Autocars wonderful review of the improved Evora

[sjrnoel]

After committing 1 year ahead of the car being launched and receiving the 3rd customer car Lotus stab all of us LE owners in the back and tell the world that they have improved the by making 143 enhancements! Then Mr Bahar goes in print and says there are 190 issues!

Perhaps Mr Bahar should go vista his dealers and actually meet the customers of the cars he is selling to understand the Brand and what it has meant up until now.

I have been a loyal Lotus owner for the last 20 years and will never buy a new Lotus again.

Many manufactures improve the cars but not many detail every flipping nut and bolt thats been replaced!

Imagine when you want to sell your car what the question will be? Guess which cars people will want to avoid?

I for one am happy with my car apart from the drive train and the crappy Alpine and once out of warranty will look to enhance it when i can.\

Lotus have missed the trick by not looking after its existing customers by offering subsided improvements to the Evora like it did with the Elise

SjrN

[mdavies]

"Lotus have missed the trick by not looking after its existing customers ........................"

Steve, whilst having my own perspective regarding specifics, I support your general theme as expressed in the extract I have quoted above. Whether existing customers are seen by "new Lotus" as its potential future customers is a matter for debate of course.

Given that the now on-going Evora, and (I expect) some announcements tomorrow, will sit in the financial bracket below the envisaged supercar-future, I would have thought that Lotus should be considering keeping, or restoring, the goodwill of existing owners.

[chandrew]

After committing 1 year ahead of the car being launched and receiving the 3rd customer car Lotus stab all of us LE owners in the back and tell the world that they have improved the by making 143 enhancements! Then Mr Bahar goes in print and says there are 190 issues!

I can thoroughly understand the frustration that you feel, however I don't agree that Lotus have been unusual in announcing a long list of changes in a refreshed model. Here is a 71 page pdf press release from BMW detailing the changes when they refreshed the current 3 series a few years ago. Lotus have made a minuscule number of changes in comparison. When Porsche changed the 997 series in 2008 (for 2009 MY) they changed all the engines, added 30bhp, increased fuel efficiency by 15% and changed the tiptronic gearbox to the PDK system. They did something similar for the 996 range cars. For both companies the cars also look different from the outside, something which Lotus hasn't done. To my knowledge few other companies subsidize upgrades.

What is unusual is that Lotus have done this after 2.x years instead of between 3 & 4 like the other two firms I mention. Unless you buy a car like the 4.0 GT3 RS which is specifically marketed as a run-out model you should realize that there will likely be upgrades. For run-out models of course the worry is that they new model will be even better.

[insertaliashere]

You can't blame them for responding to magazine and customer criticism/feedback to improve and sell more cars.

I wouldn't spend time worrying about the new cars and just enjoy the car myself.

[Myfavedave]

I understand your frustration, but the positive is that more potential 2nd hand owners will now consider buying an Evora, where they might not have previously considered it due to quality issues reported in the media.

If more people are considering them, and discussing them, then there is more likely to be a buyer for your car if you choose to sell.

Every cloud has a silver lining and all that...

[Al]

Between the press launch in the spring of 2009 and the release of customer cars in the September they made something like 120 changes before launch. (posts somewhere here) There was then a non stop ongoing upgrade programme that many of the early owners did in fact get fitted FOC and particularly if you had a problem with that particular part. Those were never listed or detailed to the best of my knowledge but ran to hundreds in an ongoing process.

To be fair to them and in general terms I think they have responded well to the complaints of earlier owners who became the extended test driver fleet. I am not saying I am happy that we got into that situation but they do seem to have been reasonably reactive. (Shame not more proactive before launch) Also as Andrew has said Porkers are updated continually. I remember delaying delivery of a Boxster S back in 03 to get the 04 spec cars as a myriad of small improvements were coming through. A year later a mate got yet another list of improvements inc. the slightly bigger engine.

Where would you draw the line? An owner of a 2009 car getting the improvements made to the final model run out car in 2015? I don't think so.

[mdavies]

Al,

As you say, "Where would you draw the line?"

For obvious reasons it is now in no ones interest to trawl again over the issues. In any case they have - mostly - been well discussed across many threads already. Also, remedial improvements to owners cars have been made in the " non stop ongoing upgrade programme" to which you refer.

The fundamental point is whether "the line"(s) were drawn in the correct place regarding a) the specification, and b) the build standard, of the Evora as first launched. I understand that there was pre-launch discussion in high places regarding these matters. It is my view that some decisions made were the wrong ones. This is not a matter of hindsight. I commented on key issues to a leading dealer during and immediately after one of the first test drives in one of the first demonstrators.

It is more than a shame that, as a consequence of those decisions, so much of the current PR and the Lotus statements regarding the cars now being produced have to emphasise the improvements now made. But, for the future of Lotus, I suppose it is unavoidable.

We live and learn.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

Al,

The fundamental point is whether "the line"(s) were drawn in the correct place regarding a) the specification, and b) the build standard, of the Evora as first launched. I understand that there was pre-launch discussion in high places regarding these matters. It is my view that some decisions made were the wrong ones. This is not a matter of hindsight. I commented on key issues to a leading dealer during and immediately after one of the first test drives in one of the first demonstrators.

We live and learn.

It's a tricky point... as one dealer once said to me "Some cars are born broken". Actually he was talking about Maserati's while trying to sell me an LE Evora which was a little ironic but you get the idea!

On one hand I'm really pleased 'New Lotus' are putting their hands up, taking responsibility for a whole bunch of issues and trying to make the car they should've done a few years ago. Likewise if I'd parted with my heard earned I'd be less than happy at some of the things that have come to light about the 'old' Evora.

I've been sitting on the fence for a long time but provided the car is up to spec I'm thinking of placing an order for the new car. It won't be until the New Year as I need to find the dosh, I had thought the arrival of the MY12 would ease me nicely into a MY10/11 car without too much pain but if Lotus really have improved the car as much as they say then it has to be done...

Edited September 14, 2011 by Stirling_Villeneuve

[Bibs]

Any brand new model of car is going to have issues, that shouldn't be a surprise. The Evora was developed with the sort of money Ford use to design an ashtray and in record time, I'm sure we all knew there's no way the LE cars would be perfect.

The only brand new car I've had was a Mini which was picked up on launch day from the Park Lane dealership, 14 recalls in the first year alone and that's without the warranty issues. It was one of the first 500 cars which we were assured was laser micrometer checked it was so perfect! Sometimes the real world with lots of miles driven is the only place you can find these problems realistically and as mentioned, it would be pretty foolish not to embark on a continuous improvement plan for any product if possible.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

Any brand new model of car is going to have issues, that shouldn't be a surprise. The Evora was developed with the sort of money Ford use to design an ashtray and in record time, I'm sure we all knew there's no way the LE cars would be perfect.

The only brand new car I've had was a Mini which was picked up on launch day from the Park Lane dealership, 14 recalls in the first year alone and that's without the warranty issues...

Agreed, Lotus probably more than most have always updated and improved theirs cars, the less kind might call it 'Doing your R&D in public' !

I've bought 2 brand new cars, the first one was a Honda Civic, the new shape with the funky dash, it's been fine and I think perhaps there's been a couple of recalls too. My second new car was a Lotus Elise R and... it's been utterly, totally amazing! One recall, ( I think ?)  and nothing needed doing, the car's not skipped a beat in 3 years now. Starts fist time, demists, air con's fine, no locking issues and nothing( important! ), has dropped off! Beyond that it drives like a dream and I'm utterly totally smitten even 3 years down the line which is probably why I've been so loathe to change it all this time.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Stirling_Villeneuve

[Bibs]

Drive a black MY12 Evora S with Sports Premium interior, don't take a cheque book

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

Drive a black MY12 Evora S with Sports Premium interior, don't take a cheque book

Damn right... although a deposit's too damn easy on the card!

BTW, any shots of Velvet Red? I'm hoping it's similar to the darker red McLaren use for the MP4-12C but it looks very dark on the Lotus site though, almost Burgundy.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Stirling_Villeneuve

[Justin182]

Lotus had to make these improvements, and it's good to see they have been listening to the press etc. The Evora wasn't selling well before (I don't think?) although saying that, I'm not sure these 140 minor points were the reasons for that.

I'm getting itchy feet with my Evora, and I'm pretty sure when I come to replace it, the first car I'll be trying is the MY12 SC, amongst others.

[sjrnoel]

Allan at 61k for my car I didnt intend to be a test driver when I purchased especially as it's the most expensive customer car Lotus had made at the time.

BMW, Porsche etc make a lot more cars and have bigger ranges than Lotus

I have only ever had 1 part for the car as an upgrade which was the towing hook and to be fair a ECU upgrade but only the result of a flat spot the car had. I waited just under 24 months for a replacement seat.

I have owned several models of Lotus cars over the last 20-25 years so i know the crack ....

My point was that Lotus should make the improvements available to existing owners at a reasonable cost and keep them informed.

I would like to see them offer a air box mod which would take the car easily to 300 Bph with the sports exhaust and a retrofit for the piece of poo called Alpine. Then those of us who are going to take a big hit in depreciation can keep and enjoy our cars further.

[Vulcan Grey]

The Esprits; 89, SE, S4, S4S, Sport 300, X180-R, GT3 each had some changes pretty much every year! Then a better model V8 came along, then the next year the V8 got a revised shifter and dash...

I don't think the people who bought any of those models were marching back down to Lotus demanding that Lotus stop improving!

That's the way it goes... Anyone who noticed that they kept adding special models and more power to the Elise and Exige through the years, should have known that they should wait if they wanted something more than the LE Evora...

Many of the improvements are not easy to change, like the revised shift cables, or the dash leather. You going to have Lotus take the whole car apart to put those things in?

Edited September 16, 2011 by Vulcan Grey

[mdavies]

Steve, re your "air box mod which would take the car easily to 300 Bph with the sports exhaust", I expect you are aware of the posts about the Radium kit?

I don't suppose I am the only one tracking that, and if Lotus could approve it (I have posted suggestions) or provide something similar, they would do themselves a power of good amongst current owners. It would show that their outlook and spirit has not become entirely focused on the "new breed" of future potential buyers. To be fair, the recent model announcements have already helped a lot in this respect, but your suggestion would get a gold star! From you and I anyway!

[oastbloke]

Steve,

I've got a my10 Evora so I can sympathise with your views (although I think I've probably had more parts replaced over the last 18 months).

Whilst I absolutely agree with the "where does the line get drawn" arguement, for me the issue is a lack of demonstrated care to existing owners from the PR office. Again as pointed out above, some of the existing evora owners are likely to become the test team for the elan etc. So surely worth keeping them on side?

I guess I would expect less of a "retail" attitude (ie sell and forget) from a niche manufacturer who is going to need to keep getting repeat sales from a small-ish group of customers for some time yet.

Small things go a long way in managing customer sentiment and need not cost real money. Apart from one survey I have received no comunication from the factory (not sure how I would have responded to an upsell!!), I'm sure there's a reason Audi et al send those daft magazines to customers. How about offering existing owners the new headunit at cost? By definition wouldn't cost Lotus any money, but I'd be interested in seeing the impact on the mood of existing owners.

Come on DB you are meant to be an ace marketeer. Unfortunately you are meeting my professional view of marketeers - good at spending money, but often forget it's normally lots cheaper to keep a customer rather than win a new one.

Peter.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

Agreed... It's important not only for existing owners but folks thinking of getting onboard with new cars now. We all need to feel like we're being taken care of, if we are I think the vast percentage would be in for the long haul too. That new Elan still looks like the best of the bunch to me but we all need to be looked after between now and 2017!

Edited September 16, 2011 by Stirling_Villeneuve

[sjrnoel]

Mike, i think i have to wait until Sept 5th next year then the Radium gets purchased, Alpine gets binned then its all good to go.

Peter like you I've had many parts replaced to be honest i don't have an issue with this. My point is to Lotus... don't just ditch existing customers because you are chasing a "new breed" and also don't forget your dealers and independents who have done much to make the name it is.

I don't want to sit in a plush Jaguar type showroom i want to talk to people who understand the brand, the car and its customers. i want to know i can get that tweak here and get that tweak there to improve what i have.

I did 150k miles in my Excel and it got better year on year until it went.

If DB wants to turn Lotus into a Porsche then its simple i will just go and buy one because they have been doing what they do a lot better and longer than Lotus have.

[koorby]

My local Lotus dealer will be fitting my Radium CAI. They 'approved' the part unofficially and I would prefer that they fit it and re-oil the K&N every 10K, rather than me outsource it to a 3rd party mechanic. Check with your local dealer, link them to the Radium blog, and if they value your custom, they will help you out. For exhaust I am just going with the factory Level 1 silencer.

Back on topic: I purchased my MY11 NA IPS a few weeks ago, and seriously considered waiting for an MY12 instead, but there is a four month waiting period for MY12 cars to Australia, and the truth is that the MY11 cars had been getting most of the MY12 upgrades slowly fitted to them on the production line so I have a near-MY12 car anyway, given it was built in August 2011.

Plus the fact that this car had every single possible option fitted and I got a very good deal, helped a bit also.

The only thing I am stuck with is the abyssmal Alpine head unit, but replacing it with somethng else is a simple wallet exercise at a car audio shop. Also there is a new 2-Din head unit coming from a US company in July where you just click in your iPhone 3/4 and it becomes the radio/nav/music/BT-phone unit.

[mdavies]

John, by the "factory level 1 silencer" do you mean the standard one or the sports silencer? (Dealer fit, about £800 sterling equivalent, made by Janspeed, I believe) Either way I'd be very interested to hear your comments on the Radium CAI. Will you have the chance to try the car before the CAI is fitted, so as to assess the difference?

[koorby]

I own the car, so I know what it sounds like

By Level 1 Silencer I mean the Lotus factory, dealer fitted Sports Exhaust. They can only fit Level 1 to IPS cars, not the Level 2.