Lotus T125

[Tony K]

For this kind of money ,you will find a Ferrari F1 that will keep it's value for sure.

Lotus should stay in it's own league and build fast, reliable ,affordable and small cars.

That's what Colin Chapman always kept in mind.

I beg to differ. In the 1970s, Colin Chapman's intent was to move Lotus "upmarket" to compete with Porsche, Maserati, and Ferrari. That's what the trio of Elite/Eclat/Esprit were all about. The performance of the Turbo Esprit was almost always better than the contemporary V8 Ferrari. I'm 35 years old. The Lotus that I grew up with was a contender among the world's most exotic and highest performing cars, and the ~$90,000 USD price tag of the 165mph Kevlar-bodied Esprit of the late 1980s - early 1990s was appropriately expensive.

The introduction of the Elise in the mid-1990s was hailed as a "return to Lotus' roots", by building a small, lightweight sports car -- and that was well-played, as super exotics were no longer in vogue -- but the Esprit in its 25+ year lifespan is just as important of a car to Lotus' history and heritage as any, if not the most significant. And likewise, as a car whose price and performance firmly established Lotus in the upper echelon of sports cars, this sweeping move by Dany Bahar to "take Lotus upmarket" is just taking Lotus around full-circle again, another "return to Lotus' heritage."

The Elise is an incredible car, it fills niches in both price and performance, but Lotus can not survive on stripped-down lightweight specials alone; were they to do so, they risk falling back to the TVR, Marcos, Noble "cottage industry" level of sports cars. That is not the place for Lotus. News flash for the Baby Boomers: the 1960s are over, Lotus have since become a world player on the big stage, and the vision of a man like Bahar is just what they need right now.

I'm thrilled that Lotus is offering a $1million car with a support and experience package to go with it. That's probably out of the realm of even imagination for a lot of current Lotus owners, and obviously out of the price range for 99% of us (myself well included), but just as there are people who can comfortably drop $1mil for an ugly Enzo that isn't street legal, there are people who will be giddy at the opportunity to hop in and drive a NEW Lotus open wheel car that is as close to a modern F1 car as one could imagine.

Cheers,

TK

who else offers a near enough spec car to a 2010 F1. Gives you everything you need to get up and running, then offers full support, training, Track Events.

Bingo. Exactly.

One issue I can think of, ex-works cars (like the Ferrari championship winning car of Schumachers which was sold to a british bloke iirc) you dont technically own, it stays at a secure location and you have to use the likes of ferrari to transport it to places - not off your tod. Also when Ferrari, for example, say "oi Fred, we're having a meet at Fuji speedway next month and the car is going and you have to drive it" - there is a clause in the contract that says you must oblidge these meets, the car's cannot be mothballed in your own private museums.

Yes.

I think this is seriously excellent news for Lotus and all Lotus owners. Who doesn't benefit from a halo effect car?

. . .

What I'm saying here is that there's an amazing number of super rich people these days indulging their passions and they just aren't "known" like the Sultans and Rock stars. . . . Lotus just needs to market it well and deliver on making these people feel good. Given the uniqueness of what they've announced it'll be hard not to - just wish I was one of them!

Absolutely.

[Iconic Ride]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

What he (they) said. (certified and street legal baby boomer)

[SE Owner :-D]

can't believe how many people (how few in reality) actually believe that all of a sudden 25 track packages mean Danny Bear is a visionary...lotus r+d and marketing is a force to be reckoned with and we should all bow down to them...this was all part of a grand plan...lotus are gonna stoppa putting shi*t parts from any old corner of the earth parts bin on their cars...people are falling over themselves to buy europas/evoras and now exos's instead of anything else...their main dealers/servicing departments are all biblical in status and we shouldn't have an opinion that isn't the same as the pro turnip temple followers.

i really hope the new esprit that is well overdue doesn't engender another thread like this and other similar 'it's great - Vs - it's sh*t' threads' but i have little confidence in the last 7 or 8 years in anything brought to the market by Lotus...(i lie actually there was a lovely fleece i saw a few years ago...not sure it was a Lotus though!)

[rogerch]

I have to confess I just don't get it. Now if the Evora cup were fully subscribed ?

I don't see what it achieves, what new ground it breaks, and it certainly doesn't make me feel any better about ownership.

[SE Owner :-D]

^ what he said...2nd'd

[Bibs]

[Advantage]

Sorry Bibs, what does that video achieve? I don't understand why anyone would want to view it or the reasons behind any decions to make a profit while exposing the video maker to a wider audience, therefore it must not be any good and will be a total failure and no one will view it and it will cause the downfall of Youtube and certainly doesn't make me feel better about owning an old clockwork cine camera.

Right, I'm off to take a few snaps with my Box Brownie.

[SE Owner :-D]

:sleeping: :sleeping:

Edited August 10, 2010 by SE Owner :-D

[red vtec]

I don't understand the point of it, yes it is amazing and will have some affect promoting Lotus, but surley they would have been better getting the correct nose badge back on the Team Malaysia F1 cars?

Also I do really fear for the new Esprit it has been so long in the build up it needs to be something really special, the new Ferrari F458 is stunning, and by all acounts that is dinosour technology compared to the Mclaren MP4-12c and the Esprit need to compete against both of them. Or otherwise it will be the poor relation yet again.

Any how I wont be buying any of them, so the Marketing dept can sleep safe.

[rogerch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m4UZkuC918

Lets get back to "reality"

Edited August 10, 2010 by Roger the Dodger

[SE Owner :-D]

:respect: :respect: :respect:

Ahh yes the golden era, the epitome of it all, the wonder years.

I thank you for that sir!

[ads_green]

Whilst true - somebody spending 650k on a toy isn't going to worry about running costs they sure as hell don't have a lot of paitence.

Any F1 competition car will be very fussy to run and even when current teams spend tens or hundreds of millions they still break down.

This car cuts away all the crap of running an f1 car - a detuned proven engine running comfortably within it's design limits and no legal/contract strings attached.

If I was the target market I'd have a car I wasn't too emotional with to drive in this way.

And as for saying you can buy a Ferrari F1 car for the same money.... I dare somebody to contact ferrari and say "I want an actual F1 car from the last 5 years but I want it for 650k and here's my 10k deposit".

They wouldn't be able to speak for at least 2 maybe 3 hours until the laughter had subsided.

The brit mentioned above is a well known Ferrari customer having a large private collection and as such is a preferred client. Hell, he had the first road Masser MC12 in the uk.

Even owning several million pounds worth of ferrari cars it took a huge legal process (18 months iirc) to go through the T&C's as Ferrari (Like McLaren) don't just give their cars to anybody.

Just look at the video of Button and Hamilton wandering around the Mclaren storeroom looking for Senna's old car - they have all their cars their, plenty of cash so don't need to sell them so generally don't.

[Advantage]

Seriously Rog, what are your main objections to this car? Would you be able to indulge me with a list of your three most important dislikes?

[Jonathan]

Yeah I saw the program - it was interesting and the legal stuff was intense - like you say you can't just buy one, IIRC ferrari offered it to him - bit like some of the LTD edition road cars you have to be invited to buy them.

LMAO at the playstation thing how is that Aston wipping all those other cars asses for the 1st min or so, how the F did he let a TVR chimera catch up on a Sport 350 in the corners I mean come on - whats the point of playing a game like that ?

TBH the kinda poeple that will put down money for something like this will have a lot more idea of Lotus than Caparo. Why have the compromises of a road going track car ?

[gghc87]

Interesting conversation, looking outside the box for a moment try considering this.

Lets say the average person earns 26,000 a year or 500 a week. So would spending 500 or a week wages on a new camera for that week in Spain they promised themselves be considered wrong? I would guess most people would consider not.

Now according to Forbes there are 488 people in the world, each of whom are worth ‘at least 2 billion dollars’. Now taking a very simplistic view, say this money is invested in an interest account, 2 billion at a very conservative interest rate of say 2.6% gives an income of 52 million a year or 1 million a week. So would, 1 in 20 of the worlds richest people spending 1 million or a weeks wages on something other than a camera be considered wrong?

My understanding is that each Bugatti Veyron cost 5 million to build when you factor in the R&D etc. but each one sold for 1 million so there was a loss made of 4 million on each. Also there are only about 5 places in the world where you can reach the full potential of the car. But the positive PR that this gave VW/Bugatti at the time and still continues to give is huge.

If Lotus have been able to produce a unique product that gives them even half of the kudos of the Veyron, can be used to its full potential in more than 5 places in the world, how many Grand Prix Circuits this year ?, makes a profit and continues to place Lotus along side other legendary marks then good luck to them.

I don’t know, so I am only guessing, but to me this is only the start of things to come. I will be watching and waiting with great interest, future announcements.

[SE Owner :-D]

Seriously Graham,

There is nothing I dislike about the 'Arabian Track Pimpmobile'...I couldn't give a monkeys mate to be perfectly honest. I just like taking the pish and casting a fly to see what bites everytime there's a 'Look Lotus did this, Lotus are doing that, Lotus built this' thread. I'm sensing you bit? Sorry if you've taken it personally.

I'm just not one of the 'blind faith in lotus worshippers'...speaking as an owner albeit of an old plastic sportcar...

I am a true Esprit lover in all its forms...molested, unmolested, modified and unmodified...yeah they could of done a better job of it...and if I had enough time and money i'd straighten mine out even more... there is something 'idealistic' in me that loves the Esprit...I do have an appreciation of some other models...but in recent years when I look at where Esprit left off I have as previously mentioned been underwhelmed with what lotus have brought to the table.

I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like to spurt a million dollars on a weekend plaything and quite frankly with a wife and kids on a civil servant salary I think long and hard about the camera purchase too...(the Esprit has taken a back seat due to reality biting financially for me). But what I do know is that the concept of the Exos may well be a great idea to some...but to me it's yet another disappointing offering form Lotus.

However I still look forward to this long, long awaited New Esprit...I hope it is as competitive in performance and looks as sexy and timeless (to me) as any of the previous Esprit, I just hope it doesn't have a red clutch hose...

[Paul C]

While i like this car a lot (as i have said)...

I do agree with Rog in the sense there is a real overwhelming 'Clap and applaud like retarded sealions' stance at anything rolling out of the factory or onto a track with the name 'Lotus' on it.

The amount of people that claim to all agree on these things don't ever all agree on anything else, so the love it 'cause it's Lotus just smacks as being totally false and tiresome sometimes.

I swear that if i wrote the word 'Lotus' on a tins of peas and shook it, there are people on here that would dance.

[oneshot]

Some people don't need to play a computer game to drive a sport 350 round a track!

[Bibs]

So where does that leave people who genuinely like what Lotus do? Pea dancers?

[Advantage]

Dunno. I could buy a silver Porsche or a red Ferrari etc, have a silver BMW for the day to day stuff and get a job in the city.

I would call myself CLICHEMAN!

(It's ok, I know I've gone too far. I'd never get a job in the city. Or a job actually.)

[Paul C]

So where does that leave people who genuinely like what Lotus do? Pea dancers?

If they honestly claim to like anything Lotus ever do?

If their ability to like or dislike something is rendered useless if it happens to be made by Lotus?.

Then you can call them what you like mate!

[Jonathan]

Moan Moan Moan...

Thing is you've come onto a forum which is prodominatly for car enthusiasts and people who like Lotus........is it any suprise the majority are please when new stuff comes out. Daddy, chips ?

[arbell9]

An off the shelf F1 type of car, probably will be a greta tor for the mega rich, doesnt do anything for the brand in the eyes of joe public to me. Why well they see F1 cars for half the year on telly and that some have a name lotus on them, they will asume they are similar or connected.

Lets ee what Paris reveals to us, I hope there is the killer car in there that snaps knicker elastic of both sexes when they just look at it.

Doing a Caparo isnt really that impressive tbh so its not really new is it Jon, its a me too

Role on Paris.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Alex --GT3--

[Paul C]

Moan Moan Moan...

Thing is you've come onto a forum which is prodominatly for car enthusiasts and people who like Lotus........is it any suprise the majority are please when new stuff comes out. Daddy, chips ?

Oh god the irony!!!!

"did you bring me an opinion with my chips dad?"

If i wanted to cast iron prove my point i could not have begged for better.

If you must come here then like everything, just like everybody else, or you are a little moaner.

Right?

FFS thats pathetic!

[Hippo]

Paul, where can I get one of these tins?