New Lotus Magazine

[Bibs]

Issue 2

[rogerch]

So these are the "non" preview photographs ?

There's one "iconic South-African photographer" I don't need to see any more of. I find the presentation very poor.

[mdavies]

I want to record my dislike of the new magazine and my sadness that Lotus has come to wish to be so represented.

Just image, style and more than a whiff of decadence.

Of course I don't have to buy the magazine - at £20 a copy I wouldn't anyway - but it projects an outlook, presumes interests, and cultivates an image that is shallow and empty of reality, little more than photographic fantasies. Whoever it is intended for, it is not anything that I want to be associated with. Nor will I be wanting to own cars of a sort needing to be marketed by seeking owners - I changed that word from "drivers" - keen to preen themselves, rather than to enjoy a uniquely excellent driving experience.

I'm not going to explain myself further or to argue with those that might disagree. If Lotus as represented by this magazine proves to have a successful future, who am I to object. But it's not a future that I will be part of.

Meanwhile I will continue to enjoy the best car I have owned, from the Lotus of the past.

Mel

Edited February 9, 2011 by mdavies

[Advantage]

I haven't finished reading the first mag yet.

[rogerch]

It must be inspirational.

[Bibs]

The magazine editor is based in Switzerland Buddsy, he lives in a very exotic, highly specced duplex apartment overlooking one of the most cosmopolitan city in Europe, and a lake.

Remember, Lotus are currently rebranding at the very top end of the market, hence expensive to buy and expensive to produce magazines. They don't expect 'us' as enthusiasts to jump on board, they're appealing to the future Esprit/Elite/Eterne customers. We'll be looked after with the Elise/Elan range eventually but the company needs to stake it's claim in the higher echelons first.

[rogerch]

It's academic really because it might sound like a lot of funding, but it's not enough to take on Ferrari, and since the loyal Lotus "enthusiast" has been shuffled to one side, it's headed no where but down. I only hope what's left is salvageable.

[Bibs]

I'd give you £800m Roger, you really sound like you know what you're talking about

Do you think this whole thing has been thought out on the back of a fag packet? Go buy a hat and a knife and fork, perhaps some salt!

As a loyal Lotus enthusiasts, in your ownership, how have Lotus benefited? Ever spent a penny with them? Sure, the 2nd-10th hand market does lead residual values but very few new car owners care what their car will be worth in 20 years, that's the market you and I are in and although I buy lots directly from them, I'm not a part of their future customer base. That doesn't mean I have to rubbish everything they do though just because I won't be part of it, as a loyal fan I'll wish them all the very best and help them all I can.

[rogerch]

I'd give you £800m Roger, you really sound like you know what you're talking about

It's not enough to take on Ferrari. You can argue the point, but we'll have an answer within about 24 months or less I reckon.

[Bibs]

Why not? What do you know about making cars?

Did you know that over 50% of the 5 new cars are shared components throughout the range? Did you know that each car will cost £130-150m to produce, same as the £125k Aston DB9, the £210k Ferrari 599?

Go look up the careers of Donato Coco, Wolf Zimmerman, Micheal Och and the rest of the new gang in Hethel - These are some of the worlds leading automotive experts by a huge degree and you know what, they'll not be calling Coffs Harbour for advice anytime soon! They didn't leave their old, well paid, long standing and comfortable jobs unless Lotus really had something going for it. They were all already very well paid, it's not just money and getting anyone to move to Norfolk is a huge ask, it's a huge lifestyle change so there must be solid, creditable and achievable goals. You do not know better, sorry, that's the fact of the matter.

[rogerch]

There once was a young upstart in Sydney who predicted the future for IBM and everyone laughed at him. Until it happened.

I may not know about car manufacture, but I do know 800 mil is getting burnt way too fast, and not on revenue generating.

[Bibs]

Cars aren't a new invention, at the time computers probably were so that's a less than sensible comparison but as ever, it shows you are far cleverer than even the man who founded IBM, you're just so well informed. Everything on here seems to be a pissing contest for you and it bores me immensely.

This isn't cutting edge technology, it's making premium sports cars and these people have done it before and they've done it well.

[simonb]

Go look up the careers of Donato Coco, Wolf Zimmerman, Micheal Och and the rest of the new gang in Hethel - These are some of the worlds leading automotive experts by a huge degree and you know what, they'll not be calling Coffs Harbour for advice anytime soon! They didn't leave their old, well paid, long standing and comfortable jobs unless Lotus really had something going for it. They were all already very well paid, it's not just money and getting anyone to move to Norfolk is a huge ask, it's a huge lifestyle change so there must be solid, creditable and achievable goals. You do not know better, sorry, that's the fact of the matter.

These are guys who have made it, and who will find another job easily. Without seeing their contracts, and the clauses in place should Lotus move from Proton control to someone else, I do not think it is possible to speculate on their motives.

This whole magazine / clothing / motorsport / hertitage centre / F1 distraction from building cars does still make me think that a highly skilled brand manager is "polishing the turd" to maximise the value of what is there

[rogerch]

The origins of the computer pre-date the car by a number of centuries, however -

Let's put some money on it and see who's right.

[Bibs]

I thought we were talking about IBM, the founder of who said in the mid-40's that he doubts there will be a need for more than 5 computers in the world? No?

Electronic computers are generally accepted to have been conceived at around this time, but again you know better - I'm sure your typing this on an abacus and a slide rule right now.

[Advantage]

Roger, Bahar is well aware of the price point of the new products. He isn't soley after the customer who is about to buy a new 458 or a MP12-4C (both circa £160k). He wants to give the guy/gal who's thinking about a used 458 the chance to buy a brand new Lotus Esprit which can be built to his/her spec and will compete on dynamics, tech and heritage with ease.

Apart from Porsche, there aren't many £120k supercars out there.

[rogerch]

Round 11 ting, ting. "A young upstart", "in the mid 40's, would make me now in my 90's, gee Bibs I'm only 60 !

IBM's reticence and delays at entering the PC arena, for which I said publicly they would pay a high price. Most people thought they were too big, including them. The subsequent book "The Rise and Fall of IBM" proved I was right.

Again you could look at the fall of the original Osbourne computers, one of the first portables and ask what similarities there are in the marketing with current Lotus strategies.

[Advantage]

I was just wondering if you (and this community) were still independent of Lotus control?

Fiercely independent. If something coming out of Hethel is crap we'll all be the first to say so. Hethel are more than aware of this. However, it doesn't stop enthusiasm from shining through.

[rogerch]

I'd just add that I find it entirely appropriate that the forum be pro Lotus. It's also good to have inside knowledge and access to technical support, and you can't keep that going if your pi$$ing people off.

In that respect I appreciate and acknowledge the work Bibs does. So I don't always agree, but as long as we are all free to express an opinion, in a polite and constructive manner that's fine by me.

[Bibs]

No Buddsy, we're 100% independent (other than the fact we have a dealer type account to buy merchandise). I've been sticking up for Lotus for years, I've been to the factory perhaps 150+ times in the last 6 years and since I like them, and run an enthusiasts website, if they do stuff right I'm on their side. I am a Lotus fan after all, have been for a long time. I know well, perhaps 100+ people in Hethel who I speak to on a regular if not daily basis and I have done for a long time.

I've been there more often recently, in fact I'm there again tomorrow (aftersales, discussing another possible parts sale for you lot - another 250 mile trip!) and I am privy to quiet a lot of info which I'm trying to convey and if that looks like I'm on their side then it's because I am, I want Lotus to do well and with this site, it's in my interests too. Conversely, if they knob up, I'm there taking the pee as much as anyone and Lotus don't knock on the door asking us to change anything*! We're not sycophants, just enthusiasts and there's nothing wrong with that.

*Only once has the factory asked us to remove a topic, I had a call from Mike Kimberley requesting it and as a personal favour, so we obliged.

[Rick Edwards]

I'd just add that I find it entirely appropriate that the forum be pro Lotus. It's also good to have inside knowledge and access to technical support, and you can't keep that going if your pi$$ing people off.

In that respect I appreciate and acknowledge the work Bibs does. So I don't always agree, but as long as we are all free to express an opinion, in a polite and constructive manner that's fine by me.

Right now I wish the forum had a national anthem so I could stand and sing it with my hand on my heart !

[wookiecj]

Thanks to the benevolent leadership of Bibs (don't get too big headed, I'm just telling it like it is) I feel perfectly free to praise and/or criticise the Forum, its leadership, its membership, Group Lotus, Team Lotus and everyone/thing concerned with Lotus and am thankful to be tolerated considering my non Lotus ownership and alliegance to Marcos cars.

That said, I wholeheartedly support Group Lotus in their efforts to move forward with an iconic brand whilst realising that only Mr Camelot will be instrumental in me ever owning one of their new products. I think I would enjoy having the Lotus Magazines but that's never going to happen because of my own budgetary constraints.

Hopefully Lotus will be able to successfully raise their profile in the marketplace they have targetted and not go the way of so many other manufacturers who, if only from their past heritage, are regarded as being British. This magazine may assist them in the social/financial class in which I have no reason to think I will ever participate... even if Mr Camelot tries to drown me in money.

Edited February 9, 2011 by wookie

[red vtec]

Just looked on the Lotus website and it is good to see that they are not infact forgetting the heritage there is quite alot of information about Chapman, and the Lotus cars beginings etc

Not to sure about the magazine, but it is a step in the right direction pushing the brand up market. You have to remeber our cars are now old, things move on.

The Future is Bright, The Future is Yellow & Green.

[shadeone]

article/preview mentions a "behind the scenes look" at pretty woman yet all i see in the preview pictures is a 2 pages spread of stills from the movie... is there actually any behind the scenes info or pictures regarding the silver esprit from the movie, or are movie stills considered "behind the scenes"?

[yeller77]

Right now I wish the forum had a national anthem so I could stand and sing it with my hand on my heart !

*bolts up* "TLF, TLF, TLF, WE LOVE YOU! AMEN!"

I'll be the first to start!