90 Turbo Engine Swap

[Couger]

Well guys heres one for yous.. Im going to be lifting out my old knackered engine out shortley, would be nice if anyone can give me a few pointers on the pitfalls and what to be ready for and what kit, tools etc Im going to need.

Nice easy one to get us started...

Ian

[Paul C]

Cannot be much techie help, sorry!

But if i was in your position (Looking to keep the car long term) then i'd look at anything else that is made easy by engine removal. Tanks spring to mind and the Manifold if its elderly too.

Take plenty of photo's too. Not only will it help others in the future but it may help you put it back in!

Good luck!

Am waiting on a call from a guy near me to help him put the body back on his car ('85 turbo) am going to photo and post the whole thing if i can. There is something wierd about standing in his car where the engine should be and looking around at angles you would otherwise never see....

[Couger]

Cannot be much techie help, sorry!

But if i was in your position (Looking to keep the car long term) then i'd look at anything else that is made easy by engine removal. Tanks spring to mind and the Manifold if its elderly too.

Take plenty of photo's too. Not only will it help others in the future but it may help you put it back in!

Good luck!

Am waiting on a call from a guy near me to help him put the body back on his car ('85 turbo) am going to photo and post the whole thing if i can. There is something wierd about standing in his car where the engine should be and looking around at angles you would otherwise never see....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Clarkey,

Ive got it pretty much sussed, just like to be ready for the usual Esprit suprises that popup and kick u in the nuts... was acually contemplating gettin rid of it over the past couple of weeks, its really been gettin me down, but Im thru the worst now and coudnt imagine not owning an Esprit now.

[The_Del]

Haven't done a full engine out job myself yet but did contemplate it a few times.

Tips I have picked up from various places.

It is easier to take the engine and transmission out in one lump generally, rather thn trying to split in the car. This will certainly help when putting gearbox back on which is far easier with engine out.

You will need some sort of crane and make sure you get an extra long reach arm. Many standard cranes have a reach that seems ok on paper, but when put to back of car the upright touches back bumper and reduces reach by a foot or so. This is enough to put it behind balance point and therefore a pain/dangerous to remove engine.

Whilst engine is out as others have mentioned check fuel tanks for leaks/rust, Exhaust manifold, clutch.

Looks relatively simple to remove in general, just lots of bolts and pipes, nothing too hidden or unusual.

Let us know how it goes.

[kwacker2000]

Hi Ian,

When I got my Esprit 88 Turbo 10 years ago, the first job that I had to do required engine removal. You will be glad to know that it was no more difficult than many other cars and in some ways a lot easier. It was a while ago but these things have a habit of sticky in your mind.

A couple of key points.

I was working out side so it was handy to note that with the gearbox split first you can work on the car with the tailgate attached, just remove the struts to allow more lift.

When removing and replacing chassis cross member ensure chassis is evenly supported. ( after splitting rear suspension to withdraw driveshafts I reasembled assy to allow car to stand on 4 wheels) support the chassis in the middle at the rear as chassis flex would loads the cross member and you cant get bolts out without damaging the bolt threads.

With the boot floor and the exhaust silencer removed you climb inside sit on the gearbox and can reach everything without to much problem.

Support rear of engine with a trolley jack (allows height adjustment if req'd) before seperating the box. IT IS very heavy get help lifting it out over the transom!

Remove engine mount leg from o/s side of the block.

Leave air-con compressor connected to the gas lines.

I think youve probably got the picture so any other qestion I would be happy to try and help but I think this reply is probably to long so.Good luck.

Mat

[Couger]

Thanks Mat

Theres a few good tips in there that I wasnt aware of, notley that you dont have to take out the gearbox.. which in turn means you havent got to remove the gearstick I would imagine, was it awkward lining up the box and engine on re assembly with the box still in the car

Cheers

Ian

[kwacker2000]

Hi Ian,

Sorry mate but its the tailgate that stayed on, the Gearbox DOES need to come out but doen't fret if your going to take the Engine out its just another bit. You can remove the engine gearbox as an assembly, its just that as I was working alone I found it easier to take it out in more manageble pieces (I was doing the clutch anyway). Gear linkage is only a couple of cables which you detach from the G'box

Regards

Mat

Thanks Mat

Theres a few good tips in there that I wasnt aware of, notley that you dont have to take out the gearbox.. which in turn means you havent got to remove the gearstick I would imagine, was it awkward lining up the box and engine on re assembly with the box still in the car

Cheers

Ian

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

I seem to recall reading that Hire Shop only have one crane that will reach / do the job on an epsrit (as Del mentioned above and as posted in another thread, this is an issue!) iirc it was the most expensive one they do you need! (as ever)

HTH

Robin

[Couger]

I seem to recall reading that Hire Shop only have one crane that will reach / do the job on an epsrit (as Del mentioned above and as posted in another thread, this is an issue!) iirc it was the most expensive one they do you need! (as ever)

HTH

Robin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldnt have it any other way.. thanks guys Ill let yous know how Ive got on hoping to be doin it at the weekend.. ish.... maybe... see what happens...

Ian (looking round for a gallon of petrol and a box of matches)

[glynherron]

Hi Mat,

I am changing the clutch on my S4s this weekend - or at least making a start on it. Could you please try and re-explain the technique that you use for supporting your Esprit. You wrote:

When removing and replacing chassis cross member ensure chassis is evenly supported. ( after splitting rear suspension to withdraw driveshafts I reasembled assy to allow car to stand on 4 wheels) support the chassis in the middle at the rear as chassis flex would loads the cross member and you cant get bolts out without damaging the bolt threads.

Thanks,

Glyn

[kwacker2000]

Hi Glyn

I Raised the chassis with a large 21/2 ton trolley jack, from the back at the point where the lower links connect to the chassis right in the middle lowest section (with a piece wood to spread the load and prevent any damage to the chassis. Provide support to the body at both of the rear jacking points (I lowered the car onto axle stands but kept most of the weight on the trolley jack. Release top links from the hub carriers to allow withdraw of the drive shafts (not forgeting the roll pins). You could then just remove cross member then lift out gearbox job done! apart from putting it back together.

hope thats a bit clearer.

The key points are -

Jack car up evenly left to Right as it twists.

When removing or refitting the cross member it is under compression when the weight is on the wheels and tension when jacked from the centre leaving wheels unsupported.

As a point of reassurance: It is Easy, and since your prepared to undertake this job in the first place you will have no problems. B)

Regards

Mat

Always work safely do not go under an unsupported car

[Esprit2]

At the rear of the chassis, the cross members and the tubes that loop down under the gearbox to pick up the suspension's lower arms collectively form a hoop bulkhead. All the separate elements are pretty light gauge and don't have much beam strength. The crossmember, for instance, is just a formed sheet metal "U" channel. All together, the hoop is strong and up to the task. However, break it apart... like remove the crossmember... and everything is pretty weak.

The way the weight of the car is fed into the chassis by the spring/shock units, the transverse load imposed is carried by the crossmember in compression, and the chassis side tubes don't carry any of that load.

If you remove the crossmember while the car is sitting on it's wheels, The side tubes must now support the transverse load in bending and they aren't up to the task. They will deflect inward toward the center of the car. Now if you try to re-install the cross member, the bolt holes won't line up.

In that case, put a trolley jack under the chassis' rear hoop where the lower suspension arms attach and lift the car a bit... slowly. The diagonal side tubes of the hoop bulkhead will transmit some of that lifting load up to the chassis side tubes near where the crossmember bolts on. Due to their angle, some of the load will be horizontal... pushing the chassis side tubes outward... away from the center of the car. With the crossmember in place and one bolt inserted on one side of the chassis, slowly lift with the jack until the chassis tubes deflect enough for the crossmember bolt holes to align. Install the bolts.

If the engine & gearbox are out of the car while you are doing this, there may not be sufficient weight on the jack to force the chassis tubes out. In that case, have a helper (not a skinny flyweight) get in the boot area. That should be sufficient to spread the chassis tubes.

It is NOT a good idea to bend the chassis under any circumstances. So don't get to cavalier about it just because you now know how to "fix" it.

Before removing the crossmember:

Jack the car up and support it on stands placed at the rear jacking points. Remove the trolly jack load from the rear chassis hoop so there is no applied load. Then remove the crossmember.

Always re-install the crossmember before putting the car back down onto it's wheels... even if the engine & gearbox are out of the car. Never let the chassis support weight through the coil/shocks without the crossmember in place. Never lift the car by jacking at the rear chassis hoop without the crossmember in place.

Regards,

Tim Engel

Lotus Owners Oftha North

[Esprit2]

I do quite a bit of work on Esprits (my own and in the club... not for hire) and have pulled the transaxle alone 5 times and the engine/transaxle together 12 times. If you run into a snag and have a question, feel free to contact me directly at tengel@mchsi.com. Perhaps I can help. You could post a message to this forum, but I don't check it every day. I do check my personal e-mail frequently and may be able to give a timely response.

Regards,

Tim Engel

Lotus Owners Oftha North (LOON = Minnesota state bird).

[Esprit2]

The transaxle can be pulled alone.

The engine and transaxle can be pulled together.

The engine cannot be pulled alone... at least it's not practical.

If all you are going to do is work on the gearbox, clutch or rear main seal, then the transaxle can be pulled alone very easily. About three hours.

If you intend to remove both the engine and transaxle, then I suggest removing them together. IMHO, one big pull is just less work than two separate pulls. It also eliminates the possiblility of unbolting the transaxle only to have the input shaft hang-up in the spigot bearing or clutch disk. That can be a bit of a problem especially if you can't get them back together to pull them both at once. Pull the two together, then separate/ mate them on the floor where it will be much easier.

To separate the engine and transaxle in the car, the transaxle must be moved back far enough for the clutch housing and input shaft to clear the clutch. The engine can't go forward that much, so removing it alone would still require disconnecting the transaxle and moving it back first. Then you would have to support the transaxle in that position while you attack the engine. To me that sounds like doing more work to avoid less work.

Can the engine be removed alone? (??) I would think so. But only someone single mindedly focused on proving it could be done would think it's a good idea. Make life easy on yourself. If the engine comes out, then the gearbox comes out. Either first, or along with the engine... and I think it's easier to lift them both out together.

Regards,

Tim Engel

Lotus Owners Oftha North

[glynherron]

Thanks for all your advice.

Has anyone ever supported the car directly from the chassis - but as far forward as you can - I just don't like the idea of being underneath with only a few fasteners holding the fibreglass body to the chassis - which are under tension.

I should have started it yesterday, but the downpipe on my S3 started blowing... so will be starting it this week.......................

Thanks again

Glyn

[Esprit2]

Your fears are unfounded. The Esprit's body is strong like bull... this is no Europa! And bolts are designed as tension devices... that's their strongest mode.

Moving the stands to the chassis puts them closer together. The wider stance provided by the body jacking points makes for a more stable footprint and gets the stands out of your way.

While working on the engine or removing it, you will want easy access to it. Moving the stands in to the chassis puts them were they will be in your way. You will be working around them all the time. Very high PITA factor.

Finally, as you move the stands forward they get closer to the car's CG. As a result they will have to bear more of the cars full weight. And depending upon your weight, if you climb into the back of the car it may teeter-totter on the stands. It won't do that if the stands are at the body jacking points.

The body points are really the best place. If you want redundancy, place a trolly jack under the chassis' rear hoop bulkhead with minimal pressure. You aren't supposed to jack at that point while the crossmember is out, but if the car were to fall off the stands that probably wouldn't be your first concern. Also, it's best to remove the crossmember only long enough to pull the engine/transaxle. Then put it back until their ready to go back it.

For double redundancy, slide a rear tire (widest) under the sills on either side. Place them ahead of the stands but try not to go further forward than the firewall bulkhead. If the car falls, they will catch it before it gets to bug squishing levels.

But relax, the car will be very solid, stable, secure if you place stands at the body jacking points. If your stands don't have an end shaped to fit well on the jackin pad, then place a short (12" ?) piece of 2x4 between the stand and the body. Note the difference between the main body molding and the add-on sill panels. Place the 2x4 along that joint line so it rests on the main body molding only and well back toward the wheel well. That's the strongest point due to the intersections of several body walls and it's directly below a body/chassis mount.

Regards,

Tim Engel

Lotus Owners Oftha North

[Esprit2]

Glyn,

The Esprit body is strong like bull... this is no Europa! And bolts are designed as tension fasteners... that's their strongest mode.

Placing stands at the body jacking points is the best way to support it. Moving the stands to the chassis narrows their footprint, places them closer to the car's CG (teeter-totter) and puts them in your way.

If your stands don't have a lift-pad shaped appropriately to fit the body jacking point, then put a short (12" or so) piece of 2x4 between the body and the stand. Note the difference between the main body tub molding and the add-on sill panel. Place the 2x4 along the joint line, on the main body molding and as far back toward the wheel well as practical. The intersection of several integral body walls makes that a very strong point and it's right under a chassis mount.

For redundancy, leave the trolly jack under the chassis' rear hoop bulkhead... just placed there with minimal pressure. You're not supposed to jack there if the crossmember is out, but in the unlikely event you do manage to knock the car off the stands that probably won't be your first concern. Remove the crossmember only long enough to remove the engine/transaxle. Then replace it until they are ready to go back in.

Regards,

Tim Engel

Lotus Owners Oftha North

[Esprit2]

Sorry about the redundant posts. I posted the first one and got a error message advising it could not be posted. So I posted the second one only to find they are both there now.

:-/

Later,

Tim Engel

Edited November 7, 2004 by Esprit2

[glynherron]

thanks for the reassurance.

I feel safer already - and will do as I'm told......

Thanks again,

glyn

[Couger]

Guys , quick update engine came out kicking and screaming everything else still intact for now, wonder if I could get a V8 in here...

Ian

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

You're not the first to think that!!!

Succumb ye not to the sordid and dirty temptations of the Rover V8!

[Couger]

You're not the first to think that!!!

Succumb ye not to the sordid and dirty temptations of the Rover V8!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You must tell me more about this rover V8 thing could be a cheap donor engne...

Ian

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

S L A P ! ! ! !

[Paul C]

SHERPA

[Couger]

:DNew (Lotus) engine going in as we speak