23, 2010 by neal

[Jonathan]

Fellas - any close up pictures, part numbers and approx prices ?

Cant do anything for a few days as I'm busy busy but good info.

In all honesty I want something to lower the car with and somethign I can add a few clicks to on the track, then turn off on the road - the GT2 is a long term project, so for the time being I just want something that can reliably get me by for 3-4 years whilst I ponce about with it.

Doubt I'll be buyng for another month or so but sounds good.

[karmavore]

Jon:

I misplaced my invoices from Gaz and Eibach so I may not be of much help. Plus my car is still at WC Engineering so I can't take new pics.

All the info I have is here: Suspension Project

[Jonathan]

Cheers my man

Hope you dont change that car too much, looks friggen awesome, white with white wheels....has a ring to it...

Wosat red thing on the right hand side picture behind the upper controll arm with the aero fitting on it ?

Is that for the 2 way suspension ?

[karmavore]

Wosat red thing on the right hand side picture behind the upper controll arm with the aero fitting on it ?

No, it's just a breather tank.

[Simon350S]

There ya go...

GAZ alloy single adjustables, can either have rosejointed ends or as I decided on which was bushes...

These are still shiny in their box for a special day, I have the Steel single adjustables on the car at the moment.

They are currently on their softest settings to aid spring bed in but now need to be stiffened up, all seems good, just a little floaty due to the soft damper settings.

[karmavore]

Ohhhhh, blue. I'm jealous!

[Jonathan]

Nice Simon, thats what I am after, that top one must have an awful small spring

Are they fronts or rears (look like rears to me)

Have you the pn# ?

As you can see whitey looks a bit high atm :

cheers muka.

[Simon350S]

Just taken photos of the fronts and backs along with the part numbers.

When I've finished my husbandly duties of watching a film together I'll upload them.

Alloy units are a million times lighter than the steels, for your car I'd suggest they are the way to go!

[Jonathan]

Cheers simon

Edited June 23, 2010 by Jonathan

[Simon350S]

Hope that helps

Not a clue how much they cost, been thinking about selling them but not sure I can part with their prettyness

[karmavore]

Whatever you do order directly from Gaz, not Marcus or other vendors. They gave me an amazing price. Far, far less than what Marcus was offering. I can't remember what it was though. Plus this was 5 years ago.

[Simon350S]

http://www.absolutelyshocks.com/

As usual, Markus' prices were daft so I used the above

[Jonathan]

NICE, can I has ?

Cheers fellas - much appreciated

[sanj]

On a somewhat related note, I had to have some upper spring perch adapters made for the rear of my SE to accommodate 2.5" ID springs. These should fit '89-95.5 cars. I have one extra set available at $150 USD. PM me if interested.

[Quicker]

crazy expensive....

Moton - 4-way adjustable... $11,695

I was looking into adjustable SPAX - they list S3 (85-87) and S4 (92-96) - but nothing for my 89 SE. will the S4 work?