Nordschleife pile-up!

[Bibs]

Ouch, now that looks expensive...

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=24438

[ramjet]

Aren't there rules or guidelines about distance from others etc or only overtaking when the person in front is aware you are there?

[Bibs]

At the 'Ring? It's a lawless place... overtaking on both sides, huge disparities in performance. Also, someone will be paying personally for the track damage, track downtime, recovery, everything!

[rogerch]

Rule of thumb, the more accessible you make something, the more idiots you find in it.

The other issue is speed differential, it's what makes free practice days so dangerous, saloons and single seaters don't mix for the same reasons.

I've always wanted to have a go round there, I've just gone off the idea.

[Billy111S]

Over taking is only on the left.

"the track was in the process of being repaired" really? sounds odd.

My advice is leave the ego in the cafe, keep an eye on the rear view and yield to anyone closing in on you fast. Make your own space and there's plenty of fun to be had.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Billy111S

[Bibs]

Over taking is only on the left.

I know people who've been overtaking by someone doing 120mph on the grass they were so desperate to get past (on the right, yes as someone was already overtaking them on the left)!

[oneshot]

Think you will find that it is classed as a one way unrestricted toll road and the normal rules of the road apply (at least that's what my brother translated from the German instructions). Means that cars must be roadworthy and road legal. That's what will be used when determining fault.

As for speed disparities, when we were getting off there was a 53 seat coach just going on - imagine coming up on that round a blind corner!

[Billy111S]

I know people who've been overtaking by someone doing 120mph on the grass they were so desperate to get past (on the right, yes as someone was already overtaking them on the left)!

Refer to picture at top!?

[Black Sport 160]

Is that one of the 'Ring Taxis in the Armco?

[Bibs]

Yup. That's a monster fast part of the track, close to it's lowest point too.

[B1 RMA]

Guess I'll have to keep practicing on the PS3 then

[rogerch]

The irony is,,,,,,,,,, there's a blonde bird can get a Transit van round there faster than most of those guys.

[Bibs]

Well, not really. The ring taxi will be doing around 8 minutes, Sabine just about managed under 10 in the transit.

[rogerch]

Well, not really. The ring taxi will be doing around 8 minutes, Sabine just about managed under 10 in the transit.

The ring taxi has a driver, the rest are questionable.

[Bibs]

All of the cars in the picture are performance related cars, expensive ones too. It's not like it's an SUV, estate or lukewarm hatch there.

That's a sweeping and incorrect statement from you for a change. You need balls of steel and a lot of experience to take a 911 turbo or Z-06 around the 'Ring. Even the E36 M3 has a full cage, it's not their first lap...

[Scotty C]

this explains a lot.

http://www.bridgetogantry.com/2/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=301%3Awhy-did-the-8-car-pile-up-happen&catid=55%3Atouristenfahrten&Itemid=300088

[rogerch]

All of the cars in the picture are performance related cars, expensive ones too. It's not like it's an SUV, estate or lukewarm hatch there.

That's a sweeping and incorrect statement from you for a change. You need balls of steel and a lot of experience to take a 911 turbo or Z-06 around the 'Ring. Even the E36 M3 has a full cage, it's not their first lap...

The bank balance to afford such cars is not a guarantee of common sense. I used to refer to the Ferrari Club as the epitome of "More money than sense".

As for balls of steel, you don't, not on what is ostensibly a public road, you need discipline, application and focus.

That's how you drive fast and give yourself the best chance of staying alive.

[ramjet]

So does a crash imply they are all bad drivers then? By that reckoning, the following are crap drivers:

Sebastian Vettel

Mark Webber

Lewis Hamilton

Peter Brock

Craig Lowndes

You can't make a broad brush statement like that Roger.

[rogerch]

No, I can make a broad brush statement like that based based on experience.

The drivers you mention were / are all professional racing drivers and any accidents you have knowledge of happened on a race track, driving professionally prepared racing cars to the limit.

Not on a piece of road available to the public in his privately owned or hired road car.

Motor racing is dangerous, the uninitiated racing around a 14 mile track, which is too long to memorise, with too few marshalling points, is probably more dangerous, now add the "Big Balls" element and you have an accident waiting to happen.

I used to sit on the CAMS board of management. Emotion, ego, arrogance, or plain stupidity, do not belong in the cockpit. Poorly prepared cars, un-setup cars, do not belong on the track, nor the road if you intend to drive fast.

"The successful ones are always clinical" Jackie Stewart.

You can minimise the risks, but only by using the brain, not the hart.

[Bibs]

Bliss...

[rogerch]

To make light of safety is not a concept I find rational.

[Scotty C]

Roger there goes your your theory about professional racing drivers, 9.50 onwards.

@ 10.30 mins - taxi driver crashes into the back of about 3 cars inc the hired corvette.

Ive done about 70 laps or so at the ring and never seen anything as stupid as the place the workmen have placed there sign, cones.

[rogerch]

The question surely is, "Were the drivers warned before entering the circuit ?"

I'm not privy to the answer, but it is a public road.

I commented above about too few marshalling points, I personally have always had an aversion to driving over blind brows or blind corners at high speed without knowing what is the other side, that's why motor sport has marshals.

Now if someone with more ambition than ability wants to go thrashing round there in a high performance car, it's their prerogative, right up to where they involve some else in their accident.

None of which means professional drivers cannot make mistakes, but some are more professional than others.

It's a public road.

[mangel]

There is extensive discussion on Piston heads on this plus a friend of mine works at the ring for a large motor manufacturer.

1 person was injured in the crash and detained in hospital, they were in a ring Taxi which collided with other vehicles which were stationary at the scene of a previous accident.

In addition there were barrier reconstruction works being undertaken in the are of the accident. These works were indicated on the notification board at the entry to the Toll road and there were notification notices placed approaching the works.

The current debates are whether the signage was sufficient and whether it was placed early enough down the road.

Unfortunately by publicising this it is drawing precisely the kind of attention which the owners of the 'ring' do not want or need as it give the H & S mob more ammo. At the end of the day, either here or any Track event you pays your insurance and you takes your chance. Any form of Motorsport is dangerous and to be honest most of us would not be interetsed if there wasn't some element of risk!!

There are a million arm chair pilots out there who will pass opinion on a topic like this which are generally more damaging than informative.

i would finish by saying that the incident is underinvestogation by the police as it is not designated as a race track and having had some experience they will be spreading the fines liberally amongst those involved.

[TBD]

By coincidence there is an interesting article about the ring on Spiegel Online (in German). Quiet interesting, but the track is apparently much safer than most people think.

Tourist drivers do about 250.000 laps every year. After no deaths in 2009 and 2010 there were two dead in 2011.